August 27, 2014, 09:28:36 PM

Author Topic: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera  (Read 11256 times)

pj1974

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2013, 01:38:53 AM »
This is one area where I feel APS-C photographers ARE literally "spoiled for choice" these days; that is there are many great options when looking for ultra wide angle (UWA) zooms.    ;)

While the OP stated that a zoom isn't necessarily needed, it was also stated that would be considered.  I would suggest a zoom. I'm also an outdoor person, and landscapes are some of my favourite photos to take. (I strongly dislike fisheye!) I've felt that the flexibility of a zoom does help in composition - and a few mm either side makes a lot of difference at these ultra wide angles.

Obviously there is lens to lens variation and QC, but I've done a lot of researching - and my own real world testing of UWAs... and am providing the below as some assistance to the OP.   :D

There are several options I'd recommend.
Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 sharp and particularly good if one enjoys low light (and particularly astro / night photography)
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/379-tokina_1116_28_canon?start=1

Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 as a good OEM option (as Neuro suggested, a 2nd hand would fit budget)
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/174-canon-ef-s-10-22mm-f35-45-usm-test-report--review?start=1

Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 as a great UWA lens all round - good IQ and one of the best value. It's slightly slower than the Canon, but for most landscapes that's not a huge issue
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/307-sigma-af-10-20mm-f4-56-hsm-ex-dc-lab-test-report--review?start=1

Actually what verysimplejason wrote below is incorrect and not backed up by any data or research.
or Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 Ex Dc Hsm.  Make sure it's F3.5.  The other one isn't that good.
The Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 is actually sharper at the wide setting (and most focal lengths) than the Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5.

Compare the analysis of both Sigma 10-20mm lenses here (in Nikkor format, as Photozone hasn't reviewed the f/3.5 in APS-C Canon mount):
http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/467-sigma_1020_35_nikon?start=1
http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/308-sigma-af-10-20mm-f4-56-dc-ex-hsm-lab-test-report--review?start=1
Tests (& user reviews - also those who have purchased later f/3.5 versions) at SLR report the same, ie that the Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 is sharper at most focal lengths (with the f/3.5 having noticeably softer corners in particular - not just the decentering issue, though to be fair some f/4.5-5.6 lenses also had decentering issues):
Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/171/cat/31 being sharper than
Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5 http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1250/cat/31

The only downside of the Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 is CA at 10mm. However thankfully automated post processing can get rid of that very well, so easily.

If I were buying lenses today, perhaps the option I would go with is the Sigma 8-16mm (the widest in its class) which has received good reviews - but a bit more expensive (so you might need to look for a 2nd half / refurbed model)    :)
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/515-sigma816f4556apsc?start=1
http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/1330/cat/31

There are other options, like the older Tokina 12-24mm f/4 (not bad) and Tamron AF 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 (not the best), etc, etc, etc - but I'd recommend the first one's I've listed. I definitely notice the difference between 10mm and 12mm, with wider being better.

As I also have the Canon 15-85mm (love this as an all purpose lens) - I don't need / use the Sigma as much as I used to when my 'wide' was 18mm on a kit zoom.  But I still do use the Sigma regularly for dedicated landscape, architecture and special effects.

I use my Sigma 10-20mm UWA lens at these settings the most: 10mm f/8 (usually at ISO100 or ISO400) where it consistently is shown to be a tad sharper than the Canon. The Sigma provides great results, I've taken thousands of photso with it. The Canon 10-22mm is a good lens - but I don't like the huge, weird lens hood and briefly a few other UWAs.  When I bought my UWA, there were not the later options of eg Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 or the Sigma 8-16mm.

Also, it is significant to note that UWA lenses for crop sensor DSLRs (ie APS-C cameras) are consistently sharper than their FF equivalents at the edges and particularly in the corners, (and especially so with lenses wide open). Even the higher end FF UWA lenses have noticeably softer edges & corners than what can be achieved on APS-C.  This is actually one significant reason I'm happy to use UWAs on APS-C cameras.

As I started my post with... we are really spoiled for choice in this segment.  8)

Best wishes for your purchase, let us know how you go!

Paul   ;)
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yakman

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2013, 01:48:19 AM »
Get a EOS M + EF M 22/F2. The combo itself is cheaper than any lens mentioned above?
If you're happy with EF-S 10-22, EF-M 11-22 IS seems be better and cheaper as well.
Taking this option you gets better resolution, better ISO.
For landscape on crop, EOS M should be more than just capable?
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AprilForever

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2013, 02:12:16 AM »
I just took the plunge and ordered myself the new 70d upgrading from a 450d. I also bought the EF 35mm f/2 (not the new one with IS) because I wanted a fast prime for general shooting to replace the 18-55mm kit lens that came with the 450d.

I am an outdoors person so I love to shoot landscapes so I have been looking for a good wide angle prime for this. After having the EF 35mm for a while, I would like to get a wide angle prime lens over a zoom. The wide aperture for shooting in low light or nighttime situations and the great amount of control over the depth of field. I don't need the flexibility of a zoom (however I am open to zoom recommendations) as landscapes are more about composition than framing (and you can always crop it later if you want). I am leaning away from a fisheye lens because of their distortion and if I were to use one I would end up correcting every image anyway. I would also like something that I could throw a rectangular ND Grad on for certain situations

Here is what I have found so far in my budget (<$700)

Right now i'm not sure what to go with. There doesn't seem to be very many options in the segment. I can't be the only one with this problem.

Tokina 11-16 2.8. You'll love it!!!
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verysimplejason

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2013, 02:20:30 AM »

Actually what verysimplejason wrote below is incorrect and not backed up by any data or research.
or Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 Ex Dc Hsm.  Make sure it's F3.5.  The other one isn't that good.
The Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 is actually sharper at the wide setting (and most focal lengths) than the Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5.


Granted, there are bad reviews for the Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 but I guess somebody agrees with me.  It might be that Sigma lenses especially the old lenses vary from one copy to another that's why I'll quote Roger on this:

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/wide-angle/sigma-10-20mm-f3.5-ex-dc-hsm-for-canon

To quote:

Quote
The Sigma 10-20 f/3.5 has a bit more distortion than the others but delivers very nice images and is also built much better than the Canon 10-22. It does everything well and probably is the best value of the bunch.

SwissBear

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2013, 03:02:24 AM »
If f/2.8 is important (astro/lowlight), then the tokina is the best choice, i bought recently the old version because the improvements are not worth the extra 200CHF (slightly better flare control, faster AF).
The canon is maybe a bit sharper, i'd get that if the speed is not that important.
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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2013, 04:16:37 AM »
I am also thinking about getting an UWA  lens for my 60D.

I really like the Tokina 11-16, and the 2.8 constant aperture is appealing.

However, given the low price of the EOS-M, I had a new idea  - around the same price I can by the EOS-M and 11-22mm 4.5-5. (I wanted to by the EOS-M body anyway, so it just one more reason to pull the trigger, plus you don't really need a quick AF for landscape.

I know it's not really comparable, but what do you guys think about that?

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cellomaster27

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2013, 06:05:38 AM »
I am currently traveling in Korea.. I bought my canon UWA 10-22mm a couple weeks ago and its been on my camera 95% of the time. Lots of tight spaces and tall buildings. The versatility that this lens gives is awesome! I use it at 10 or 12mm mostly but 17-22 for photos of people. Really anything 15 and below gives too much "stretching" of the edges for portraits. Excellent at 10mm for architecture, landscape but very usable at 17-22 for pictures of people! I can't recommend this lens more! I love it! And again, I have tried the sigma 10-20 f4-5.6 and tokina 11-16 before. :)

The canon is fast, versatile, sharp, and controls IQ quite well. Well, I should just say fantastic.
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verysimplejason

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2013, 06:21:29 AM »

Actually what verysimplejason wrote below is incorrect and not backed up by any data or research.
or Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 Ex Dc Hsm.  Make sure it's F3.5.  The other one isn't that good.
The Sigma 10-20mm f/4.5-5.6 is actually sharper at the wide setting (and most focal lengths) than the Sigma 10-20mm f/3.5.


Granted, there are bad reviews for the Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 but I guess somebody agrees with me.  It might be that Sigma lenses especially the old lenses vary from one copy to another that's why I'll quote Roger on this:

http://www.lensrentals.com/rent/canon/lenses/wide-angle/sigma-10-20mm-f3.5-ex-dc-hsm-for-canon

To quote:

Quote
The Sigma 10-20 f/3.5 has a bit more distortion than the others but delivers very nice images and is also built much better than the Canon 10-22. It does everything well and probably is the best value of the bunch.

Here's a comparison of Sigma 10-20 F3.5 and Sigma 10-20 F4-5.6 just to prove my point.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Compare-Camera-Lenses/Compare-lenses/(lens1)/756/(brand)/Sigma/(camera1)/0/(lens2)/842/(brand2)/Sigma/(camera2)/0/(lens3)/757/(brand3)/Sigma/(camera3)/0



tron

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2013, 06:27:10 AM »
Either a used 10-22 or a used 17-40 4L

For a crop I would prefer 10-22 (Actually I had it until it was stolen with my 40D and many other lenses)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 07:16:13 AM by tron »

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2013, 07:12:10 AM »
Here's one link about UWA lens comparison for APS-C sensors. http://www.juzaphoto.com/article.php?l=en&article=34. Personally, I would prefer the Canon 10-22mm lens on my cropped sensor bodies.
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bholliman

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2013, 07:22:21 AM »
given the low price of the EOS-M, I had a new idea  - around the same price I can by the EOS-M and 11-22mm 4.5-5. (I wanted to by the EOS-M body anyway, so it just one more reason to pull the trigger, plus you don't really need a quick AF for landscape).

+1

I have been thinking of adding an UWA zoom for landscapes.  I don't think I'll use it often so I dont want to spend much for it.  I was leaning toward a EF 17-40 4.0 to use on my 6D, but an EF-M 11-22 for my M will be cheaper and I assume similar IQ.  I haven't seen any detailed reviews or comparisons for the 11-22 yet.   But, the other EF-M lenses are excellent, so I assume the same for this one.  Canon claims it will have superior IQ than the already excellent EF-S 10-22 plus it has image stabilization!  Here is a link to the DP Review preview:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-efm-11-22-4-5p6-is-stm

Of course, I'm just looking at the cost of the lens, since I already have and EOS -M.  This option would only make sense for the OP if they were already inclined to buy an M.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2013, 08:53:03 AM by bholliman »
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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2013, 07:25:55 AM »
Either a used 10-22 or a used 17-40 4L

17mm isn't wide angle on crop, plus I wouldn't buy a 17-40L used right now - there are heavy Canon rebates, the used gear prices for L lenses are too high plus you might end up with a 8 year old lens if you didn't ask for the date code.

My advIice: f I would have decided to stay on crop, I'd have bought a Tokina 11-16 ... it isn't really a zoom given the short focal length difference, but it's f2.8 and relatively inexpensive esp. if you get the older mk1 that doesn't make much of a difference to the mk2 on the Canon mount. The advantage of the Canon 10-22 is the larger zoom range if you need that on an uwa & somewhat better flare resistance, but nothing dramatic.

Btw you can even use the Tokina on full frame on the 16mm end as a fixed wide angle lens, but it isn't really sharp in the corners.

tron

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2013, 07:28:06 AM »
Either a used 10-22 or a used 17-40 4L

17mm isn't wide angle on crop, plus I wouldn't buy a 17-40L used right now - there are heavy Canon rebates, the used gear prices for L lenses are too high plus you might end up with a 8 year old lens if you didn't ask for the date code.

My advIice: f I would have decided to stay on crop, I'd have bought a Tokina 11-16 ... it isn't really a zoom given the short focal length difference, but it's f2.8 and relatively inexpensive esp. if you get the older mk1 that doesn't make much of a difference to the mk2 on the Canon mount. The advantage of the Canon 10-22 is the larger zoom range if you need that on an uwa & somewhat better flare resistance, but nothing dramatic.

Btw you can even use the Tokina on full frame on the 16mm end as a fixed wide angle lens, but it isn't really sharp in the corners.
My post continued:

For a crop I would prefer 10-22 ...


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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2013, 07:53:07 AM »
Loved my 10-22 on a T2i and 7D.

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Re: Wide angle lens' for crop sensor camera
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2013, 08:35:16 AM »
I own both the 10-22 mm EFS and 17-40 mm L.
They are both excellent but I tend to favour the 17-40 mm for my own purposes.
The 17-40 mm isn't properly wide angle on a crop but it does focus blindingly fast (using centre AF point on my 550D).
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