September 03, 2014, 03:32:28 AM

Author Topic: Upgrading lenses  (Read 8218 times)

unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2040
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 11:41:59 PM »
Back in the 70s I used to shoot a lot of night high school football for small papers....Here is what I can recall...
You'll have to push the ISO to its limits to have any hope of catching any action. Learn to love noise.

Don't forget to tell the lab that you pushed the film.  Oh, and I think we called it grain back then...   :P

Hah! I was the lab, so it was more a question of: "Did I put the 1600 film in the left pocket of the camera bag and the 400 from earlier in the day in the right pocket or was it the other way around?"

And yes, it was grain and yes, 1600 was about the most you could hope for from Tri-X, and it was ASA not ISO. (Never have figured out why they felt compelled to change that one.)

Now you know why I laugh at people who whine because they can see some noise when they shoot at 6400.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 11:41:59 PM »

EOBeav

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 404
    • View Profile
    • My Landscape Photoblog
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 12:12:54 AM »
The 55-250 just won't cut it - especially at night. In order to freeze action in a football game, f/2.8 would be the least that you need. You'd also most likely need to boost the ISO of your XSi even if you're using a f/2.8 lens.

If the criteria is "light", and maybe budget - I'd go for a Canon 300mm f4 IS. This would be great for birding and for football games. The weight is actually light in comparison to the 300 f/2.8 version of this lens. And also a lot cheaper...

As an XSi owner, I can tell you right now that f/4 isn't going to cut it, even at ISO 1600. You're just not going to be able to get enough shutter speed to really freeze the action like you need to. Plus, let's face it, Rebels aren't exactly known for their high ISO performance...
In landscape photography, when you shoot is more important than where.

Gear: Canon 5DmkII, 17-40mm f/4 L, 50mm f/1.4, 70-200mm f/4.

KBX500

  • Guest
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2011, 02:02:48 AM »

So, did you make it out to a game this last weekend ? How did it go ?

You may want to consider a monopod to help support and stabilize your rig.

TBenson

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2011, 09:00:27 AM »
You may want to consider a monopod to help support and stabilize your rig.

+1.  The big lenses recommended here on the forum are heavy may feel off-balance when connected to a light-weight XSi.

Meanwhile, any tips on using the 55-250 for football?

I have the same gear that you own, and enjoy shooting sports (kids' lacrosse) and wildlife. There's a lot going for the 55-250, but I too saved my pennies toward a better lens. In the meantime, I got used to using a monopod, switched to shooting only RAW, and found out how to make the most of the noise-reduction features in ACR.  At the first few games I learned where to position myself to catch the best action, tried to remember also to take human interest photos (players on sidelines, excited fans, exasperated coaches, etc.), and experimented with different autofocus modes & whether to use IS or not.

So, try different things. Consider the first couple of games be for testing so you won't take it too seriously, and  have fun with it as you learn.

Edwin Herdman

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2011, 03:33:40 PM »
135mm f/2 sounds like a good choice.

If there was an f/2 70-200 that'd be an even better choice, but of course you'd need a tripod for such a lens.  It'd probably be comparable (or heavier) than the Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8, which may be a perfect lens for such an application if the f/2.8 aperture is wide enough.

Nikon actually made a 300mm f/2 ED years back, but it's very rare and won't be as sharp as newer lenses.
Essenially get the best gear you can afford or beg borrow and steal (or rent) it.   

I generally shoot +1/3 ISO 3200, Tv at 1/200, and end up at f2.8-4. Oh and i have a 580EX II set to M 1/64 for just a little fill.

That photo doesn't grab me...let's see: color balance seems like it could be off (unless it's a dry field...well, that wouldn't be too surprising), too much depth of field and too cluttered to find the real focus point of the picture, and flash probably isn't something the players appreciate.  (But I'm anti-flash in general.)  And if that was shot wide open, it's a definite sign that 70-200mm can be too wide a field of view and not wide enough an aperture.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 03:36:53 PM by Edwin Herdman »

cheeseheadsaint

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2011, 10:14:14 PM »
I went to the game yesterday! =D Honestly it was the first high school football game I ever went so it was really fun in general. For photography, it was very very frustrating. I swapped between the 55-250mm and the nifty fifty.. The tele for the game and the nifty fifty for our non existence half time due the rain(but that allowed me some shots of cheerleaders and standing players)

Anyways, having a sharp picture was so rare with the 55-250mm(faster shutter speeds ended up with dark pics =( ). but at least I had.. eh.. better than what I anticpated.

Enough talk here's the best action(aka while the game was seriously going on) pic with the tele:


and that is after sharpening so... xD

Edit: sorry about the copyright, only small pic I had uploaded. also planning to use these pics as leverage to gain a press pass instead of hiding behind the yearbook press XD


Exif:
Camera:   Canon EOS Digital Rebel XSi
Lens:   171 mm
Exposure:   Manual exposure, 1/64 sec, f/5.6, ISO 1600
Flash:   Off, Did not fire
Date:   October 7, 2011   7:45:56PM (timezone not specified)
(23 hours, 31 minutes, 18 seconds ago, assuming image timezone of US Pacific)


and this was all handheld. I don't have a monopod......yet.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 10:23:11 PM by cheeseheadsaint »
Canon Rebel XSi, kit lens, 50mm f1.8, ef-s 55-250mm IS, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 6D

cheeseheadsaint

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2011, 10:28:55 PM »
and now I am reconsidering whether the next thing I get.. should it be a lens? or should I upgrade the body so I can use higher ISOs? Which would get me farther with the shutter speed? (Thanks to Hillsilly for bringing this up) extra ISO or the smaller f-stops? The camera I would be looking at would be the 7D then..
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 11:11:13 PM by cheeseheadsaint »
Canon Rebel XSi, kit lens, 50mm f1.8, ef-s 55-250mm IS, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 6D

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2011, 10:28:55 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 8490
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2011, 11:55:47 PM »
I'd go for a faster lens rather than a newer body.  I have a 7D, and ISO 3200 in low light is marginal and noisy at best.  My 5D MK II can do ISO 3200, but i'd prefer to keep lower ISO as well.  You can always upgrade the body, but a f/2 prime will give you a much bigger advantage than the same $ spent on a new body.

Look at the focal lengths used for your best images, and rent or borrow a prime lens.  You really want f/2 or even faster.

This image was taken with my 7D in Raw at ISO 4000, 85mm @f/1.8, 1/320 sec.  I had to use a ton of NR on it, and there is not much detail left.




cheeseheadsaint

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2011, 10:15:44 AM »
Just out of curiosity, the noise level when the XSi is at ISO 1600 is comparable to what noise level on the 7D?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 01:20:13 AM by cheeseheadsaint »
Canon Rebel XSi, kit lens, 50mm f1.8, ef-s 55-250mm IS, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 6D

cheeseheadsaint

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2011, 07:30:25 PM »
And another pic from the football game:


Also back to the suggestion of monopods, anyone know a specific model that is cheap and sturdy?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 07:56:50 PM by cheeseheadsaint »
Canon Rebel XSi, kit lens, 50mm f1.8, ef-s 55-250mm IS, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 6D

dr croubie

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1398
  • Too many photos, too little time.
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2011, 08:10:34 AM »
Just out of curiosity, the noise level when the XSi is at ISO 1600 is comparable to what noise level on the 7D?
http://the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-7D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx has a bit of info, scroll down to the Kodak Colour Control Patches image and you can compare noise between the 7D and 500D, and then http://the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-Rebel-T1i-500D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx you can compare the 500D to 450D.
Frankly, I can't tell much difference, iso1600 on the 7D is a tiny bit better than on the 450/500D, which still look cleaner than 3200 on the 7D, and using in-between-stops isn't worth it imho.

DxoMark also compares ISO, but it just lists the "useful" ISO of a 7D as limited to 854. the 450D tops out at 692 (by simple maths, that gives iso1600 on a 450D the same as iso2000 on 7D).
Too much gear, too little space.
Gear Photos

Old Shooter

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
  • Never met a gadget I didn't like!
    • View Profile
Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2011, 04:14:21 AM »
Looking at your lineman shot... Only their upper bodies are sharp because there is relatively little motion occuring there... Even their feet are blurry because 1/60th of a second won't freeze much...  If you had a f/2.8 lens you could have shot that at 1/250th... An f/2.0 would have allowed 1/500th... I think that's why people are steering you toward faster lenses versus a body that might just give you a single stop of ISO difference... I would also heed the advice to shoot in RAW and try to clean things up in post versus in-camera JPG processing...
5DIII, XSi, A2, 10s (x2), 20-35L, 24-70L II, 28-70L, 70-200L, 70-200L IS II, 85L II, 135L, 40 Pancake, 50 Macro, 100 Macro, 135 Soft-Focus, Crappy EF-S Kit Lens, 430EX II, Metz 45 CL-4, Metz 60 CT-4 (x2), White Lightnings, and lots of other junk...

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Upgrading lenses
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2011, 04:14:21 AM »