September 22, 2014, 08:14:04 AM

Author Topic: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect  (Read 3536 times)

regnwaldo

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« on: October 18, 2013, 09:19:40 PM »
I seem to have made a mistake. I bought a 70D.
I mostly photograph birds with a 500mm lens and 1/500 sec exposure or faster, formerly with  5D Mk II with no sign of this problem. Normally an out-of-focus point should degenerate to a circle representing the round lens aperture (see honeyeater pic). However, with the 70D, a large proportion of the images develop a diagonal streaking in the bg.(subsequent pics). It appears that part of the image is isolated (face recognition/image stabilization ??) and inserted into a replicated bg. In one instance the bird's beak was replicated, in a 1/750 second shot. This renders the camera unfit for lf lenses. People awaiting the release of a 7D Mk II should note this, for unless rectified it could perhaps be found also in that camera.

It could be that the DIP defect only occurs with long focal length lenses. It has never happened with over 9000 photos using the 5D Mk II with 500mm but has happened with about 1 in 5 of 800 shots with this lens on the 70D. I have not used the 70D yet with shorter fl lenses.

Should you hear of the matter or its resolution please log it here. I will do the same after I've returned the camera to Canon for evaluation.

canon rumors FORUM

70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« on: October 18, 2013, 09:19:40 PM »

candc

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2013, 10:03:07 PM »
That looks like camera movement to me. It might be a problem with the cameras shutter mechanism releasing to late. The 70d has a bit of a clicky shutter button that is not the smoothest. If its releasing to late you will see that, just like a bad rigger on a gun causes that same thing to happen, I don't think its a processing problem

regnwaldo

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2013, 05:07:47 AM »
That looks like camera movement to me. It might be a problem with the cameras shutter mechanism releasing to late. The 70d has a bit of a clicky shutter button that is not the smoothest. If its releasing to late you will see that, just like a bad rigger on a gun causes that same thing to happen, I don't think its a processing problem

Not simply movement. The bird is unaffected. The images have been oddly processed in some way. The birds seem more or less separate from a bg with repeated detail.

Lichtgestalt

  • Guest
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2013, 05:10:32 AM »
I seem to have made a mistake. I bought a 70D.
I mostly photograph birds with a 500mm lens and 1/500 sec exposure or faster, formerly with  5D Mk II with no sign of this problem. Normally an out-of-focus point should degenerate to a circle representing the round lens aperture (see honeyeater pic). However, with the 70D, a large proportion of the images develop a diagonal streaking in the bg.(subsequent pics). It appears that part of the image is isolated (face recognition/image stabilization ??) and inserted into a replicated bg. In one instance the bird's beak was replicated, in a 1/750 second shot. This renders the camera unfit for lf lenses. People awaiting the release of a 7D Mk II should note this, for unless rectified it could perhaps be found also in that camera.

what makes you think this is a common problem with all 70D?


ps. it´s best to upload images that are not stripped of all the EXIF data.
when you have a problem any information can be helpfull.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 05:25:19 AM by Lichtgestalt »

candc

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 527
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2013, 05:48:34 AM »
the birds and the leaves around them look blurred also. the more distant the object the more movement will show. if you still had the camera you could put it on a tripod and turn off the IS and see if this still shows, if not then it is more likely a physical problem either with the shutter releasing with a slight delay after you  push the button or maybe a problem with the IS momentarily stopping or something.

you mentioned face detection, was this shot in live view? it could be a lot of things, strange things happen but i don't think its a widespread problem. i have a 70d and have been using it with a variety of lenses and have not seen anything abnormal.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 06:02:13 AM by candc »

AvTvM

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 950
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2013, 06:40:24 AM »
to my eye, all the pics are blurred due to some form of camera shake/not short enough shutter speds. All of the birds are blurred too. None of these images would have been a keeper, irrespective of the indeed strangely streaked backgrounds. 

I guess, shake was simply more than what the IS could handle and that led to some  strange results.
There is a limit to the effectiveness of every IS system. 

Unless many other users report the same issue with their 70Ds, I see this as "user error" or shooting circumstancs [too much wind?, not solid enough tripod or ground it was standing on?]  .... possibly in combination with some problem with this individual camera (or its settings).
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 06:45:02 AM by AvTvM »

Orangutan

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 694
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2013, 09:15:55 AM »
to my eye, all the pics are blurred due to some form of camera shake/not short enough shutter speds. All of the birds are blurred too.

I agree, the birds look blurred too: look at the spots on IMG_8685.JPG.  It does not appear to be a processing error to me, it looks like camera movement.  When I first acquired a 100-400 I had a few shots similar to this on my 60D, and it turned out I needed to use a faster shutter.

"Inherent technical error of the entire 70D fleet" should be last on the list of possible causes.  I'd troubleshoot like this:

* Rule out user error (full-camera shake) by testing on tripod with remote release or timer
* Rule out faulty mirror/shutter mechanism by using live view with zoom (and tripod with remote)
* If you still see the problem, then call Canon for service

For your test target, I would choose an inanimate (non-moving) object, and don't use flash.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2013, 09:15:55 AM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14458
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2013, 09:21:00 AM »
All you people and your reasonable suggestions.  Don't you get that it's more fun to blame Canon and cry, "RECALL!!!"

 ::)
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Pi

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
    • View Profile
    • Math and Photography
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2013, 09:31:55 AM »
Looks more as a lens problem than a camera one. #2 has very little motion blur but very noticeable diagonal one. Did you use a filter?

It might be also some weird lens/sensor interaction but you should first put another lens on the 70D.

BTW, you images are so fuzzy that the 70D provides no real advantage for reach.

thenickdude

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2013, 09:55:14 AM »
That's exactly the effect you see if there's an object really close to the end of the lens, like grass in front of the lens. It causes an image of that object to appear in all of the bokeh in the background.

For example, in this photo of mine, my release cable inadvertently crossed in front of my lens, you can see a perfect image of it in every point of bokeh.

You might also see this effect by using a crappy UV filter on your lens. It definitely would not be the camera's fault.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 09:57:10 AM by thenickdude »

Famateur

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2013, 12:01:33 PM »
The birds look blurred to me, too.

That's exactly the effect you see if there's an object really close to the end of the lens, like grass in front of the lens. It causes an image of that object to appear in all of the bokeh in the background.

For example, in this photo of mine, my release cable inadvertently crossed in front of my lens, you can see a perfect image of it in every point of bokeh.

You might also see this effect by using a crappy UV filter on your lens. It definitely would not be the camera's fault.

Astute observation. Thanks for posting, and it makes sense -- like using a cardboard cutout over the lens to create custom shaped bokeh, only accidentally with grass, branches, release cables or other things in the extreme foreground.

I've been saving up for a 70D, so reports of issues and flaws are on my radar (like when MichaelTheMaven? had a row of dead pixels on his 70D sensor). In my other "shooting" hobby, it's generally good practice to wait until a new model has been out a year or more to establish a reputation for reliability or to reveal any issues inherent to the new design. Since the 70D uses brand new sensor tech, it kinda falls into that category for me (although, I don't think I'll be able to wait a year :)).

Anyway, it's nice to know this "issue" is likely not a camera issue.

Thanks again!

Famateur

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2013, 12:03:57 PM »
Oh, and welcome to the forum, TheNickDude! :D

Pi

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
    • View Profile
    • Math and Photography
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2013, 12:04:46 PM »
Anyway, it's nice to know this "issue" is likely not a camera issue.

It may not be but we do not know it yet.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2013, 12:04:46 PM »

Famateur

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 264
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2013, 02:52:14 PM »
Anyway, it's nice to know this "issue" is likely not a camera issue.

It may not be but we do not know it yet.

True enough.

TheNickDude's explanation seems most plausible to me, though, so while it might not be 100% confirmed (yet), it still falls into the "likely" category in my opinion. That's enough for me to not worry too much about this issue when considering a 70D purchase. Others may feel differently...

mountain_drew

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2013, 03:20:41 PM »
I have not used the 70D yet with shorter fl lenses.


First step of troubleshooting : isolate the problem. Try the camera with other lenses first.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 70D Diagonal Image Processing (DIP) Defect
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2013, 03:20:41 PM »