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Author Topic: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?  (Read 4052 times)

Vivid Color

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2013, 07:03:44 PM »
I would never presume to speak for all women, but as an almost 57 year-old woman (so not of the "current generation") who grew up in a home of modest means, and who loves a bargain as much as anyone, I'll share my perspective: Regarding the 5D: just don't go there. Buy your sister a new camera. We're not talking a vintage camera for a collector. We're talking about your sister who'd like a DSLR. And, you already know that your sister would not want to receive a second hand camera, so why are you still thinking about it? (Are you thinking about what you'd want rather than what your sister would like?) If for no other reason, you should give her a new camera so it will have a warranty. If the 5D breaks down, she'll have nothing. OK, I guess even broken cameras can be sold for parts, but she's still out a camera. If she asked you what SHE should BUY, then you could suggest a second hand camera. Or if she had hinted she wanted a 5D. But, you're giving her a surprise gift. And, in this case, I personally think giving your sister a used camera would be a really really bad surprise. In answer to your question about how I'd feel if I knew nothing about cameras and got a used one: To put it bluntly, I'd be WTF? I know they say it's the thought that counts but I'd likely interpret your thinking as strange at best. And, that would be in a calm moment of reflection after I had privately burst into tears. By your own statements, you've pretty much said the 5D is aligned with your preferences, not your sister's. Such a gift would not show that your valued your sister or her preferences. (To be clear, I'm not saying all second hand surprise gifts are wrong--some may be treasured--it all depends on the circumstances and I'm going on the circumstances as described by the OP.) Some final thoughts: if you want to make this about what your sister would like, then make sure you can return the camera for something else if it proves to be bigger or heavier than she expected or not ergonomically a good fit. Giving your sister a DSLR is a very thoughtful and generous gift. And, I commend you for being so generous. I just don't want you to mess it up. :)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 07:28:01 PM by Vivid Color »

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2013, 07:03:44 PM »

Northstar

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2013, 07:37:27 PM »
But I know my sister won't take to kindly to being given an ebay camera for xmas..

That's your answer right there. Generally, it's bad form to give a used gift unless your finances are really tenuous or the recipient specifically requests a used item.

+1
Spot on advice...done.
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adhocphotographer

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2013, 10:41:11 PM »
.
First, if I didn't know anything about cameras, why would I want a DSLR?

To learn! :) She likes taking pictures on her P&S and wants to make the jump to DLSR....  obviously she knows very little about them.

To all : Thanks for the input, i think i will get her a new xxxD and then let her choose her own way! :)
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Taemobig

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2013, 11:28:55 PM »
How about a mirrorless camera? Might be less intimidating than a DSLR for her.
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Botts

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2013, 11:34:18 PM »
How about a mirrorless camera? Might be less intimidating than a DSLR for her.
If you read above it looks like she specifically requested DSLR.
I'd seriously consider a 60D. http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03305/Canon-EOS-60D-price.html

It's pretty similar in cost to a T4i or T5i and a beefier body with better speed and quality.  I find the heftier body is a selling point for everyone who has already decided they want to go to DSLR.  The 60D also has two control dials which are immensely helpful in manual vs the hold Av button and spin wheel option on the xxxD/Txi models.

Add a 18-55 or an 18-200 and you have a great starter kit.  Adding a 40STM is great too.

Personally, I think a crop is a good place to start, she'll learn to shoot just the same as she would with a 5D.  Then she can decide on her own later if FF is where she wants to go, and then whether or not she wants speed (5D3), or value (used 5D/5D2 or 6D).  She can then choose lenses that she wants for the FF.  For example, I hated the 35mm on crop, but love it on FF.
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Ruined

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2013, 12:00:59 AM »
How about a mirrorless camera? Might be less intimidating than a DSLR for her.
If you read above it looks like she specifically requested DSLR.
I'd seriously consider a 60D. http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03305/Canon-EOS-60D-price.html

It's pretty similar in cost to a T4i or T5i and a beefier body with better speed and quality.  I find the heftier body is a selling point for everyone who has already decided they want to go to DSLR.  The 60D also has two control dials which are immensely helpful in manual vs the hold Av button and spin wheel option on the xxxD/Txi models.

Add a 18-55 or an 18-200 and you have a great starter kit.  Adding a 40STM is great too.

Personally, I think a crop is a good place to start, she'll learn to shoot just the same as she would with a 5D.  Then she can decide on her own later if FF is where she wants to go, and then whether or not she wants speed (5D3), or value (used 5D/5D2 or 6D).  She can then choose lenses that she wants for the FF.  For example, I hated the 35mm on crop, but love it on FF.

I disagree with the 60D recommendation.  The T4i has a touchscreen which is immensely intuitive for a first time DSLR user.  Further, the focusing system on the T4i is more advanced than the one on the 60D, and the T4i has a more advanced image processing chip.  About the only major plus I'd give the 60D is a larger body for bigger lenses and a bit faster shutter speed, but I am not sure that would be an advantage here.

wickidwombat

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2013, 03:15:32 AM »
what about an eos-M
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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2013, 03:15:32 AM »

Hannes

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2013, 12:32:09 PM »
Just go for a 650D with kit lens or even a 100D, a 700D would probably be worth it for the better kit lens or get the STM kit lens separate. Like lots of people she'll probably want to do videos with her camera which will be difficult on the 5D I. If she is a beginner she will probably not like the idea of such a sizeable camera and find it too big. When she gets used to using a DSLR she'll probably see the point of upgrading. I would also +1 the suggestion of getting her a 40mm pancake so she gets in to the mindset straight away that DSLRs are meant to have the lens changed. Get her a lens hood as well and show her why it is a good idea to have one.

Ruined

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2013, 07:23:46 PM »
Just go for a 650D with kit lens or even a 100D, a 700D would probably be worth it for the better kit lens or get the STM kit lens separate. Like lots of people she'll probably want to do videos with her camera which will be difficult on the 5D I. If she is a beginner she will probably not like the idea of such a sizeable camera and find it too big. When she gets used to using a DSLR she'll probably see the point of upgrading. I would also +1 the suggestion of getting her a 40mm pancake so she gets in to the mindset straight away that DSLRs are meant to have the lens changed. Get her a lens hood as well and show her why it is a good idea to have one.

I agree with this, the 650D/700D with an STM lens, preferably the 18-135mm stm as that is a rather useful lens for video that doesn't have a superior version... 18-55 is bested by the 17-55 f/2.8 is usm.

Personally instead of the 40mm pancake I'd go with something like a 55-250 (stm if you can afford it as its a lot easier to handle than the non-stm, plus stm version image quality is far better), as 40mm is a bit weird of a focal length for aps-c plus the pancake though fun has better primes around the same focal length such as the 35 f/2 is usm or better yet for crop 28mm f/2.8 is usm.  The 55-250 will probably get more use though as it covers additional range beyond kit lens.  Then again the 28mm f/2.8 is usm is an ultra-sharp prime with image stabilization that is nearly as small as the pancake - but it is expensive! :) 55-250 is not.

re: suggestion eos-m; no popup flash, tiny lens selection, slow af - probably not best for a starter camera.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 07:32:08 PM by Ruined »

Menace

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2013, 12:31:34 AM »
Go with 650d - she'll appreciate the touch screen and the relatively smaller body size. I'd add a nifty fifty to the kit and offer a couple of coaching sessions whenever is ready for them.
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cayenne

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2013, 02:31:31 PM »
hi all,

My sister wants a DSLR (for a long time) and as a good brother i am going to surprise her with it for xmas (karma and all that). So I got a thinking....  If i were to start a fresh again, what would i do, knowing what i know now. I would pick up a used 5D (I)...  But I know my sister won't take to kindly to being given an ebay camera for xmas, nor will she appreciate the advantage it would have given her....  So, do I get her a 600/650d kit new, or a second hand 5D? Do i force my opinion upon her, or do i let her play with her xxxD and choose her own path? If you knew nothing about cameras, how would you feel getting a used present?

My first DSLR was the 5D3......depends on what you can afford, but buy the best you can afford for her.

cayenne

Skirball

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2013, 02:41:10 PM »
Get her an iPhone.  The dSLR is dead.

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Re: You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2013, 02:41:10 PM »