September 14, 2014, 10:02:59 PM

Author Topic: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?  (Read 7588 times)

JoeDavid

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« on: October 25, 2013, 10:41:05 PM »
I had an email exchange with someone in Canon USA marketing recently.  As a long time user of Canon equipment, I expressed my disappointment with Canon's lack of a high megapixel offering.  With the D800/E and now the Sony A7R, Canon is distinctly lacking in that area.  The response I got was troubling to me.  I'm paraphrasing but, basically, I was told that the person agreed with me but that high megapixel DLSRs was a "niche" market.  Personally I don't consider landscape, commercial, fine art, large group photography, etc... a niche market.  It is more of an enthusiast, semi-pro and pro market but a "niche" market?  I guess Canon USA also considers mirror-less bodies a niche market as well...

I had also pointed out that Canon was pricing camera bodies much more expensively than the competition.  The answer to that one was that the market would decide prices.  To me he was saying, buy somebody else's equipment, Canon doesn't care.  There are plenty more people out there willing to pay their prices.  I've been with Canon since they came out with the EOS mount back in '87 but it may finally be time for a change.

canon rumors FORUM

High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« on: October 25, 2013, 10:41:05 PM »

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1478
    • View Profile
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2013, 11:10:19 PM »
Was this an exchange of emails in official capacity or just a personal exchange?
5D3, 6D
16-35L, 24-70L II, 70-200L II, 100-400L, 50L, 85L II, 135L, 24TSE, 40, 100 macro, 600RT x 4
I have more photo gear than I need. The blame lies squarely with Canonrumors

bholliman

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 743
    • View Profile
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2013, 12:14:25 AM »
I don't have any problem with his comment on prices. Canon and every other company sets their prices based on the market.  Mainstream companies like Canon can price higher than the competition because of their brand recognition and reputation for high quality products.  Companies with less well regarded products historically like Sigma and Tampon must set their prices lower to attract buyers. If Sigma continues to produce excellent quality lenses, their reputation will continue to improve e and they will be able to charge premium prices as well.  Canon can only retain their premium pricing by continuing to me a leader in the industry and to maintain high quality. 
Bodies:  6D, EOS-M (22/2 and 18-55)
Lenses: Rokinon 14mm 2.8, 35mm 2.0 IS, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L IS Macro, 135mm 2.0L, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, Extenders: EF 1.4xIII, EF 2xIII ; Flash: ST-E3-RT, 600EX-RT (x3)

Ellen Schmidtee

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 441
    • View Profile
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2013, 01:39:08 AM »
The response I got was troubling to me.  I'm paraphrasing but, basically, I was told that the person agreed with me but that high megapixel DLSRs was a "niche" market.  Personally I don't consider landscape, commercial, fine art, large group photography, etc... a niche market.

It's niche in term of how many cameras Canon will sell, and how much profit Canon will make from it.

Mt Spokane Photography

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 8607
    • View Profile
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2013, 01:47:53 AM »
Many users who bought a D800 are selling it, it requires a knowledgeable photographer to get the best out of all those pixels, and real estate agents and casual users suddenly realize that they can't deal with the large files and go for something simpler.
 
That doesn't mean that more MP is bad, but its niche in that only photography pros or enthusiasts who are willing to learn and to deal with the large files will get the benefit.
 
I know a person who asked me if he should switch from his D800 to a 5D MK III.  He has a big investment in Nikon hardware and lenses.  I told him that he should stick with his Nikon simply because changing hardware will not make him a better photographer or make his images better.  He needs to learn to post process and edit to get the best out of his images, and needs to learn more about lighting.

Ricku

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 494
    • View Profile
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2013, 02:16:48 AM »
Well then, good thing I preordered the A7R. :D

It seems that Canon has lost their mind completely. High MP and mirrorless full frame is no more niche than the 1DX.

And it's not just about the high resolution. Canon has still to release a sensor with improved dynamic range and NO shadow banding.




« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 02:19:31 AM by Ricku »

Eldar

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1450
    • View Profile
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 02:27:02 AM »
One of the key reasons behind Canon's success in the DSLR market is their top end pro bodies, combined with extensive marketing. People buying consumer cameras have seen the flocks of pros with 1D bodies and white lenses. I believe Canon would be gambling with their position if they gave the top spot amongst the pros to one of the others.

I'm not sure resolution would be the most important for that though. If I had to choose between more pixles and DR/high ISO noise performance, I know what I would choose. But to be perceived as the top brand, Canon needs to support both (preferably combined).
5DIII, 1DX, 8-15/4L, 16-35 f4L IS, 24-70/2.8L II, 70-200/2.8L IS II, 70-300/4-5.6L IS, 200-400/4L IS 1.4x, Zeiss 15/2.8, 17/4L TS-E, Zeiss 21/2.8, 24/3.5L TS-E II, Sigma 35/1.4 Art, Zeiss Otus 55/1.4, 85/1.2L II, 100/2.8L IS Macro, Zeiss 135/2, 600/4L IS II

canon rumors FORUM

Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2013, 02:27:02 AM »

Kwanon

  • Guest
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2013, 03:55:41 AM »
Oh, please....

Whoever you were sending emails to DOES NOT represent Canon as a whole....
He is not the president of the company or anyone even close!

Until you get someone from Canon who's in charge of anything don't think anything about what that nameless "canon" guy said.


wockawocka

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 386
    • View Profile
    • Wedding Photography
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2013, 04:53:04 AM »
High MP is niche compared to needs of Canon's userbase.

You have to look at the market as a whole.

My H4D50 Raw files are 70mb each. It has a knock on effect in terms of processing and storage. The end user has files way bigger than they need to have them in nearly all cases and I have more work to do supplying them in sizes they can handle.

I mainly use my Hassy for Actors headshots (for the res and colour accuracy) and for Landscapes when on Holiday. Sometimes at Weddings.

That's it. Yet I took 122,000 images with the 1DX in the last 12 months. An 18mp camera.

Personally, I would prefer a 22mp medium format CMOS solution from Canon so I can have 16 bit colour with High ISO performance. Then I'd use that for EVERYTHING.

Image quality is my number one concern. If Canon came out with a 35mm 16bit 1DX that was 12mp. I'd buy it.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 04:55:04 AM by wockawocka »
1DX, 5D3 and Hasselblad H Series owner.

Sporgon

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1868
  • 5% of gear used 95% of the time
    • View Profile
    • www.buildingpanoramics.com
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2013, 06:11:00 AM »
Proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I am staggered at how many 5D mkiiis Canon seem to be selling. For an extra £450 Canon lifted the mkiii to full pro spec as requested by its sales profile of mkiis ( photographers eschewing the 1Ds mkiii for the 5D mkii )  ; not a bad deal IMO.

Fort those that don't want to pay the extra they introduced the 6D. Do you think the 6D was the answer to Nikon's D600 ? I bet it was the other way around but Nikon got to announce first.

I think the biggest threat to Canon's higher end dslrs could be the rumoured Nikon DF ( Digital 'F' mount - who the hell said 'Digital Fusion ?'  ;)  ). If they get this camera sorted properly with a really good 16 - 18 mp chip, good ergonomics and sturdy build with no b****y pop up flash, and manage to still give a very good OVF along with the EVF facility the camera could be a winner for them.

docsmith

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2013, 06:13:06 AM »
What did you expect him to say?  "Yeah, we are really missing the boat on the high MP cameras...Nikon/Sony is really killing us on that and we can't do anything about it"......you got predictable stock answers.  That is all. 

I am sure Canon will call a high MP cameras a "niche" right up until the second they release a high MP camera.....then it will be the "best thing ever"....."game changing resolution"......and Canon will be "leaders of the technology...."


Lichtgestalt

  • Guest
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2013, 07:10:19 AM »
somebody from canon usa..... well you can stop reading after that.
no official statement, probably a guy doing callcenter work.

you know how tight canon is about R&D  "some guy" in the USA sure knows nothing.

but hey.. good opportunity to complain about canon and tell everyone you preordered camera XY because canon does not what you want them to do.   ;D



Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4515
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 07:29:16 AM »
was told that the person agreed with me but that high megapixel DLSRs was a "niche" market.  Personally I don't consider landscape, commercial, fine art, large group photography, etc... a niche market.

He was probably not talking of subjective importance, but of estimated sales volume - and he's correct here, because for a *working* high-mp camera you need lenses that are able to resolve this resolution - and with both crop (dense pixels) and ff (sharpness across the frame) this would mean cost well beyond the current Rebel or 6D *system* prices.

As for prices themselves, it's clear Canon is driving a high-price policy for early adopters, and then lets the market decide how fast and far the prices drop - this is frustrating for enthusiasts who want the newest and best products now, but if you know it and wait some it's expectable.

My issue with Canon (and what you should ask about :-)) is that they're too often crippling their own products for internal differentiation and currently ignoring the middle segment altogether but concentrate on either high-end (200-400L, 1dc, ...) or low-end or video (st-m, IS primes) and there are interesting patents and prototypes, but to no avail - a 430ex successor with rt anyone?

canon rumors FORUM

Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2013, 07:29:16 AM »

Lichtgestalt

  • Guest
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 07:36:27 AM »
As for prices themselves, it's clear Canon is driving a high-price policy for early adopters, and then lets the market decide how fast and far the prices drop - this is frustrating for enthusiasts who want the newest and best products now, but if you know it and wait some it's expectable.

yep.. in a few month the 6D dropped from 1999 euro to 1580 euro here.

and for someone who does not need a sports AF system it´s a fantastic camera.
are there limitations, sure. otherwise nobody would need to buy a body with more features.

we live in camera heaven these days and all people on such gear sites like this do... is complain.
complaining will not make your images look better.. more MP neither....
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 07:38:07 AM by Lichtgestalt »

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4515
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 07:52:03 AM »
we live in camera heaven these days and all people on such gear sites like this do... is complain. complaining will not make your images look better..

But complaining, then discussing workarounds for the issues you're complaining about will - so I see nothing bad in pointing out products' shortcomings as everyone can decide how much corner sharpness or other (non-?) issues matter.

more MP neither....

Good point there - I have to admit with my new 6d experience looking at the 60d crop shots my first thought usually is "oh my, what crappy iq" - but after some seconds I always realize 100% crop on the monitor is not the most important aspect, and if you cannot do nice photography you won't be able to with ff or high-mp ff...

canon rumors FORUM

Re: High Megapixel DLSR a niche market?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 07:52:03 AM »