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Author Topic: F1 Photography Advice  (Read 48447 times)

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2013, 02:03:29 PM »
2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!

I'm so excited about he 2014 season that I can hardly contain myself. IMHO, I think the massive technical regulation changes will mean that slower yet more reliable cars will prevail over faster yet more failure prone cars. If I'm not mistaken, the engine allotment per car will be limited to five for the entire season, and exceeding that limit will result in a 10-grid spot penalty.

Having played with turbo motors on an amateur level, I'm eager to see how the engineers will respond to such a massive technical challenge. The exhaust gas temperature on a turbocharged race engine can exceed 1,800 degrees F. That means the exhaust tubing will expand and contract quite a bit, which can lead to blown clamps, and cracks in the tubing itself, which will render a car useless. That flex can have the same detrimental effects on the induction side of the turbo system as well. Then there's the issue of managing engine knock under such high levels of boost, which will be particularly challenging at hotter races like Malaysia and Bahrain. Detonation in a turbocharged engine = rapid destruction!

It harkens back to the 2009 season  - the last time F1 saw significant technical changes - where the Red Bulls had great pace, but very poor reliability. McLaren looked hopeless for much of the season, as did Ferrari. Ultimately, Brawn GP had enough pace and reliability to win the championship. Will 2014 see a similar mix-up in results? I can't wait to see :)


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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2013, 02:03:29 PM »

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2013, 02:07:30 PM »
The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.

I really miss Mika. He retired too soon. Maybe 2014 will see another Fin (Raikonnen) sticking it to another multiple World Champion German (Vettel) :)?

It will also be very interesting to see how Alonso responds to having a teammate that can very well drive faster than him. He didn't handle that particularly well at McLaren!

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #77 on: November 28, 2013, 02:36:22 PM »
The genious of this was the fact that he had tried to overtake for a few laps at that point already, then he back off to be able to go flat through Eau Rouge carrying even more speed on to the straight. Poor Ricardo Zonta in the BAR didn't even know what happened when the Ferrari and the McLaren passed him. Mika doing an Elvis on the podium was also superb.

I really miss Mika. He retired too soon. Maybe 2014 will see another Fin (Raikonnen) sticking it to another multiple World Champion German (Vettel) :)?

It will also be very interesting to see how Alonso responds to having a teammate that can very well drive faster than him. He didn't handle that particularly well at McLaren!
I miss MIka also, very much. He is definitely in the all time top ten list. Courage, skill, intelligence, raw speed, a tactical mind, he had it all, a true racer. I would be very happy to see Kimi beat Seb next year, but I am afraid his back won't let him. Kimi is up there with Mika, Schumi, Alonso, Senna and a few others. One of the great anecdotes about Kimi is when he did his first tests for Sauber, the team saw his lap times and that he was very close to the regular drivers' times. They concluded he would soon be ready to take the next step, then he breaks in on the radio asking when he could start going fast. Jaw dropping moment for the guys and his place in the team was clear.

As for Alonso, I really like him and consider him to be one of the greatest. But like you say, he doesn't handle competition well. It was probably only Massa himself who actually thought he could match Alonso. But he's history now.

I look forward to next year, Newey will build a great car again for RBR but the turbo engines will make sure it's a completely new game.

Not much about photography here. I have a few taken with my old P&S from the Malaysian GP 2005, but not on the computer I'm using now. There's a decent one on JV there. I'll look for it and post it. I miss JV in the sport.

CarlTN

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2013, 02:54:02 PM »
2014 will see their displacement cut to basically half what it was in the early 2000's!

I'm so excited about he 2014 season that I can hardly contain myself. IMHO, I think the massive technical regulation changes will mean that slower yet more reliable cars will prevail over faster yet more failure prone cars. If I'm not mistaken, the engine allotment per car will be limited to five for the entire season, and exceeding that limit will result in a 10-grid spot penalty.

Having played with turbo motors on an amateur level, I'm eager to see how the engineers will respond to such a massive technical challenge. The exhaust gas temperature on a turbocharged race engine can exceed 1,800 degrees F. That means the exhaust tubing will expand and contract quite a bit, which can lead to blown clamps, and cracks in the tubing itself, which will render a car useless. That flex can have the same detrimental effects on the induction side of the turbo system as well. Then there's the issue of managing engine knock under such high levels of boost, which will be particularly challenging at hotter races like Malaysia and Bahrain. Detonation in a turbocharged engine = rapid destruction!

It harkens back to the 2009 season  - the last time F1 saw significant technical changes - where the Red Bulls had great pace, but very poor reliability. McLaren looked hopeless for much of the season, as did Ferrari. Ultimately, Brawn GP had enough pace and reliability to win the championship. Will 2014 see a similar mix-up in results? I can't wait to see :)

It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power.  I've tried adding it to gasoline to boost octane, and it seems to work well.  You just need to allow for the fact that it burns hotter, yet slower than gasoline.  Mostly just used it in my 2 stroke atv and dirtbike...as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!  I better hurry up though, I'm not getting any younger, except mentally!

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2013, 03:50:05 PM »
One of the great anecdotes about Kimi is when he did his first tests for Sauber, the team saw his lap times and that he was very close to the regular drivers' times. They concluded he would soon be ready to take the next step, then he breaks in on the radio asking when he could start going fast. Jaw dropping moment for the guys and his place in the team was clear.

As for Alonso, I really like him and consider him to be one of the greatest. But like you say, he doesn't handle competition well. It was probably only Massa himself who actually thought he could match Alonso. But he's history now.

Hadn't heard that story about Kimi before, but it's fascinating nonetheless. I had a chance to meet Kimi at an autograph session in 2003, right after he lost the championship to Schumacher by 1 point. Let's just say that while he's an incredible talent, he's just as personable in real life as he is on TV ;D

Alonso is one heck of a driver as well. My hard head still thinks that Alonso and Hamilton have the edge in talent over Vettel. IMHO, the Ferrari chassis was a 5th or 6th place car much of this season, and the fact that Alonso managed to consistently put it on the podium is nothing short of miraculous. I just don't understand why Luca Di Montezemolo feels the need to criticize Alonso's performance in public when his engineers gave him a mediocre car! Perhaps Luca's forgotten that his teams boneheaded pit strategy cost Fernando the championship in 2010?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 03:52:06 PM by V8Beast »

Lloyd

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2013, 03:53:39 PM »
If this trend continues, then 10 or 15 years from now there will probably be no more F1, and probably no more motor racing of any kind.  Only sailboats and solar powered bicycles...People are stupid!

It may not be too bad as these stupid sailers are already going over 50mph.http://youtu.be/kECYxBKHguMIn 10 to 15 years these sailboats may be going as fast as today's F1 cars.
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V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2013, 04:01:14 PM »
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power.  I've tried adding it to gasoline to boost octane, and it seems to work well.  You just need to allow for the fact that it burns hotter, yet slower than gasoline.  Mostly just used it in my 2 stroke atv and dirtbike...as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!  I better hurry up though, I'm not getting any younger, except mentally!

Those motors were nuts. Can you imagine the kind of courage it took to drive around a street course like Monaco - surrounded by concrete barriers - with that much power? I believe those turbo 1.5L motors produced 1,300 - 1,400 hp in qualifying trim. That's nearly 1,000 hp per liter. Incredible!

As for the 2014 motors, the energy recovery systems the teams have come up with are truly ingenious. They employ an electric motor integrated between the turbocharger's compressor and exhaust wheels. As the turbo shaft spins, these motors can either charge the propulsion battery, or at low rpm the motors can draw energy from the battery to spin the turbocharger, thus eliminating turbo lag. There's nothing like this at the OEM level, but I'm sure we'll be seeing similar technology in road cars many years down the road.

Rumor has it that the Mercedes engines have a 100 hp advantage over Renault and Ferrari for next season. That bodes well for Lewis and Jenson, provided Mercedes and McLaren come up with fast, reliable chassis. Perhaps we'll see another Englishman win the championship and make the Queen proud ;D 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 04:03:35 PM by V8Beast »

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2013, 04:01:14 PM »

IMG_0001

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2013, 04:59:02 PM »
...
I don't think there's anyone that is any way associated with F1 that likes Bernie. I've tried to read up on the matter, but I just don't understand how one man was able to seize so much power in F1.

Well, he came from the bottom when F1 was small and just brought the money to F1 with publicity. He turned it from gentlemans racing to showbusiness. Once he had the control over money and publicity rights, he just forced the FIA to listen to him, and then, took over the FIA and regulation side of the the "sport". Since F1 became a money making machine, teams were also more inclined to oblige...
What a mess, my camera's sensor is full of massless particules that keep on trying to behave like waves!

IMG_0001

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2013, 05:06:20 PM »
...
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power. 
...
as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!

They also had flat floors and skirts that generated enormous downforce. So much so that the only compliant part of the suspension was the tires otherwise the cars would have been driven into the ground... Those have also been banned by the Bernie.

Now where are the keys to my Pagani, I can only find those of my old beater SLR...
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 05:08:45 PM by IMG_0001 »
What a mess, my camera's sensor is full of massless particules that keep on trying to behave like waves!

CarlTN

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2013, 03:44:02 PM »
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power.  I've tried adding it to gasoline to boost octane, and it seems to work well.  You just need to allow for the fact that it burns hotter, yet slower than gasoline.  Mostly just used it in my 2 stroke atv and dirtbike...as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!  I better hurry up though, I'm not getting any younger, except mentally!

Those motors were nuts. Can you imagine the kind of courage it took to drive around a street course like Monaco - surrounded by concrete barriers - with that much power? I believe those turbo 1.5L motors produced 1,300 - 1,400 hp in qualifying trim. That's nearly 1,000 hp per liter. Incredible!

As for the 2014 motors, the energy recovery systems the teams have come up with are truly ingenious. They employ an electric motor integrated between the turbocharger's compressor and exhaust wheels. As the turbo shaft spins, these motors can either charge the propulsion battery, or at low rpm the motors can draw energy from the battery to spin the turbocharger, thus eliminating turbo lag. There's nothing like this at the OEM level, but I'm sure we'll be seeing similar technology in road cars many years down the road.

Rumor has it that the Mercedes engines have a 100 hp advantage over Renault and Ferrari for next season. That bodes well for Lewis and Jenson, provided Mercedes and McLaren come up with fast, reliable chassis. Perhaps we'll see another Englishman win the championship and make the Queen proud ;D

Agreed, they were incredible and I didn't follow it closely back then, as a "kid".  I didn't have cable tv until a few years ago!  Senna in particular was some kind of god of motoring, especially at Monaco.  I can't imagine what they must have been like, but the consensus is they were "scary" to drive...kind of like the Can Am cars of the '70's, such as the 917.  Yes I read about and saw pictures of the new motor design in F1 magazine a couple of months ago.  I'm kind of not all that enthusiastic about hybrid power, but I guess for the time being there's no stopping it.  I'm of the opinion that it certainly does not conserve resources, when used at the consumer level, given all the pollution, resources, and money expended on mining the raw material for the batteries.  It's also not a money maker for the manufacturers, it's a money loser (other than the luxury models that already have a lot of profit built in).

As for Lewis, I'm not remotely a fan of his.  He's an arrogant, entitled piece of garbage, and his driving style is unfocused, lacks discipline and consistency...again in my opinion...but his record bears this out.  He's a walking man-diva, and that has no place in racing.  The commentators (Hobbs and the others) certainly seem to feel that way about him also.  I cringe every time you brits rally around him, haha.  It's time for you all to find a new young brit driver to rally around...hopefully one will come forward soon.  We in the USA don't have any F1 drivers to rally around, but most of us just watch nascar anyway, so our brains are dead...hahaha. 

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2013, 03:47:53 PM »
...
It will also kind of hearken back to the 1980's, when F1 used similarly small displacement engines with turbos.  I believe they produced well over 1000 peak hp from around 1.5 liters!  The power and the chassis were obviously hard to control, though.  Interestingly, the fuel they used back then was comprised mostly of toluene, nicknamed "rocket fuel" because it made so much power. 
...
as I don't have something like a Veyron parked in my garage like most of you guys...yet!

They also had flat floors and skirts that generated enormous downforce. So much so that the only compliant part of the suspension was the tires otherwise the cars would have been driven into the ground... Those have also been banned by the Bernie.

Now where are the keys to my Pagani, I can only find those of my old beater SLR...

Haha, I think Richard Hammond has them...so look it over for dings when you get it back!

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2013, 10:10:41 PM »
I'm kind of not all that enthusiastic about hybrid power, but I guess for the time being there's no stopping it.  I'm of the opinion that it certainly does not conserve resources, when used at the consumer level, given all the pollution, resources, and money expended on mining the raw material for the batteries.  It's also not a money maker for the manufacturers, it's a money loser (other than the luxury models that already have a lot of profit built in).

I concur, although the implementation of hybrid power in F1 is far more interesting that hybrid power in passenger cars. It's all about politics, but if that's what Bernie thinks he has to do to bring money into F1 then there isn't much the teams can do about it.

Quote
As for Lewis, I'm not remotely a fan of his.  He's an arrogant, entitled piece of garbage, and his driving style is unfocused, lacks discipline and consistency...again in my opinion...but his record bears this out.  He's a walking man-diva, and that has no place in racing.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel ;D LOL ;D I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of Lewis, but he's still one heck of a driver. It couldn't have been easy having a defending two-time world champion as his teammate at McLaren when he first broke into the sport, but he nearly won the championship as a rookie. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, but if I was a team principal, I'd take the arrogant driver and deal with the off-track fallout that comes with his attitude over a talented driver that lacks the confidence to take the fight to his peers. I think some of the struggles Lewis has had since winning his championship, especially with the atrocious McLaren chassis in 2009, has humbled him a bit, but what do I know :)?   

Quote
It's time for you all to find a new young brit driver to rally around...hopefully one will come forward soon.


Max Chilton, anyone ;D?

Quote
We in the USA don't have any F1 drivers to rally around

If Alexander Rossi gets a ride in F1, I hope he's more than just another Scott Speed.

CarlTN

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2013, 03:27:40 AM »
I'm kind of not all that enthusiastic about hybrid power, but I guess for the time being there's no stopping it.  I'm of the opinion that it certainly does not conserve resources, when used at the consumer level, given all the pollution, resources, and money expended on mining the raw material for the batteries.  It's also not a money maker for the manufacturers, it's a money loser (other than the luxury models that already have a lot of profit built in).

I concur, although the implementation of hybrid power in F1 is far more interesting that hybrid power in passenger cars. It's all about politics, but if that's what Bernie thinks he has to do to bring money into F1 then there isn't much the teams can do about it.

Quote
As for Lewis, I'm not remotely a fan of his.  He's an arrogant, entitled piece of garbage, and his driving style is unfocused, lacks discipline and consistency...again in my opinion...but his record bears this out.  He's a walking man-diva, and that has no place in racing.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel ;D LOL ;D I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of Lewis, but he's still one heck of a driver. It couldn't have been easy having a defending two-time world champion as his teammate at McLaren when he first broke into the sport, but he nearly won the championship as a rookie. There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, but if I was a team principal, I'd take the arrogant driver and deal with the off-track fallout that comes with his attitude over a talented driver that lacks the confidence to take the fight to his peers. I think some of the struggles Lewis has had since winning his championship, especially with the atrocious McLaren chassis in 2009, has humbled him a bit, but what do I know :)?   

Quote
It's time for you all to find a new young brit driver to rally around...hopefully one will come forward soon.


Max Chilton, anyone ;D?

Quote
We in the USA don't have any F1 drivers to rally around

If Alexander Rossi gets a ride in F1, I hope he's more than just another Scott Speed.

Haha, sorry to spoil your pudding on Lewis, but again...Hobbs and gang agree with me, and he and Matchett are Britts.  Lewis proves time and again that he's arrogant, and his emotions override his skill.  He probably also calls out his own name during sex...hahaha!  These are problems Vettel has never had.  Sure he loses his temper sometimes, and sure he's a bit arrogant and entitled, but he doesn't wear it on his sleeve as a calling card like Lewis does.  Also Lewis seems to look down on his mechanics, which is no doubt why they seem to take joy in throwing a wrench in things now and again...and again...and again...hahaha.  Kind of like what Red Bull's mechanics did to poor Webber.  He's got at least as much skill as Lewis, if not more.  But on that team, Webber was never going to get anything other than crapped on...especially considering his age and that he wanted to retire anyway.

I haven't followed Rossi, not sure how he is as a driver.  Looks like the way F1 is structured (and controlled by Bernie and you Brits...haha)...that he will have a tough time ever getting a ride.

I'm not entirely sure how the new hybrid power plants relate to getting F1 funding, and from who.  Perhaps you can enlighten me?  Since there's not a profit in it, it makes me wonder who would sponsor F1 because of it.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 03:29:19 AM by CarlTN »

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2013, 03:27:40 AM »

V8Beast

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »
Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm actually an American ;D I can see how the comment about the Queen may have thrown you off. As an American, I just find the concept of monarchy that has no real political power rather amusing :)

As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.

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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #89 on: December 12, 2013, 01:52:24 AM »
As for the new turbo motors, I believe the theory is that F1 management felt that the 2.4L V-8s were becoming less and less relevant compared to production engines. Since the OEs are moving to smaller-displacement engines with turbos and/or hybrid drives, the new 1.6L engines are supposed to make F1 technology more relevant to the masses and hopefully attract sponsors. I'm not saying I buy into it, but that's how they're trying to spin it.
The sole reason why Honda have re-entered the sport is due to the new direction that the sport is taking with regards to energy recovery, personally I can’t wait for them to be a part of the McLaren framework again as our best era was while we had Honda power (4 championships in a row and one 2nd place over a five year collaboration between 1988 and 1992), whereas we have used Mercedes power now for 19 years and only won 1 championship (came 2nd 7 times), so adios Mercedes, don’t let the door hit you on the arse on the way out  :P
Regarding Rossi, I believe that there is plenty of scope these days as there are plenty of drivers that are “past their sell by dates”, watch this space!!!  Teams like Marussia, Caterham, Sauber, and Williams are the kind of teams that will invest in lower cost-established championship winning drivers from other series, other teams like McLaren and Red Bull have young driver programs so it’s a bit of a revolving door at the moment, as I type this there are at least 6 seats available, and Rossi was the youngest ever driver to obtain his F1 Super Licence, so the future’s a bright place for this boy. 8)

There are so many changes on the way, such as Christian Horner being rumoured to replace Bernie, who knows where Ross Brawn will go, will Kimi stay or retire if Ferrari do not win the championship over the next 2 seasons, will the new (stolen?) Aero team at Williams bring them back to their former glory, will Toyota, BMW or Jaguar re-enter the sport once they see the developments and advancements that Honda make??????????
I am continually in awe of the rapid changes or dynamics that happen within this sport, my wife says that between F1 and photography I am not allowed any other hobbies because I have an obsessive personality!!!!  I think she’s over reacting myself but hey ho, what'da I know!! :o
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Re: F1 Photography Advice
« Reply #89 on: December 12, 2013, 01:52:24 AM »