October 31, 2014, 01:12:46 AM

Author Topic: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]  (Read 17219 times)

dslrdummy

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2014, 07:35:34 PM »

[....]

A perfect second camera will be the A7r ...which means the waiting's theoretically over..once I have it, no matter how good the rumored megapixel offering will be, I wont buy another camera for at least three years. The best thing about mirror less is that we are not tied to one brand anymore. I can walk into a shop today and get a camera that will fit my TS24...36mp and that lens sounds very tempting to me!

Why are we waiting so long for Canons megapixel offering?


As you point out, the only people who have to wait are brand loyalists.  Obviously some people have to be, but those who don't might as well do what some of us have done and supplement our Canon bodies with an A7r.  I love mine, both with its superb native primes and my Canon EF lenses (plus a few old manual focus lenses) - so much so that I'm not sure which is my second camera....
I'm not necessarily a brand loyalist but the economic reality is that I have invested in Canon and to change to a completely incompatible brand now isn't feasible for me. I have looked closely at the A7r for that reason but there seem to be three big question marks - light leak, AF performance and IQ when using an EF adaptor. You clearly love your A7r but what is your experience with these issues if you don't mind me asking?
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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2014, 07:35:34 PM »

tron

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2014, 07:36:45 PM »
Northlightttttttttt?  This is a CR0 rumor. Next please  :)
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 09:06:33 AM by tron »

moreorless

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2014, 09:13:21 PM »
I think the A7r really shows again that resolution sells best when its relatively cheap, the same with the D800 and the 5D2 before it. The biggest part of the market here is I'd say amateur landscape shooters but even pro's potentially moving from MF are often doing so due to price.

In Sony's case I think you can argue that the price for the whole system isn't actually that low given that the lenses seem rather overpriced(especially the 35mm F/2.8 which seems like it should be a £200 lens not a £750 one) but if your adapting Canon that's obviously not an issue.

RGF

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2014, 10:02:48 PM »
I would expect a 44.2MP 4K FF sensor (11520x7680)

Curious - how did you get that sensor size?

Isn't 4k twice 1080 which is 1920 x 1080 so twice would be 3820 x 2160?

Lawliet

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2014, 10:19:44 PM »
I have looked closely at the A7r for that reason but there seem to be three big question marks - light leak, AF performance and IQ when using an EF adaptor.

The light leak story is imho overblown, thats unless you regularly shoot with dense ND filters. Mileage varies with lens choice - how tight are the tolerances of the mount and how susceptible to stray light effects is the lens as such?

IQ-wise the adapter contains no optics, its just an extension tube. While the additional tolerances introduced by the second mount are measurable most of the time just about every other source of error will dominate.

AF? I got the A7r for its manual focusing facilities. :)
Esp with the TS-E lenses AF is...well...you'd be waiting for eternity. With native lenses its ok, with promising developments(see a6k), adapted its more a proof of concept to me.

tron

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2014, 10:31:44 PM »
I would expect a 44.2MP 4K FF sensor (11520x7680)
Can't you even multiply ?  :o

11520x7680 = 88473600 = 88.4MP

sagittariansrock

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2014, 11:31:03 PM »
Why are we waiting so long for Canons megapixel offering? Personally I just don't think their technology is there yet... ( but I would love to be wrong! )

Again, the question is not whether they have or don't have the tech, it's whether Canon's number crunchers think it will be profitable.  The sales of the D800 and A7R have been lackluster, so what's the point of doing a studio/landscape camera that won't make you a healthy profit?  Don't get me wrong: I'm glad the D800 and A7R are out there to push the tech and increase user demand.  I just believe that Canon uses smart business strategy: they make products that sell profitably.


I am pretty sure if and when Canon have fully developed a marketable high-megapixel sensor, they won't let D800/E and A7r sales deter them from putting it in a camera and putting it out there. If the market for it doesn't exist, Canon PR will make sure to create one.
By the way, I have heard 5DIII sales trump D800 sales, makes sense, but do you know for a fact that D800 sales have been lackluster?
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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2014, 11:31:03 PM »

Orangutan

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2014, 11:48:37 PM »
If the market for it doesn't exist, Canon PR will make sure to create one.
Your opinion of Canon marketing is higher than mine.   :D

Quote
By the way, I have heard 5DIII sales trump D800 sales, makes sense, but do you know for a fact that D800 sales have been lackluster?
Of course, true sales numbers are proprietary, so we can't be sure.  At least in the US, we can get a little help from Amazon.com.

D800: #17 in Camera & Photo > Digital SLRs
D800E:  #74 in Camera & Photo > Digital SLRs

5D3: #9 in Camera & Photo > Digital SLRs
5D3 kit (w/24-105): #13

So both distribution versions of the 5D3 are significantly higher than the D800 (which doesn't appear to have a kit version)

Lackluster is certainly relative, but if you consider these two to be direct competitors (as many seem to), the less-expensive D800, with better sensor, is selling at a significantly slower rate than the more expensive 5D3.   If I'm Canon, I'm happy about this; if I'm Nikon, I'm not happy about this.  I'd call that lackluster.







Aglet

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2014, 01:28:21 AM »
I think Canon chose to put out a 5d3 all-rounder instead of a class-leading hi-MP FF body like the d800 partly because they really don't yet have the ability to produce something like that 36MP sensor.  You can't put out a product for bragging rights if you don't qualify.

The 5d3 fills the bill for those who asked for such, for those who wanted more resolution and cleaner, more malleable files the D800 was available.

As far as making a niche product for bragging rights, TSE 17mm, anyone?..

sanj

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2014, 01:45:39 AM »
This actually makes sense to me, although I've been skeptical about Canon's "need" to release a high megapixel full frame camera.

I'll go back to a prediction I make quite a while back – I can see Canon releasing a "5D HD" that offers a pixel density somewhere in the same neighborhood as the 7D (46 mp), perhaps a little less. Same body, same basic functionality (with a slower frame rate likely) just a new sensor and maybe a little faster processor.

It would give customers a choice, but keep their production costs down since many of the components could be shared by both bodies.  Canon has see the D800 sales figures, so they know that high megapixels aren't in huge demand, but they probably also know there is a small subset of customers that will pay a premium for more resolution. Give them what they want, but keep the production costs down.

hi, im not sure where you get your viewpoint. i shoot advertising images and i do use a 5dmk3, but the files are almost always on the edge of usability. if there is cropping, or shadows pulled up(or sky recovered) the canon is terrible. the only reason i haven't changed systems is that i shoot with a very shallow dof and the canon has the best lenses for this.
I have tested the d800e and i have brought a sony a7r and in every test i have done with the cameras together the sony sensor absolutely eats the canon. i find the latitude of the nikon and sony cameras closer to my p65+ (but obvious less res) but even better with the darks getting pulled up.
i don't know about the amateur market, but a large promotion of the professional advertising market (not the editorial or sports) has moved to the nikon d800e from the canon and even a lot have dropped medium format for nikon. i could list a dozen photographers in the top of their fields in the world now shooting with nikon. and thats just out of the few advertising photographers i know personally.

im not saying the nikon is the best for usability- the canon has the best interface, lenses and AF, but the file itself is very disappointing. i say this from a lot of canon file experience (I've shot at least 400,000 files with the 5dmk3 in the last few years). the 5dmk3 is a bit of a love hate camera for me..

i really hope canon answers with a better file (latitude wise)- higher MP (which is badly needed for my market) so i can throw away slow, difficult medium format and only need one camera for everything i shoot.

paul

I know 4 personally. And I do not know many photographers...

sanj

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2014, 01:47:33 AM »
a large promotion of the professional advertising market..

How big is that market?  Is it big enough to drive Canon's R&D and marketing strategy?  Maybe Canon is willing to let that market go (for a while) to avoid making a costly mistake.

i guess they could, but i would have thought theres credibility in owning the top end of the market. the local dealer over here also says the d800 is really well. but maybe you are right?
but i think canon would be silly if they thought like that. its the resin that car manufactures have a limited run sports car- to set their place in the market. i can't see canon just letting the D800e be the best camera on the market.
and they can sell these at a lot higher cost- i am not that cost driven - nor any of the guys i mentioned early. sure we like saving money, but the features of the camera to make life easier is more important. cameras are one the cheapest part of our kits- we didn't ask for it to be this way, but it makes it easy to have multiple bodies etc. the original 1ds cost me 15k nod (12k usd) and it paid for itself on one job. happy to pay this much again for a "niche" market version of a canon camera that can answer the d800.
i heard a while back there was 9000 professional photographers in the UK alone- not sure if this figure is right, but i wouldn't be surprised. even if these people didn't really need the megapixels- i guarantee they would not be able to help them selves if there was a higher megapixel camera available. i can see that even wedding photographers could do with more megapixels- to allow for cropping and different formats. pixel binning makes for better files as well when downsized.

paul

I thought so too...

sanj

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2014, 03:06:00 AM »

...I would have thought there's credibility in owning the top end of the market.

I don't disagree. I think it's just a question of what that credibility might be worth...especially during difficult economic times.

How many people buy DSLRs based on the top-end?  How many care what name plate is on the big white lenses and brick-like bodies at sporting events?  How many bought Canon equipment because they saw Art Wolfe on TV?  A few maybe, but not many.  More likely the choice is made based on what "celebrities" pitch, and and what their friends shoot.  Mercedes Benz could not expect much from the name if they got into the budget car market.

I would think the opposite! A mid priced Merc would sell well IMHO.

Lawliet

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 03:32:50 AM »
I would think the opposite! A mid priced Merc would sell well IMHO.

But only if they
a) manage to keep the level of quality&performance up despite the lower price, otherwise expect backlash.
b) keep the air of exclusivity&luxury that makes the car covetable in the first place.
..think NEX in Hasselblad clothing, though the current state of affairs in that department could be worse.

Something to keep in mind about the 5D800-story: is it just a question of sensor resolution? Or rather a matter of being in an existing ecosystem, or the added effort that has to be made to make actual use of the potential resolution? And then there is the field of pictures in motion, if thats even part of your job description Canon wins more or less by default.

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 03:32:50 AM »

ecka

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 05:10:58 AM »
I would expect a 44.2MP 4K FF sensor (11520x7680)
Can't you even multiply ?  :o

11520x7680 = 88473600 = 88.4MP

Yes, it's 88.4, thank you. It was ~03:00 in the morning when I was typing that :).
FF + primes !

ecka

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 05:16:07 AM »
I would expect a 44.2MP 4K FF sensor (11520x7680)

Curious - how did you get that sensor size?

Isn't 4k twice 1080 which is 1920 x 1080 so twice would be 3820 x 2160?

I'm sorry, it is 88.4MP, my mistake :).
1920*3=5760 which is exactly what 5D3 got.
3840*3=11520
FF + primes !

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Re: New Full Frame Camera in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 05:16:07 AM »