October 31, 2014, 03:59:08 AM

Author Topic: DXO uh-oh?  (Read 21397 times)

mackguyver

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #255 on: August 07, 2014, 04:36:46 PM »
Почему вы ложью, видео точно показывает, почему датчик от Sony лучше, чем Canon.
И почему эти продажи передать все это время? Это не имеет ничего общего с измерениями ДХО, результаты и видео я имею в виду.
Yuriy, no offense but can you translate your native language in Google translation and then post it? Thanks!

I believe "Yuriy's" native language is actually Swedish.  For example, he might say:

Jag gillar att ta dåligt exponerade bilder av grillar, bodar och markiser.
He must be from that Russian side of Stockholm or something as my Swedish friends don't use the Cyrillic alphabet...

I'd respond with the following (forgive the Google translation):
Дорогой друг, это форум Canon и все мы говорим на одном языке, что практически не что DxO не следует доверять и DR может быть хорошо на бумаге, но это не делает все другие камеры устарели. Кроме того, сколько людей на самом деле стрелять в темноте?

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #255 on: August 07, 2014, 04:36:46 PM »

Orangutan

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #256 on: August 07, 2014, 05:06:41 PM »
Почему вы ложью, видео точно показывает, почему датчик от Sony лучше, чем Canon.
И почему эти продажи передать все это время? Это не имеет ничего общего с измерениями ДХО, результаты и видео я имею в виду.
Yuriy, no offense but can you translate your native language in Google translation and then post it? Thanks!

I believe "Yuriy's" native language is actually Swedish.  For example, he might say:

Jag gillar att ta dåligt exponerade bilder av grillar, bodar och markiser.
He must be from that Russian side of Stockholm or something as my Swedish friends don't use the Cyrillic alphabet...

I'd respond with the following (forgive the Google translation):
Дорогой друг, это форум Canon и все мы говорим на одном языке, что практически не что DxO не следует доверять и DR может быть хорошо на бумаге, но это не делает все другие камеры устарели. Кроме того, сколько людей на самом деле стрелять в темноте?

If so, props to Миша for the creativity.

sarangiman

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #257 on: August 07, 2014, 05:28:09 PM »

Thing is, the D810 is actually a real competitor for the 5D III, as far as "general purpose DSLR" goes. It lacks in the ergo department, and is missing that 1 FPS, dunno about the AF system, although that was always pretty decent, but it is a LOT closer, and STILL has the better sensor IQ.

First of all, 'lacks in the ergo department' is very, very subjective. Yes the grip on the D810 is still too small & not fat enough for my hands, and the D-pad is not as good as Canon's joystick. OTOH, there are many more customization options on the D810 than on my 5DIII. So there's a greater chance I can configure the D810 to suit my needs over the Canon. And let's not forget the complete lack of EC in M mode w/ Auto ISO when it comes to Canon. The 1Dx's implementation is so nonsensical it's almost lacking - you either have to use the LCD screen to use EC in M mode, or dedicate the Set button to activate EC in M mode. The latter removes one of the largest advantages of Canon ergonomics in my opinion - the ability to press 'Set' even in shooting mode to instantly check focus on your last shot. Why you can't adjust EC using the dedicated EC button in M mode baffles me to no end...

Also - if you consider this an element of 'ergonomics' - programmable Auto ISO itself enough reason to choose Nikon. When I'm switching primes during a wedding shoot, I don't want to have to remember to go in there and change my minimum shutter speed (and Canon's choice of 'minimum shutter speed' is often unsuitable). With Nikon, I simply choose slower to faster in 5 increments based on if I'm shooting static vs. moving subjects. Game-changing for the types of photography I do.

Quote
I agree, the D800 wasn't really a competitor for the 5D III...but the D810 is.

Now this I'd love some clarification on. Most people are pointing out how the D810 is not much of an improvement over the D800. DxO's own scores on image quality show this. So what suddenly makes the D810 a competitor to the 5DIII, but not the D800? The half-a-stop extra DR? The electronic 1st curtain [EFC] that can only be activated with mirror-up? Just curious exactly why you feel this way.

If I were to venture a guess - I'd say the EFC? I do wish, though, that Nikon had an option to implement EFC in all shooting modes with a short delay to allow mirror vibrations to dampen out. EFC only working in Mup mode is a bit silly - especially in Live View.

My bigger point here is that the D800 was just as big a contender. Not only b/c of its superior image quality, but also b/c of Programmable Auto ISO, Exposure Compensation in M mode, spot-metering linked to AF point, and 3D AF tracking. The latter allows one to simply use the center AF point to initiate focus on a desired subject, and allow the camera to track that subject across the frame, as well as along the Z/depth-axis. This (1) obviates the need to select the proper focus point, which is time consuming, and (2) tracks moving subjects like running brides across the frame. With every Canon save for the 1Dx, I have to manually select the AF point when I can't focus and recompose (24/1.4 and 35/1.4). Try doing that with a 4 month old baby that constantly moves around. For this particular scenario, I believe my focus hit rate went from something like 10% to 80% simply going from a 5DIII to the D810.

Canon's complete lack of a separate sensor for AF tracking in all but the 1Dx is rather egregious. And I, personally, find it difficult to use a 1Dx b/c of its weight/size that, with serious glass, puts it north of what I'm willing to tolerate. The 5D III uses some tricks to track subjects to make up for its lack of dedicated hardware - e.g. I believe it cross-references data from AF sensors to check if a subject at some depth moved from one focus point to another, and I think it also uses some info from its 63 zone metering system to help track subjects. But none of these approaches come near the (lateral, X-Y plane) tracking accuracy of a dedicated 91,000 pixel meter, or the entire imaging sensor itself in Sony SLT designs.

It's funny, if anything, I think the Nikon system is somewhat less desirable now than it was a few years ago when the D800 was released. Why? B/c now Canon has some very, very fine lenses for it's system. The 16-35 f/4L IS & the 24-70 f/4L IS are great lenses for landscape photographers.

dgatwood

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #258 on: August 08, 2014, 02:13:38 PM »
First of all, 'lacks in the ergo department' is very, very subjective. Yes the grip on the D810 is still too small & not fat enough for my hands, and the D-pad is not as good as Canon's joystick.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I actually prefer D-pads to joysticks.  They don't stick out from the camera as far, and as such, are less prone to breakage.  I mean, it's significant that the first hit in a search for "5D mark III joystick" on Google was not a description of the product, but rather a discussion thread entitled "5DIII Joystick came off".  Out of the entire first page on Google, all but two links were threads and blog articles talking about various failure modes.  That doesn't sound like good design to me.  A good D-pad can give you the same basic functionality without the fragility.  But I'd rather have eye tracking than either one.

sarangiman

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #259 on: August 08, 2014, 09:39:24 PM »
The reason I prefer the joystick is b/c the D-pad requires too much travel for my thumb to change focus point. But neither the D-pad nor joystick are ideal. I can think of a much better way to select AF points quickly... can you? :)

But given how spectacular the D810 is at tracking the subject across the frame in '3D' tracking mode, the joystick vs. D-pad debate is less of a concern for me as I'm jumping ship. However, I'd still prefer a faster way to select AF point for those situations where AF tracking fails - e.g. in very low light, low contrast subjects, heavily backlit subjects, etc.

Interesting about the joystick breaking. Ultimately I don't care - that can be fixed so I'd prefer function over longevity. But that's just me.

dgatwood

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #260 on: August 09, 2014, 01:35:42 AM »
The reason I prefer the joystick is b/c the D-pad requires too much travel for my thumb to change focus point. But neither the D-pad nor joystick are ideal. I can think of a much better way to select AF points quickly... can you? :)

Indeed, eye can.  :D

jrista

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #261 on: August 09, 2014, 03:16:01 AM »
The reason I prefer the joystick is b/c the D-pad requires too much travel for my thumb to change focus point. But neither the D-pad nor joystick are ideal. I can think of a much better way to select AF points quickly... can you? :)

But given how spectacular the D810 is at tracking the subject across the frame in '3D' tracking mode, the joystick vs. D-pad debate is less of a concern for me as I'm jumping ship. However, I'd still prefer a faster way to select AF point for those situations where AF tracking fails - e.g. in very low light, low contrast subjects, heavily backlit subjects, etc.

Interesting about the joystick breaking. Ultimately I don't care - that can be fixed so I'd prefer function over longevity. But that's just me.

I really wonder why Canon doesn't bring eye control back. It certainly seems like fans of the EOS 3 ECF really want it. It would be interesting to have whatever it is your looking at in the VF be focused...that would just rock. I am guessing the system was expensive, at least that's what I'd read in the past...in a film camera, it was probably one of the most expensive things. However in a DSLR, it's just one more expensive thing to add to the mix...maybe it pushes cost over the edge.

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #261 on: August 09, 2014, 03:16:01 AM »

zim

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #262 on: August 09, 2014, 04:28:58 AM »
7Dii - same sensor/IQ as 70D but with eye control af, slight up in fps all else as 7D

How would that be received?

DominoDude

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #263 on: August 11, 2014, 05:01:15 PM »
Почему вы ложью, видео точно показывает, почему датчик от Sony лучше, чем Canon.
И почему эти продажи передать все это время? Это не имеет ничего общего с измерениями ДХО, результаты и видео я имею в виду.
Yuriy, no offense but can you translate your native language in Google translation and then post it? Thanks!

I believe "Yuriy's" native language is actually Swedish.  For example, he might say:

Jag gillar att ta dåligt exponerade bilder av grillar, bodar och markiser.

Njae, Neuro, svenska är knappast Yuriys modersmål. Vi använder inte det kyrilliska alfabetet. Men vissa av oss är duktiga på att ta underexponerade foton. ;)

Transl.: Nah, Neuro, Swedish is hardly his native tongue. We don't use the Cyrillic alphabet. But some of us are good at taking underexposed photos.
Dyslexics have more fnu!

sarangiman

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #264 on: August 12, 2014, 12:45:00 AM »
I really wonder why Canon doesn't bring eye control back. It certainly seems like fans of the EOS 3 ECF really want it. It would be interesting to have whatever it is your looking at in the VF be focused...that would just rock. I am guessing the system was expensive, at least that's what I'd read in the past...in a film camera, it was probably one of the most expensive things. However in a DSLR, it's just one more expensive thing to add to the mix...maybe it pushes cost over the edge.

As much as I love the idea, eye AF never worked well for me on my EOS 3, or any of the Canon camcorders I used to use back in the day. I'd probably fare better with contacts, though.

IMHO there's a simpler, better way to do it. Of all cameras, the Panasonic GH4 actually comes close to what I'm thinking- if you enable an option buried deep in the menus. It's not ideal, but it's a good start. With a little creativity, one could iterate on it or something similar to design a UI for AF point selection that'd be significantly faster & easier to use than a D-pad, or a joystick, or the cumbersome 4-way controllers on most mirrorless ILCs.

jrista

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #265 on: August 12, 2014, 02:46:15 AM »
I really wonder why Canon doesn't bring eye control back. It certainly seems like fans of the EOS 3 ECF really want it. It would be interesting to have whatever it is your looking at in the VF be focused...that would just rock. I am guessing the system was expensive, at least that's what I'd read in the past...in a film camera, it was probably one of the most expensive things. However in a DSLR, it's just one more expensive thing to add to the mix...maybe it pushes cost over the edge.

As much as I love the idea, eye AF never worked well for me on my EOS 3, or any of the Canon camcorders I used to use back in the day. I'd probably fare better with contacts, though.

IMHO there's a simpler, better way to do it. Of all cameras, the Panasonic GH4 actually comes close to what I'm thinking- if you enable an option buried deep in the menus. It's not ideal, but it's a good start. With a little creativity, one could iterate on it or something similar to design a UI for AF point selection that'd be significantly faster & easier to use than a D-pad, or a joystick, or the cumbersome 4-way controllers on most mirrorless ILCs.

I currently don't have any problems whatsoever selecting the AF point with the joystick. I can move it around without ever taking my eye from the viewfinder. The toughest part is hitting that little M.fn button next to the primary dial...there is probably a more accessible place for that button. But once it's pressed, actually selecting the AF point is not difficult at all.

Eldar

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #266 on: August 12, 2014, 02:56:21 AM »
The toughest part is hitting that little M.fn button next to the primary dial...there is probably a more accessible place for that button. But once it's pressed, actually selecting the AF point is not difficult at all.
I use the top right button at the back
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privatebydesign

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #267 on: August 12, 2014, 11:50:06 AM »
One of the nicest FW upgrades Canon did to the 1Ds MkIII enabled the joystick to adjust AF point without pressing any other button first, I really like that feature.
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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #267 on: August 12, 2014, 11:50:06 AM »

scyrene

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #268 on: August 12, 2014, 12:27:30 PM »
One of the nicest FW upgrades Canon did to the 1Ds MkIII enabled the joystick to adjust AF point without pressing any other button first, I really like that feature.

The 5DIII does something similar. I don't know if I enabled it somehow, or if it's part of the current firmware. If you press the shutter button halfway to engage the AF, then use the joystick, it moves the focus points without pressing any other buttons.
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3kramd5

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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #269 on: August 12, 2014, 01:50:31 PM »
The toughest part is hitting that little M.fn button next to the primary dial...there is probably a more accessible place for that button. But once it's pressed, actually selecting the AF point is not difficult at all.
I use the top right button at the back

I center-press the joystick to return the AF point selection to the center. Doing that unlocks it. Thumb is already there, just press it and then toggle the joystick.
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Re: DXO uh-oh?
« Reply #269 on: August 12, 2014, 01:50:31 PM »