December 22, 2014, 01:54:21 PM

Author Topic: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]  (Read 12747 times)

tat3406

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2014, 08:45:45 PM »
Why would it be f/2.8?  The 24 f/2.8 IS isn't large, but it's not a pancake either.  A 24mm pancake that is f/4 would make more sense, but I'm not sure how useful it'd be a crop camera.

24mm & 28mm f2.8 IS is very good small prime, but the price is around 4 times to 40mm pancake.

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2014, 08:45:45 PM »

Random Orbits

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2014, 09:59:42 PM »
Why would it be f/2.8?  The 24 f/2.8 IS isn't large, but it's not a pancake either.  A 24mm pancake that is f/4 would make more sense, but I'm not sure how useful it'd be a crop camera.

24mm & 28mm f2.8 IS is very good small prime, but the price is around 4 times to 40mm pancake.
Which is why I don't think it'll be f/2.8 or be as good as the 24 and 28 f/2.8 IS primes if it's priced anywhere near the 40mm pancake.  And why launch it with the 7DII, unless it is an EF-S lens, but does that make sense when Canon has not shown much inclinination for EF-S primes?

ahsanford

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2014, 11:30:51 AM »
Why would it be f/2.8?  The 24 f/2.8 IS isn't large, but it's not a pancake either.  A 24mm pancake that is f/4 would make more sense, but I'm not sure how useful it'd be a crop camera.

24mm & 28mm f2.8 IS is very good small prime, but the price is around 4 times to 40mm pancake.

The non-L IS refresh lenses (24/28/35) and the pancakes are different animals.   Similar sharpness and similar max aperture, but the non-L IS lenses get you some very nice things:

  • Much faster focusing -- USM vs. STM is no contest
  • IS is lovely for low-light handheld work
  • Higher build quality.  The 24/28/35 lenses feel like the 100L macro for 'solidness', precision, lack of rattle or play with the rings, etc.  The pancake is certainly nicer than the nifty fifty 50 F/1.8, but it's not as well put together as the 24/28/35 lenses.  In short, there is much more to build quality than if the ring is metal -- I'd compare these very lenses to make that point.
  • Internal focusing -- does not change length while focusing.  The pancake extends out depending on focus distance.
  • For two of the three FL (24 and 28), you get a 58mm filter ring, which is probably is the a common diameter for folks stepping up from their crop kit lenses.  The pancake has a 52mm ring which is fairly uncommon for DSLR owners to have in their bag these days.
  • Full-time mechanical manual focusing -- the pancake has focus by wire
  • Proper bayonet hoods are offered -- the pancake has a screw-in hood that some do not like.
  • Greater max magnification (0.23-0.24x vs. 0.18x)
  • Has a distance scale -- the pancake does not

In short, the non-L IS refresh lenses are (nearly) fully featured lenses with the bells and whistles photographers count on.  The pancake is a stripped down photography tool that takes sharp pictures but can limit the photographer for the reasons listed above. 

I've also heard in some reviews that the pancake is specifically for more wide-open-end applications (where it is truly remarkable), and that the lens gets softer (I presume from diffraction) more quickly when you stop down past F/8, F/11 or so than a conventional lens might.  Bryan Carnathan from TDP also spoke of a small focus shift with the pancake, but still gave it his highest 'star' rating, given the value.

The pancake is still a stellar value and takes remarkably sharp pictures, but understand that at that price, you don't get everything.  Many features you may / may not care about will be missing.  In full disclosure, I own the 40 pancake and the 28 F/2.8 IS and the 28 gets used easily 10x more for the reasons above.  The 40 is relegated to ultralight walkaround detail when I may / may not need my camera.  Glad to have it, but I rarely need it.

- A

preppyak

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2014, 12:52:21 PM »
Can somebody explain the appeal to me? Not trying to start a flame war, just trying to understand.
I dont think they are intended to compete with the other primes...rather to serve a complementary purposed to larger kits.

For example, I have an 11-16mm, a 17-70mm, and a 55-250...all lenses I like and that aren't "heavy" per say. I had a 200mm f/2.8 as well at one point. I'd take them backpacking, I'd take them in my boat kayaking, etc. On longer trips, the extra 4-5lbs of those lenses adds up quickly. It weighs me down and takes energy away, making me less excited to do photography. It affects the performance of my boat and takes up a lot of space.

Now, make that just a 24mm and 60+mm pancake (especially combined with an SL1 or TXi camera), and suddenly my total kit weights about <2lbs, instead of say 7-8lbs. I can take it in a smaller dry box, which also means less weight. There's also physical limitations to those boxes...I might need a pancake to even fit it in a box that works for me.

Mostly, just compare a 60D w 35mm f/2 IS vs an SL1 with 40mm f/2.8. It's a BIG difference in size: http://camerasize.com/compact/#100.368,448.345,ha,t

And the tradeoffs are relatively small. No swivel screen, lower fps, less weather sealing, etc. But, for people that need portability, those tradeoffs are often much better than going mirrorless if you still do sports shooting.

mrzero

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2014, 12:55:26 PM »
Can somebody explain the appeal to me? Not trying to start a flame war, just trying to understand.

A 24mm pancake (which won't have IS) seems a bit redundant with the 24mm 2.8 IS, which by all accounts is a very good lens, has USM and which Canon cut the price to a much more reasonable level. The size seems kind of irrelevant once you put it on a 5D, 6D or other full frame body and for an SL1, you end up with a 37mm lens which is barely in the wide-angle realm.

Do people like these pancakes just because they are cute (no argument there)? What am I missing?

The appeal for a 20-24mm pancake on crop is definitely there.  Before I went full frame, my 20mm USM was basically permanently attached to my rebel.  The biggest drawback to me at the time was that it wasn't wide enough.  I would've preferred 16 or 18mm, with the 2.8, but I certainly couldn't have afforded the 16-35 2.8 L II at the time. 

A ~24mm pancake will definitely not have (or need) IS.  I would think it would be EF-S and also slower than 2.8 as well, for further differentiation from the new non-L IS prime.  But who knows?

As for me, I'm actually thinking about grabbing the new 10-18 and just modding the rear mount to fit the full frame. 
Canon 6d, t1i, 24-70/4L, 20/2.8, 28/1.8, 40/2.8, 50/1.8II, 100/2.8 macro, 70-300/4-5.6, g1x, 430exII, 90ex
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mrsfotografie

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2014, 12:56:53 PM »
Mostly, just compare a 60D w 35mm f/2 IS vs an SL1 with 40mm f/2.8. It's a BIG difference in size: http://camerasize.com/compact/#100.368,448.345,ha,t

Thanks, I bookmarked that site, very handy!
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, G16 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

ahsanford

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2014, 05:27:28 PM »
Mostly, just compare a 60D w 35mm f/2 IS vs an SL1 with 40mm f/2.8. It's a BIG difference in size: http://camerasize.com/compact/#100.368,448.345,ha,t

Thanks, I bookmarked that site, very handy!

Yeah, I've used that site a few times.  It makes we want mirrorless less and it makes me want smaller lenses more.   :D

- A

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2014, 05:27:28 PM »

brad-man

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2014, 06:18:28 PM »
I guess I'm the only one hoping for an EF-M pancake. I certainly don't expect it, I just like the idea of having another pocketable lens for my little friend.

Mr Bean

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2014, 06:25:15 PM »
Can somebody explain the appeal to me? Not trying to start a flame war, just trying to understand.

A 24mm pancake (which won't have IS) seems a bit redundant with the 24mm 2.8 IS, which by all accounts is a very good lens, has USM and which Canon cut the price to a much more reasonable level. The size seems kind of irrelevant once you put it on a 5D, 6D or other full frame body and for an SL1, you end up with a 37mm lens which is barely in the wide-angle realm.

Do people like these pancakes just because they are cute (no argument there)? What am I missing?
For me, it's a great landscape lens. Sharp at 5.6 and great contrast and colour. On a 5D3 with grip, it looks a bit odd, but, it takes great images. That's all I care about :)

Very handy as a street lens. Wandering around NY with the 5D3 stripped down (grip removed), it looked less attention seeking ;)

The 24mm pancake I don't have a need for. But, I might get one if its cheap and compact.
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mrsfotografie

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: August 26, 2014, 02:05:31 AM »
Mostly, just compare a 60D w 35mm f/2 IS vs an SL1 with 40mm f/2.8. It's a BIG difference in size: http://camerasize.com/compact/#100.368,448.345,ha,t

Thanks, I bookmarked that site, very handy!

Yeah, I've used that site a few times.  It makes we want mirrorless less and it makes me want smaller lenses more.   :D

- A

Actually, I don't like my lenses to become too short (pancakes) because it deducts from good handling. A lens that has a little more length to it allows me to stabilize my camera with my left hand. This is one reason why I sold my 40mm Voightlander. The minimum size of lens I like to use on my 5D's is the 35mm f/2 and 50 mm f/1.8 MkI.
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wickidwombat

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: August 26, 2014, 05:25:50 AM »
I guess I'm the only one hoping for an EF-M pancake. I certainly don't expect it, I just like the idea of having another pocketable lens for my little friend.

id be super keen for a EF-M 35 f2 pancake
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Cory

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: August 26, 2014, 05:57:16 AM »
id be super keen for a EF-M 35 f2 pancake

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mb66energy

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2014, 05:59:31 AM »
I guess I'm the only one hoping for an EF-M pancake. I certainly don't expect it, I just like the idea of having another pocketable lens for my little friend.

id be super keen for a EF-M 35 f2 pancake

Me too - just preferring a little longer focal length (like Cory) and a good (=small) minimum focus distance!

I like to equip my EOS M with the shorty fourty but it is no longer compact with the EF->EF-M adaptor.
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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2014, 05:59:31 AM »

Marauder

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: August 26, 2014, 10:34:38 AM »
If it's similar in quality and price to the 40, I'd love one.  The 40 is a sweet little lens.  Small and subtle and great for landscapes and walking around.  I most recently used it as a museum lens at the Royal Ontario Museum.  Fast enough to give me a 1/50 or 1/60 shutter speed and I was able to get clear shots at those speeds even without IS.
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ajperk

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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: August 26, 2014, 04:37:28 PM »
I am obviously a bit late to the conversation, but I am very excited for more pancake lenses! I love the 40mm, carry it around in my camera bag all the time and throw it on the camera for a light, discreet walk-around setup. If it's priced about the same as the 40mm, then I'll probably be pre-ordering it.
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Re: A New Pancake Lens? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: August 26, 2014, 04:37:28 PM »