November 27, 2014, 09:00:30 PM

Author Topic: New Lens Information for Photokina  (Read 13196 times)

Steve

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #105 on: August 30, 2014, 01:28:47 PM »
One question, when did I ever say the 400 DO wasn't sharp or took TC's well? Because it reads to me like he is calling people that say those things idiots, and his images prove they are.

Nope, you said "horrible bokeh".  There are several pictures in that post (and elsewhere on the internet) showing the bokeh of the lens.  It is not, in any way, "horrible".

What he doesn't show you is stuff like this that demonstrates what DO do to bokeh and how they handle specular highlights, you might have noticed not one of Mr Morris' images has any specular highlights, did you wonder why? No, of course you didn't, you are too obtuse to do that.

No, its probably because it isn't actually a problem in real world shooting situations and you are blowing it way out of proportion.  Bryan from The Digital Picture had this to say about it:

"The Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS USM Lens has been criticized for its poor specular highlight bokeh (OOF blur quality), but I have seldom encountered this problem. Specular highlights can have a target-appearance at worst - concentric circles instead of a smooth blur. I can't say I like the bokeh of this lens more than Canon's other 400mm Lenses, but the 400mm focal length combined with a relatively wide aperture can very nicely separate a subject from its background."

If you are happy to pay $6,500 for a lens that does that then I suspect you are the idiot, after buying them for that much many owners are happy to sell them for $3,500 to get rid of them, maybe they are the idiots.

One thing I will agree with you on is that I think the lens is too expensive and a new version isn't likely to be cheaper.  It would be stellar if it was priced at about 2/3 or 1/2 of the 300 f2.8 IS II.  One of the promises of DO technology is that it is easier to eliminate chromatic aberration (a huge problem with traditional optical designs lens manufacturers have struggled with for decades that, curiously, doesn't completely invalidate the entire technology...) so fluorite lens elements aren't needed for high end telephotos which should make them cheaper to manufacture but, well, Canon. *shrug*

One last thing - that photo you posted is pretty disingenuous.  Were you just not going to mention that it was taken with the very different 70-300 f4-5.6 DO?  Just going to allow that to be inferred by people who didn't bother to do a reverse GIS? The 70-300 DO exhibits far more problems than the 400 f4 DO and is reviewed a lot more harshly for a number of reasons related to its IQ.  If you've got a sample that demonstrates the absolutely horrendous disaster that is the 400 f4  DO, I'm all eyes, but make sure its the 400 f4 DO and not that other lens. 

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #105 on: August 30, 2014, 01:28:47 PM »

wtlloyd

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #106 on: August 30, 2014, 02:32:30 PM »
Wow, good catch.
Upvote for you!
For folks who don't know, in Windows a right click on image, and "Search Google for this image" is about as easy as can be.


One question, when did I ever say the 400 DO wasn't sharp or took TC's well? Because it reads to me like he is calling people that say those things idiots, and his images prove they are.

Nope, you said "horrible bokeh".  There are several pictures in that post (and elsewhere on the internet) showing the bokeh of the lens.  It is not, in any way, "horrible".

What he doesn't show you is stuff like this that demonstrates what DO do to bokeh and how they handle specular highlights, you might have noticed not one of Mr Morris' images has any specular highlights, did you wonder why? No, of course you didn't, you are too obtuse to do that.

No, its probably because it isn't actually a problem in real world shooting situations and you are blowing it way out of proportion.  Bryan from The Digital Picture had this to say about it:

"The Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS USM Lens has been criticized for its poor specular highlight bokeh (OOF blur quality), but I have seldom encountered this problem. Specular highlights can have a target-appearance at worst - concentric circles instead of a smooth blur. I can't say I like the bokeh of this lens more than Canon's other 400mm Lenses, but the 400mm focal length combined with a relatively wide aperture can very nicely separate a subject from its background."

If you are happy to pay $6,500 for a lens that does that then I suspect you are the idiot, after buying them for that much many owners are happy to sell them for $3,500 to get rid of them, maybe they are the idiots.

One thing I will agree with you on is that I think the lens is too expensive and a new version isn't likely to be cheaper.  It would be stellar if it was priced at about 2/3 or 1/2 of the 300 f2.8 IS II.  One of the promises of DO technology is that it is easier to eliminate chromatic aberration (a huge problem with traditional optical designs lens manufacturers have struggled with for decades that, curiously, doesn't completely invalidate the entire technology...) so fluorite lens elements aren't needed for high end telephotos which should make them cheaper to manufacture but, well, Canon. *shrug*

One last thing - that photo you posted is pretty disingenuous.  Were you just not going to mention that it was taken with the very different 70-300 f4-5.6 DO?  Just going to allow that to be inferred by people who didn't bother to do a reverse GIS? The 70-300 DO exhibits far more problems than the 400 f4 DO and is reviewed a lot more harshly for a number of reasons related to its IQ.  If you've got a sample that demonstrates the absolutely horrendous disaster that is the 400 f4  DO, I'm all eyes, but make sure its the 400 f4 DO and not that other lens.

mrsfotografie

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #107 on: August 30, 2014, 02:38:16 PM »
Wow, good catch.
Upvote for you!
For folks who don't know, in Windows a right click on image, and "Search Google for this image" is about as easy as can be.


One question, when did I ever say the 400 DO wasn't sharp or took TC's well? Because it reads to me like he is calling people that say those things idiots, and his images prove they are.

Nope, you said "horrible bokeh".  There are several pictures in that post (and elsewhere on the internet) showing the bokeh of the lens.  It is not, in any way, "horrible".

What he doesn't show you is stuff like this that demonstrates what DO do to bokeh and how they handle specular highlights, you might have noticed not one of Mr Morris' images has any specular highlights, did you wonder why? No, of course you didn't, you are too obtuse to do that.

No, its probably because it isn't actually a problem in real world shooting situations and you are blowing it way out of proportion.  Bryan from The Digital Picture had this to say about it:

"The Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS USM Lens has been criticized for its poor specular highlight bokeh (OOF blur quality), but I have seldom encountered this problem. Specular highlights can have a target-appearance at worst - concentric circles instead of a smooth blur. I can't say I like the bokeh of this lens more than Canon's other 400mm Lenses, but the 400mm focal length combined with a relatively wide aperture can very nicely separate a subject from its background."

If you are happy to pay $6,500 for a lens that does that then I suspect you are the idiot, after buying them for that much many owners are happy to sell them for $3,500 to get rid of them, maybe they are the idiots.

One thing I will agree with you on is that I think the lens is too expensive and a new version isn't likely to be cheaper.  It would be stellar if it was priced at about 2/3 or 1/2 of the 300 f2.8 IS II.  One of the promises of DO technology is that it is easier to eliminate chromatic aberration (a huge problem with traditional optical designs lens manufacturers have struggled with for decades that, curiously, doesn't completely invalidate the entire technology...) so fluorite lens elements aren't needed for high end telephotos which should make them cheaper to manufacture but, well, Canon. *shrug*

One last thing - that photo you posted is pretty disingenuous.  Were you just not going to mention that it was taken with the very different 70-300 f4-5.6 DO?  Just going to allow that to be inferred by people who didn't bother to do a reverse GIS? The 70-300 DO exhibits far more problems than the 400 f4 DO and is reviewed a lot more harshly for a number of reasons related to its IQ.  If you've got a sample that demonstrates the absolutely horrendous disaster that is the 400 f4  DO, I'm all eyes, but make sure its the 400 f4 DO and not that other lens.

Thanks, for killing another internet lie.

And no thanks for making me want the 400 DO even more  >:(

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Steve

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #108 on: August 30, 2014, 02:40:13 PM »
I would have thought that people who have enough money to sink into Canon lenses would keep it sophisticated. How naïve of me.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was poorly phrased but just so you know, this is an extremely offensive, classist thing to say. A person's worth and personality does not track with the size of their bank account.

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #109 on: August 30, 2014, 03:25:44 PM »
I would have thought that people who have enough money to sink into Canon lenses would keep it sophisticated. How naïve of me.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was poorly phrased but just so you know, this is an extremely offensive, classist thing to say. A person's worth and personality does not track with the size of their bank account.

True. Didn't mean it that way.

Steve

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #110 on: August 30, 2014, 03:40:59 PM »
True. Didn't mean it that way.

I didn't think you did, I'm just a bit sensitive.  As a relatively poor person, the whole "more money = better than" culture we have here in the US gets to me sometimes. 

ewg963

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2014, 06:51:43 AM »
The 40mm pancake turned out to be quite popular so maybe this 24mm one will too .... but wait EF-S? Now that just seems a little bit silly to me. Why restrict it to crop only? And without IS? This thing had better be under $100 because otherwise why would anyone need this? The kit lens does f/3.5 IS at 24mm, right? And if you want a quality 24mm prime there's the ~ $500 EF 24mm f/2.8 IS (which is pretty small already IMO).

The 24-105 could be a cheaper FF option. Some people were banging on about that here so I guess there might be a demand but seriously? So you fork out $1600 on a FF 6D right? Assuming you went body only. And then you go an pair it with, what I assume will be, a cheap kit lens with compromised IQ? Why? Why not just stick with a rebel and a 18-55 kit lens if you're a cheapo? Having a FF camera means you give a s___ about IQ. This rumor makes no sense.

And a 400mm DO version 2?  :o because the the original was so popular right?? Right?

Where is the 100-400 replacement and where is our 50mm IS?

I have a feeling the next rumor will say "Sorry no 7D replacement, just a white powershot with instagram built in".  >:(
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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #111 on: August 31, 2014, 06:51:43 AM »

Ekpil

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #112 on: August 31, 2014, 08:35:12 AM »
What do we need....
Still waiting for the new EF 600mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x (600mm 4.0 / 840mm 5.6)

There is no need for a new EF 800mm /5.6





dolina

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2014, 09:30:27 AM »
What do we need....
Still waiting for the new EF 600mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4x (600mm 4.0 / 840mm 5.6)

There is no need for a new EF 800mm /5.6
Ships in volume 2020... that's when the new 800 is needed. :)
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Don Haines

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2014, 08:47:00 PM »
No 100-400 replacement! This is the first time in a long long time that the rumour has been no replacement. Four years of saying it will come and now "no it won't".

First 100-400 rumour that I believe and I will be the first to laugh if it is wrong again :)
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mrsfotografie

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2014, 02:09:33 AM »
No 100-400 replacement! This is the first time in a long long time that the rumour has been no replacement. Four years of saying it will come and now "no it won't".

First 100-400 rumour that I believe and I will be the first to laugh if it is wrong again :)

I think everybody's got it wrong and it will be a 400-100L, and it will be reverse engineered from the original.
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jrista

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #116 on: September 02, 2014, 02:16:43 AM »
Great!  Three lenses in which I have absolutely no interest.  Canon is saving me money all over the place!

There are three lenses that interest me right now and, would you believe it, they're all Tamrons!
If Canon were to introduce any three lenses, you can guarantee that a fair share of photographers out there will have zero interest in the products.

Each one of these rumoured lenses, if well executed, could have a great reputation and sales for their segment - regardless of whether they suit my needs or yours.

The 100-400L replacement is already 10 years overdue.  A 24-70/2.8 IS is also way overdue.  Yet, they're looking at a 400/4DO II that maybe a few thousand people will buy, ever while these mainstream lenses are missing?

I think it really depends on how it reviews, and how light weight it really is. The original 400 DO had certain problems due to the diffraction grating approach they used. If Canon figured out particle dispersion DO, then the IQ could rival that of standard optics, but in a much smaller package.

If it reviews well, I think plenty of people would buy one. The original reviewed ok, with the exception that the softish glow caused by the diffraction grating was usually mentioned as the primary detractor.

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #117 on: September 02, 2014, 04:27:53 AM »
400/4 DO is nice.

I need 200-500 4.0-5.6 L I S  8)

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #117 on: September 02, 2014, 04:27:53 AM »

tayassu

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #118 on: September 02, 2014, 04:36:03 AM »
I need 200-500 4.0-5.6 L I S  8)

As far as I remember, there is a pretty good 200-560 4.0-5.6 L IS...  ;)
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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2014, 11:04:51 AM »
But wait! We were told in this CR2 back in May that the next "L" lens announcement would be the 100-400 replacement! Or wait, maybe it was this CR2 from January 2009.

The way this site keeps falling for rumors of a new 100-400 is becoming reminiscent of this:



I heard it's going to be beta tested at the next Olympics  :)

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Re: New Lens Information for Photokina
« Reply #119 on: September 02, 2014, 11:04:51 AM »