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Author Topic: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2  (Read 19378 times)

mk

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Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« on: November 28, 2011, 05:09:45 PM »
Hello everyone!

I recently "inherited" a Metz 45 CT-5 flash from my Dad. He said it's from the 80's...

Looks fine cosmetically, but the battery pack is definitely fried and needs replacement. Does anyone have experience with these units?

I am interested in trying it out with my 5D, but not sure if it will work voltage wise--I definitely don't want to fry something here  ;D

Also, the flash was purchased in Germany. Would that pose a problem if I were to buy a battery pack in the US?

Thanks for any pointers!

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Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« on: November 28, 2011, 05:09:45 PM »

mk

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2011, 12:54:35 PM »
Anyone? :(

candyman

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2011, 01:19:24 PM »
I found some info here: http://forums.steves-digicams.com/canon-eos-dslr/134692-metz-45-ct-1-flash-gun.html#b

As for the batteries it should be universal. Meaning using the same batteries.

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ErosP

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 01:20:21 PM »
I have a few Metz units that I use for my lighting. Voltage wise, DO NOT hook them up directly to your DSLR beacuse YOU WILL FRY YOUR CAMERA!!! Use a Cactus wireless remote or similar wireless unit to trigger your flash.

Battery packs - you can find them on eBay but you're better off using regular Duracell AA batteries (those holders are also available on eBay used).

Metz flashes are versatile units for lighting, you'll just have to use them in manual mode, no TTL capabilities.

Hope this helps,
Eros
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briansquibb

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2011, 01:28:35 PM »
Buy a new one designed for the Canon fit

mk

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 02:32:38 PM »
I found some info here: http://forums.steves-digicams.com/canon-eos-dslr/134692-metz-45-ct-1-flash-gun.html#b

As for the batteries it should be universal. Meaning using the same batteries.




Excellent! See, this one says that there are no problems, voltage wise--other places say DON'T DO IT....

I have a few Metz units that I use for my lighting. Voltage wise, DO NOT hook them up directly to your DSLR beacuse YOU WILL FRY YOUR CAMERA!!! Use a Cactus wireless remote or similar wireless unit to trigger your flash.

Battery packs - you can find them on eBay but you're better off using regular Duracell AA batteries (those holders are also available on eBay used).

Metz flashes are versatile units for lighting, you'll just have to use them in manual mode, no TTL capabilities.

Hope this helps,
Eros
twitter: @erospeterson


Saw those battery packs on ebay. So they work? It says that the circuit board, etc., doesn't come with the battery packs. You bought some from there?

Buy a new one designed for the Canon fit


lol. That doesn't answer any of my questions, but thanks for the "advice".

7enderbender

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 05:10:15 PM »
Hello everyone!

I recently "inherited" a Metz 45 CT-5 flash from my Dad. He said it's from the 80's...

Looks fine cosmetically, but the battery pack is definitely fried and needs replacement. Does anyone have experience with these units?

I am interested in trying it out with my 5D, but not sure if it will work voltage wise--I definitely don't want to fry something here  ;D

Also, the flash was purchased in Germany. Would that pose a problem if I were to buy a battery pack in the US?

Thanks for any pointers!


Hi there,

Those are great units. I have a 45 CT-4 from that time. First owner actually. It works great with the 5DII. I confirmed with Metz Germany that these units are safe for modern DSLRs.

After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.

Batteries: same standards everywhere. There are two types of 45 units as far as I know; those with AA battery cages and the ones that take some rechargeable insert. I'm not familiar with the latter. And I'm not sure those are interchangeable.

Metz has some old manuals and parts lists on their German web site. That should help. Check out places like KEH.com  They have a lot of Metz original parts. With the battery cages I found that it's worth spending a bit more on original replacement parts. The cheap ebay stuff doesn't fit 100%. Regular AA rechargables like  Eneloops will work fine (6 of them). Again, this may be different on the NiMH rechargeable flash models.

Contact Metz support. They are very responsive and will give you a clear answer regarding any voltage concerns. To be sure you can always purchase one of those little Wein safe-sync adapters.

Attaching it is easiest via the PC port. There is a designated cable for that. Alternatively, the cable that goes on the hot shoe also works with the generic version of the SCA adapter. Make sure you're not using one that was designed for any specific camera model with TTL. TTL will NOT work under any circumstances. It's all manual all the way or you can use the flash in the auto mode and set the aperture and range and the flash will do a pretty good job at measuring internally with the little sensor in front.

Wireless is of course the safest and most versatile option. Any cheap ebay triggers will do. If that all works then it's absolutely worth hunting for the optional "mecamat" unit and cable to go with it. It gives you lots of options to dial the unit down manually. I found one at KEH for cheap but I think I lucked out since those can be somewhat rare and are very model specific units.

One thing to consider is that cost may add up with spare parts and such. I think it's worth it. The flash units are very very good and more powerful than any modern designated Canon flash. The guide numbers are a little misleading with that. And for covering an event I actually still find the old fashioned "potato masher" style very useful, especially in larger rooms. And comfortable at that.

Feel free to shoot me a note if you need help.
5DII - 50L - 135L - 200 2.8L - 24-105 - 580EXII - 430EXII - FD 500/8 - AE1-p - bag full of FD lenses

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 05:10:15 PM »

mk

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 05:50:18 PM »
Hello everyone!

I recently "inherited" a Metz 45 CT-5 flash from my Dad. He said it's from the 80's...

Looks fine cosmetically, but the battery pack is definitely fried and needs replacement. Does anyone have experience with these units?

I am interested in trying it out with my 5D, but not sure if it will work voltage wise--I definitely don't want to fry something here  ;D

Also, the flash was purchased in Germany. Would that pose a problem if I were to buy a battery pack in the US?

Thanks for any pointers!


Hi there,

Those are great units. I have a 45 CT-4 from that time. First owner actually. It works great with the 5DII. I confirmed with Metz Germany that these units are safe for modern DSLRs.

After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.

Batteries: same standards everywhere. There are two types of 45 units as far as I know; those with AA battery cages and the ones that take some rechargeable insert. I'm not familiar with the latter. And I'm not sure those are interchangeable.

Metz has some old manuals and parts lists on their German web site. That should help. Check out places like KEH.com  They have a lot of Metz original parts. With the battery cages I found that it's worth spending a bit more on original replacement parts. The cheap ebay stuff doesn't fit 100%. Regular AA rechargables like  Eneloops will work fine (6 of them). Again, this may be different on the NiMH rechargeable flash models.

Contact Metz support. They are very responsive and will give you a clear answer regarding any voltage concerns. To be sure you can always purchase one of those little Wein safe-sync adapters.

Attaching it is easiest via the PC port. There is a designated cable for that. Alternatively, the cable that goes on the hot shoe also works with the generic version of the SCA adapter. Make sure you're not using one that was designed for any specific camera model with TTL. TTL will NOT work under any circumstances. It's all manual all the way or you can use the flash in the auto mode and set the aperture and range and the flash will do a pretty good job at measuring internally with the little sensor in front.

Wireless is of course the safest and most versatile option. Any cheap ebay triggers will do. If that all works then it's absolutely worth hunting for the optional "mecamat" unit and cable to go with it. It gives you lots of options to dial the unit down manually. I found one at KEH for cheap but I think I lucked out since those can be somewhat rare and are very model specific units.

One thing to consider is that cost may add up with spare parts and such. I think it's worth it. The flash units are very very good and more powerful than any modern designated Canon flash. The guide numbers are a little misleading with that. And for covering an event I actually still find the old fashioned "potato masher" style very useful, especially in larger rooms. And comfortable at that.

Feel free to shoot me a note if you need help.

Wow thank you so much for that thorough reply!

I checked out the sites you suggested.

Unfortunately Metz or it's affiliates have not gotten back to me in regards to my repair request and general inquiry in regards to compatibility.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 06:47:40 PM »
After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.



Its hardly a myth, and has nothing to do with exotic flash units.  Older cameras had a electrical contact rather than electronics to trigger the flash.  The flash could put out a high voltage kick.  No problem accross mechanical contacts.  Then came cameras with electronics to trigger the flash unit, and fried electronics became common until people learned not to connect those old units to a camera.


Here is a list of flashes and their voltages.  All Canon units are under 6V, so anything higher carries a level of risk. 

The Metz CT-45 is believed to put out about 14.8 volts, so it is a risk, but may or may not cause a problem.  As you can see, some of the older Metz flash units put out 200 or even 300V, a sure way to fry your camera.

Use a wireless remote to be safe.

Revision:

I did find a post with a quote attributed to Chuck westfall stating that with the Canon 20D, and supposedly all subsequent bodies, there was a shutter redesign that resulted in a new trigger circuit that could take 250V.



http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/canon-eos-digital-slr-1-6x-sensors/53600-digital-rebel-xt-350d-flash-sync-voltage-rating.html
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 12:37:33 PM by Mt Spokane Photography »

mk

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 12:40:14 PM »
Well, I emailed Keh and got this response this morning:

Good Morning {NAME}!!
 
Using that flash with your 5D should present no issues whatsoever.  the Metz 45 is a handle mount flash, so it will be connected via cable to your 5D, and that will cause no voltage issues whatsover.  As far as the battery goes, it won't matter if it is made in Germany,
 
Hope this helps!!
 
-Sean.
 
 

Sean McCreery
Sales Representative
KEH Camera

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2011, 01:20:08 PM »
Well, I emailed Keh and got this response this morning:

Good Morning {NAME}!!
 
Using that flash with your 5D should present no issues whatsoever.  the Metz 45 is a handle mount flash, so it will be connected via cable to your 5D, and that will cause no voltage issues whatsover.  As far as the battery goes, it won't matter if it is made in Germany,
 
Hope this helps!!
-Sean.
 
 

Sean McCreery
Sales Representative
KEH Camera


The cable makes little or no no difference to the flash voltage kick, the small amount of inductance might reduce the spike a little.  Its unlikely that 15 volts it will be a issue, since there is plenty of safety margin, and the camera battery is about 12 volts.   But, who knows, it might work 1000 times and the next one will fry it.  Semiconductors and capacitors are that way, repeated high voltage can break them down.  Using one successfully a few dozen times is no guarantee of safety. 

mk

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2011, 03:02:03 PM »
The cable makes little or no no difference to the flash voltage kick, the small amount of inductance might reduce the spike a little.  Its unlikely that 15 volts it will be a issue, since there is plenty of safety margin, and the camera battery is about 12 volts.   But, who knows, it might work 1000 times and the next one will fry it.  Semiconductors and capacitors are that way, repeated high voltage can break them down.  Using one successfully a few dozen times is no guarantee of safety.

Well....crap?

I guess a wireless remote will be the best way to go.

I guess one could always check with Canon to see if they have some input?

pwp

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2011, 03:50:30 PM »
Here's all the information you need. It lists the trigger voltage kick of every flash on the planet.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

Bookmark this. It's not as easy to find as time goes by...

Paul Wright

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2011, 03:50:30 PM »

mk

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2011, 04:05:51 PM »
Here's all the information you need. It lists the trigger voltage kick of every flash on the planet.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

Bookmark this. It's not as easy to find as time goes by...

Paul Wright


Your call....

Yikes!

7enderbender

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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 09:53:14 AM »
After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.


Its hardly a myth, and has nothing to do with exotic flash units.  Older cameras had a electrical contact rather than electronics to trigger the flash.  The flash could put out a high voltage kick.  No problem accross mechanical contacts.  Then came cameras with electronics to trigger the flash unit, and fried electronics became common until people learned not to connect those old units to a camera.


Here is a list of flashes and their voltages.  All Canon units are under 6V, so anything higher carries a level of risk. 

The Metz CT-45 is believed to put out about 14.8 volts, so it is a risk, but may or may not cause a problem.  As you can see, some of the older Metz flash units put out 200 or even 300V, a sure way to fry your camera.

Use a wireless remote to be safe.

Again, I don't encourage anyone to mess around with this without proper confirmation of what the individual unit puts out - and if it may be defective or not. However, I still believe that this has turned into an urban myth to some degree at least. The 5DII is rated at 250V. There may be some very old or uncommon units that exceed that. Per my information from Metz Germany directly none of the units we discussed here fall into that category. A CT-4 or a CT-5 should (!) be safe. During my "research" on this topic I came across one type that was sold under a different brand name for a German mail order store (sold as "Revue") that looked and functioned just like a CT-4 but appears to have a much higher voltage than the normal Metz branded units.

And then again: I've so far never seen any first-hand report of somebody actually frying their 5D/5DII with a flash. Not saying it never happened, not saying that there isn't some risk involved if a number of factors occur at the same time.

And you are right: to be safe any cheap wireless trigger will be a good idea. Or any of the Wein thingies that insulate the camera. Good thing to have also if you ever shoot on a set with older strobes or so.
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Re: Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2011, 09:53:14 AM »