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Author Topic: Now 4K can take over the world?  (Read 12612 times)

nc0b

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2015, 06:46:50 PM »
As far as what to look for, everything is HDMI and Ethernet. I don't think it matters you are in the Mac world, as each device has its own UI. TV, Blu-ray and satellite receiver / DVR all have wired Ethernet connections. Am skeptical WiFi will have enough throughput to work with 4K
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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2015, 06:46:50 PM »

jrista

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2015, 06:59:31 PM »
though I agree that 4k content is available via streaming more than via other media (Disks, Cable,,,) still that is only in the US, maybe in EU, but the rest of the world doesn't have the service or the bandwidth, also cable and satellite TV is not as content-rich as in the US, so the only other option is Blu-Ray, also in the future when 8K hits streaming will be harder, so this is a good step for when that comes, which is the real target for broadcasting companies.

True, streaming is bigger in the more heavily westernized countries, where bandwidth is more readily available. I can see UHD BluRay being valuable in such places. In some ways, a disc will always hold the edge as well...there is the whole uncompressed audio thing, which if you have a nice audio system, can be a big bonus. You definitely don't get that with streaming. You might get an edge on overall IQ as well...but it's pretty amazing what TVs can do these days with their upscaling, blur management and judder reduction algorithms. Even older content that wasn't prepared for 60fps playback has incredibly smooth transitions.

I don't believe bandwidth will be a huge problem when 8k arrives, but I also think 8k will be a little slower in coming than 4k. For most people, the very vast majority of the middle class and certainly those with less disposable income, TV's at the sizes they buy already look phenomenal at 4k (and even 2k with smaller sized TVs). The SmartTV integration with a wide variety of delivery services makes getting high quality content very easy, and if you want, very cheap (i.e. it's very easy to drop cable plans these days and just get all you entertainment from online sources, and disc). It will be a select few, those buying 80" and larger TVs or projectors for their home theaters, who will probably gain something from 8k.

I'm pretty blown away by my 4k Samsung. I could always see the pixels of my older Samsung TOC 1080p TV, even sitting on my couch. Even if I couldn't discern every pixel clearly, the picture just never felt like "high definition" to me...it felt scratchy. With 4k, I finally feel I'm watching truly high definition video, and I am no longer able to see any pixels. With the built-in upscaling (which does selective sharpening and noise reduction), even older content, as well as more highly compressed web content, looks phenomenal.

I don't think I would see any significant improvement with 8k, not at this screen size, anyway. If later in life I am able to "upgrade" to a larger home capable of supporting a huge TV, then 8k might hold some value, but until such time, at least as far as playback is concerned, 4k is pretty amazing. Now, when it comes to 8k recording, that is a totally different story. I'm all for more resolution when it comes to recording video. There are so many benefits to having more and higher quality data. I suspect 8k and maybe even 10/12/16k in the future will be useful things for those interested in doing cinematography. Especially if 4k settles in as a long-term TV video entertainment standard...8k can be downsampled to 4k, increasing quality.

ajfotofilmagem

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2015, 10:35:35 AM »
Streaming does not have sufficient throughput for 4K video in 99% of cities on the planet. This should improve in the coming years, but there will always be places where the internet is precarious and subject to temporary interruptions.

In this sense, physical media capable of storing 4K video is exciting for enthusiasts "the more resolution the better."

Events with exact time, as shows in structures assembled especially for that day, can not depend on luck to the internet to work without interruption at the crucial moment. A disc will always work, needing only power that can be provided by generators.

Rejoice, all of which are investing in 4K video. ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 10:40:27 AM by ajfotofilmagem »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2015, 01:22:51 PM »

I do know that I want a smart TV but are there various kinds? What should I consider or look for? All of my computers are Mac's if that matters.


Cheers,

Vivid

New models are coming out frequently, May-June is usually when new models come out each year.  I'd read reviews and pick a specific model or two and stick with that decision unless you don't like it when you get to a store.

Remote controls are a area of big disappointment for me.  I have a horrible time using the junk remote for my Samsung, and since they now encrypt the remote signal for newer TV sets, you are limited to one crummy control. 

So, there are apps for smartphones - Right?  I downloaded the Samsung App for my iphone, only to find it did not work.  Digging into it, and its hidden deeply, I found that my smart TV could not work with Samsungs own app.

The higher end ones work with the Samsung App, but its not the best.

So, check out remotes and see how you like them, and see if third party remotes and apps will work.  Don't assume, check it out carefully.  There are lots of Samsung Remote Apps, for example, they just do not work on newer models due to the encryption.


Here is just one review site, but beware, they may be reviewing TV sets by specification or watching in a room that has not windows or extraneous light sources so a shiny screen does not cause issues.

http://www.smartreview.com/samsung-un55ju7100-55-inch-4k-ultra-hd-smart-led-tv

As for Remotes, this one looks far better than the remote that came with my Samsung that requires two hands to use and is not lighted.

http://www.cnet.com/news/samsung-smart-remote-hands-on-with-the-best-tv-clicker-yet/

Tugela

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2015, 02:14:55 PM »
Mt Spokane hit the nail on the head.

So disc manufacturers finally reached agreement on standards for their obsolete product. Who cares. All this fasination with 4K when no one under 30 ever watches a TV anyway and fewer and fewer over 30 are either.

And yet, when I walk around my neighborhood at night, and see all the living room windows of the shiny new condo developments filled with Yuppies, every single one of them has a glowing big screen TV attached to the wall.

If your theory is correct, why is this happening?

rfdesigner

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2015, 03:29:52 PM »
hmmm   4k?

Where I live (UK, ~13 miles from Southampton, rural but hardly isolated) I get about 6Mbit on ADSL..  on a good day..  sub 1M on a bad one, I can just about stream BBC iplayer on low bandwidth setting.   There is no optical fibre, there is no cable, just ADSL on a phone line.  Sure central London has good bandwidth but rrural areas are often served very badly.  In the UK the most wealthy often live outside the cities so people have enough money for manufacturers to aim products for them, but no one seems willing to pay to put a cable of any sort in.

Thank goodness for recorded media..  that doesn't drop out every five minutes.
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ajfotofilmagem

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2015, 04:02:42 PM »
hmmm   4k?

Where I live (UK, ~13 miles from Southampton, rural but hardly isolated) I get about 6Mbit on ADSL..  on a good day..  sub 1M on a bad one, I can just about stream BBC iplayer on low bandwidth setting.   There is no optical fibre, there is no cable, just ADSL on a phone line.  Sure central London has good bandwidth but rrural areas are often served very badly.  In the UK the most wealthy often live outside the cities so people have enough money for manufacturers to aim products for them, but no one seems willing to pay to put a cable of any sort in.

Thank goodness for recorded media..  that doesn't drop out every five minutes.
Here in Brazil, broadband is also concentrated in urban centers, and some cities with 1 million inhabitants do not have fast internet enough to watch 1080P video streaming.

Some people in CanonRumors speak as if the planet had at its disposal all innovative technologies. That's why some visitors of this site consider that members of CanonRumors are just rich snobs. :(

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2015, 04:02:42 PM »

rfdesigner

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2015, 06:31:17 PM »
hmmm   4k?

Where I live (UK, ~13 miles from Southampton, rural but hardly isolated) I get about 6Mbit on ADSL..  on a good day..  sub 1M on a bad one, I can just about stream BBC iplayer on low bandwidth setting.   There is no optical fibre, there is no cable, just ADSL on a phone line.  Sure central London has good bandwidth but rrural areas are often served very badly.  In the UK the most wealthy often live outside the cities so people have enough money for manufacturers to aim products for them, but no one seems willing to pay to put a cable of any sort in.

Thank goodness for recorded media..  that doesn't drop out every five minutes.
Here in Brazil, broadband is also concentrated in urban centers, and some cities with 1 million inhabitants do not have fast internet enough to watch 1080P video streaming.

Some people in CanonRumors speak as if the planet had at its disposal all innovative technologies. That's why some visitors of this site consider that members of CanonRumors are just rich snobs. :(

I think that's just people being like people everywhere..   they look around themselves and think they and their surrounds are normal..   At least here in the UK we generally have a pretty broad world view (which I'm sure is still biased), and realise some parts of the world are miles ahead some are miles behind, The US is rather unusual in being so sparsely populated generally and so concentrated in cities, very different to the UK or many other countries I've been to.
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RunAndGun

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2015, 07:36:44 PM »
I'd skip 3D.  That Samsung I returned was top of the line 3D.

Curved OLED TV screens sound interesting, but they still command a high price.  They cost no more to make, but billions of dollars went into their development.

I agree on 3D.  My 92" Mitsubishi can do 3D.  I have a pair of glasses and I've watched TWO whole 3D movies on it(it doesn't help that it's a PITA to do it because my receiver won't pass the 3D signal).  I can see the effect, just like at the theater, but it's not that special.  I've even shot it and watched it in a production environment and it's still meh…

Curved screens are a gimmick.  They provide zero benefit to the viewer at the sizes and viewing distances in a home environment and it's actually a detriment(in my opinion, anyway).

OLED, though, can't get here fast enough on the large screen, mass produced, widely available, consumer front.  I have two professional OLED monitors(one 17" and one 7.7") and two OLED VF's(an aftermarket for my C300 and the native Sony one on my F55).  OLED eats LCD's lunch(there are no "LED Displays".  LED is being used as the backlight source on TV's/monitors that call themselves "LED", but the display tech is still an LCD panel).

BTW, my Sony F55 is a native 4K camera, but I don't have any way to monitor it's 4K signal/image.  4K production quality monitors are still $$$.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 07:39:24 PM by RunAndGun »

jeffa4444

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2015, 10:05:12 AM »
Cinematography cameras like the 6K Red Dragon or the Alexa 65 with 6.5K open gate will all be down sampled to 4K (in fact most editing etc is done in 2K still) so oversampling is very much the order of the day in high end cinematography going forwards. Im not convinced about 8K display let me explain why. In the average European multiplex the screen diagonal is 55/56 feet, the ONLY place to see true 4K is in the front three rows any further back it become 2K resolution. The industry is not going to re-build hundreds of multiplexes and 8K viewing would put you in no mans land between the front row & the screen. The same principle applies to TVs our homes didnt suddenly become larger to accomodate larger screens to retain the same viewing distance. Without this a 65" 8K TV would require you to sit closer to the screen which becomes more uncomfortable for general viewing.

8K will help with compression artefacts when down sampling to 4K and in any concantination errors, it will support a wider color gamut and be great for cleaner VFX pulls etc and for IMAX. 
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jefflinde

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2015, 11:16:51 AM »
has there been any discussion of the actual media that is used?  I would like to see i large capacity disc released that could be used as a hard copy back up.  Currently the M-Disc is 25GB but i need so many to create a hard copy of my photo library.  hopefully they can get a 100gb format or something even larger. 

Tugela

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2015, 03:22:11 PM »
Cinematography cameras like the 6K Red Dragon or the Alexa 65 with 6.5K open gate will all be down sampled to 4K (in fact most editing etc is done in 2K still) so oversampling is very much the order of the day in high end cinematography going forwards. Im not convinced about 8K display let me explain why. In the average European multiplex the screen diagonal is 55/56 feet, the ONLY place to see true 4K is in the front three rows any further back it become 2K resolution. The industry is not going to re-build hundreds of multiplexes and 8K viewing would put you in no mans land between the front row & the screen. The same principle applies to TVs our homes didnt suddenly become larger to accomodate larger screens to retain the same viewing distance. Without this a 65" 8K TV would require you to sit closer to the screen which becomes more uncomfortable for general viewing.

8K will help with compression artefacts when down sampling to 4K and in any concantination errors, it will support a wider color gamut and be great for cleaner VFX pulls etc and for IMAX.

Those theoretical viewing distance arguments are nonsense and only apply to large scale objects. Higher resolution makes a difference when small scale detail is the object of attention.

People make these arguments so they can resist upgrading their work output to higher quality products where the need to be rigorous in attention to detail is critical and shoddy work is obvious. It is more about protecting their backsides and enabling laziness than doing what is good for the consumer.

jrista

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2015, 04:10:45 PM »
Cinematography cameras like the 6K Red Dragon or the Alexa 65 with 6.5K open gate will all be down sampled to 4K (in fact most editing etc is done in 2K still) so oversampling is very much the order of the day in high end cinematography going forwards. Im not convinced about 8K display let me explain why. In the average European multiplex the screen diagonal is 55/56 feet, the ONLY place to see true 4K is in the front three rows any further back it become 2K resolution. The industry is not going to re-build hundreds of multiplexes and 8K viewing would put you in no mans land between the front row & the screen. The same principle applies to TVs our homes didnt suddenly become larger to accomodate larger screens to retain the same viewing distance. Without this a 65" 8K TV would require you to sit closer to the screen which becomes more uncomfortable for general viewing.

8K will help with compression artefacts when down sampling to 4K and in any concantination errors, it will support a wider color gamut and be great for cleaner VFX pulls etc and for IMAX.

Those theoretical viewing distance arguments are nonsense and only apply to large scale objects. Higher resolution makes a difference when small scale detail is the object of attention.

People make these arguments so they can resist upgrading their work output to higher quality products where the need to be rigorous in attention to detail is critical and shoddy work is obvious. It is more about protecting their backsides and enabling laziness than doing what is good for the consumer.

Small scale detail is only visible if your close enough for your eyes to resolve it. Visual acuity is affected by distance, since it is a matter of angular resolving power. In the case of human visual acuity, our acuity is about 1/60th of a degree on average, maybe about 1/80th of a degree at best. Get closer, and finer details are more visible, get farther and finder details can no longer be resolved independently. Sitting a few feet from even a moderately large TV (say 55") isn't exactly the most comfortable viewing circumstance.

At the distances I sit from my 4k screen in my home, which is actually shorter than the recommended distance for a 55" TV (my living room is long but narrow), I cannot see pixels. Detail is amazingly crisp. If the pixels were reduced in size by a factor of four, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. My visual acuity with my contacts in or glasses on is very good at 20/10, so it isn't like I'm incapable of resolving very fine detail.


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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2015, 04:10:45 PM »

Canon Rumors

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2015, 04:20:38 PM »
Finally, the association responsible for the BluRay reached an agreement on an optical disc capable of displaying 4K video. ::)
This will be called Ultra HD BluRay. 8)



More information on the site

http://thedigitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/051215_1230

I can't wait... as an audiophile and to some extent a videophile... if I'm going to spend my dollars to own or rent something, I want the absolute best source material and that comes from physical media (although you can download some lossless audio legally).

There will always be a market for it, as the vinyl market proves that you can make money in the niche game.
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ajfotofilmagem

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2015, 05:28:30 PM »
The BluRay 1080P has not yet become hegemonic in most countries, and now we wait for the Ultra HD BluRay 4K ...

In another CR topic someone says clearly see the superiority of 4K (compared to 1080P) on the screen of a cell phone. It would be impossible for the visual acuity of a normal human being, but perhaps the extraterrestrials participate in Canonrumors also ... 8)

Nothing wrong to want to be always up to date by investing in the newest video standard. But there are cases that need to be explained pou Freud. ???

Maybe it's just a desire to show "superiority" over other normal beings.
It may be a need to flaunt personal wealth, to mask their personal weaknesses. :-X

Let's be honest:
Mega companies must invest in more advanced technology to display its market leadership. But some people here already say they will wait for video 8K (32 megapixel) as 4K is no longer enough for him.

I understand that someone who finds insufficient 4K video to watch in the living room, you can not settle for only 50 megapixel photos. He should look for cameras capable of taking photographs of at least 200 megapixel.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 06:08:33 PM by ajfotofilmagem »

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Re: Now 4K can take over the world?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2015, 05:28:30 PM »