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Author Topic: Nikon's D4 Officially Official  (Read 41746 times)

AprilForever

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2012, 02:53:34 AM »
Exciting! This year sounds like it's going to be exciting!!!
What is truth?

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2012, 02:53:34 AM »

dr croubie

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2012, 02:53:50 AM »
Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO?

There's a quote in pretty much every review on any body I read. The words are different, but the gist is the same, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should use higher ISO". If the D300s had ISO 100k, I'm sure Canon could have made the 7D also have ISO100k if they wanted. Certainly it would have been unusable for anything but 'memories' shots, but it still would have looked good in the specs list...
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wockawocka

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2012, 06:53:56 AM »
Both the D4 and 1Dx are cameras that over and above deliver what 98% of all photographers need.

What's exciting is that perhaps, you will never need to buy another body again other than to replace a worn out one.
Even more exciting is the prospect that with so little missing from these two cameras the only way forward is a radical change to the way light is captured. You cannot beat the laws of physics, just work with them.

BTW, High ISO is great for scenes with low contrast. If you are shooting a wedding reception with a light above the bride and groom and the rest in the dark you can't just bump the ISO to fix it as it'll serve to blow them out.

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2012, 07:13:53 AM »
Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.

I would also expect competition on all fronts, not just the ISO front. FPS, AF capabilities and performance, etc. It seems a bit odd that Nikon would release competition to the 1DX before they even have a chance to get their hands on one and make sure their next flagship really is competition...

I think you're missing the point a little with this release.

The only real complaint the Nikon lot have with their D3s is the small MP size. Most of the pros only wanted 16, 18 at a push. We have to remember, at this level we are talking about a tool for a job, not something with which to practice a hobby and enjoy creating art.

The torch was not Nikon's to gain, but Canons to try and get back. Realistically, how many people will jump ship from this to the 1DX? Not very many - it will be enough to keep the Nikon pros happy.

As for how relevant is high ISO in the real world? Whose real world are you talking about?
Yours?
Or the press photographer who gets a grainy picture of a paramedic pumping attending Princess Diana in a poorly lit tunnel at 2 or 3 in the morning? Even as a Train Driver, high ISO was an important aspect of 'my real world'.

These cameras are designed to 'get that pic' that pays the rent under almost any condition, and i'm fairly sure that they will both do that - just that on current specs, Canon have regained the flagship pro series mantel from Nikon.

Noink Fanb0i

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2012, 07:34:10 AM »
Some reality check I read in another forum RE: "Highest Native ISO":

Quote
  Q: So it may be that Nikon (+ Aptiva?) have actually done it again and there's a new step forward in sensor high ISO tech?

A: More likely Nikon's firmware programmers. Changing the higher H ISO's to numbered ones is purely a firmware mod, and can be done at very short notice. Most likely an earlier firmware version had 12800, then Nikon saw Canon had released at 102400 felt that their 102400 was likely to be better than Canon's so any comparison would be in their favour so changed the names from H1 and H2 to 25600 and 51200. It is just a name change, no more.

Quote
There is certainly a new step forward in marketing claims. Don't expect the D4 ISO 102K to look like D3s 25K (except possibly in the JPEG output if the in-camera NR algorithms have been improved that much).

In the D3 line, the "H" designations are used when the analog chain is at max gain and the ADC output is numerically scaled to produce the additional boost. This may imply that the analog chain has much more gain capability in the D4, although I can't imagine that would make a significant difference in IQ at those stratospheric levels.

Quote
An optimistic scenario would be that a pixel in D4 can contain an equivalent of 64K levels, that is it is full 16 bit. Suppose "base" ISO is 100. ISO 102K means 10 bit shift, that leaves 6 bit useful not counting noise, and maybe about 3 stops of photographically usable DR if noise is taken into account. That makes me doubt 102K ISO is in fact "native" and usable enough for something larger than 5x7 prints. I think 5600 may be closer to "native".

Quote
Great marketing, though.

Look at how many people are excited and now expecting to have clean pictures shot in extreme low light, all cause the rumors say "native ISO 102k".


So, in short, people expecting the D4 would be "1-stop better" than the 1Dx at high ISO just because its advertised rumored native High ISO is "1-stop higher" than the earlier announced 1Dx would be in for a grainy & blotchy surprise.  :P
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Noink Fanb0i

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2012, 07:46:02 AM »
Anybody can read French? Looks like the earlier rumor was correct, D4's native maximum ISO is a mere 12800 with L: 50 & H4: 204800. And it's apparently a mere 45g lighter than the D3s.  :P


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Orion

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2012, 08:10:58 AM »
I think that the article is wrong. They siomply went to print before the correction came in.

btw, higher res images of ther article:

http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p6.jpg
 http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p7.jpg
 

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2012, 08:10:58 AM »

Cannon Man

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2012, 08:18:59 AM »
The price point could give out that nikon has maby combined the d3s and D3x together as the D4 because the specs are very similar.

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2012, 08:26:22 AM »
Quote
here is article about introduction of D4 https://wellsfargoadvisors.mworld.com/m/m.w?lp=GetStory&id=587442381

i don´t give much credit to ken rockwell.. in fact i don´t like him at all.

but someone pointed out that he wrote on his website that a D4 article that appeared on the web is fake.

i don´t know.. and i don´t really care.... just saying.
 

Justin

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2012, 09:41:00 AM »
I was excited for the lower weight, but 45g is pretty small. Really nothing anyone would notice. Maybe Canon will lower their price point further to $5999. That would be about the only thing that jumps out at me given the limited inofrmation available that the Nikon would seem to have that the Canon does not (a more attractive price).

neuroanatomist

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2012, 10:56:11 AM »
Here is the actual quote from the leaked praise release:

Quote
The unit takes the AF mode select switch from the D7000 and uses improved 51-point AF points with 9 cross-type sensor and a beefed up AF module allowing focus with an f/8 lens and faster (up from f/5.6). The AF detection range is now down to EV-2.0.

If true, that's pretty weak.  The D3 variants all had 15 f/5.6 crosses, not sure why they'd drop it to 9...
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epsiloneri

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2012, 11:30:48 AM »
So, in short, people expecting the D4 would be "1-stop better" than the 1Dx at high ISO just because its advertised rumored native High ISO is "1-stop higher" than the earlier announced 1Dx would be in for a grainy & blotchy surprise.  :P

I agree. Advertised ISO range has nothing to do with sensitivity. It's like asking how far your tele lens can shoot (something I'm asked from time to time ;D).

neuroanatomist

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2012, 11:40:21 AM »
It's like asking how far your tele lens can shoot (something I'm asked from time to time

That's easy.  "To infinity...and beyond!"
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2012, 11:40:21 AM »

jrista

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2012, 11:47:27 AM »
Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.

I would also expect competition on all fronts, not just the ISO front. FPS, AF capabilities and performance, etc. It seems a bit odd that Nikon would release competition to the 1DX before they even have a chance to get their hands on one and make sure their next flagship really is competition...

I think you're missing the point a little with this release.

The only real complaint the Nikon lot have with their D3s is the small MP size. Most of the pros only wanted 16, 18 at a push. We have to remember, at this level we are talking about a tool for a job, not something with which to practice a hobby and enjoy creating art.

The torch was not Nikon's to gain, but Canons to try and get back. Realistically, how many people will jump ship from this to the 1DX? Not very many - it will be enough to keep the Nikon pros happy.

As for how relevant is high ISO in the real world? Whose real world are you talking about?
Yours?
Or the press photographer who gets a grainy picture of a paramedic pumping attending Princess Diana in a poorly lit tunnel at 2 or 3 in the morning? Even as a Train Driver, high ISO was an important aspect of 'my real world'.

These cameras are designed to 'get that pic' that pays the rent under almost any condition, and i'm fairly sure that they will both do that - just that on current specs, Canon have regained the flagship pro series mantel from Nikon.

I'm not sure where your coming from with the whole "real-world" bit. I never mentioned real-world performance in my question. I'm fully aware of the value of high ISO...my question is, is Nikon's ISO 104k actually usable in the real world, or is it simply a marketing gimmick...simply slapping on a higher number as a pure measure of competition, without actually improving anything? From a real-world standpoint, if Nikon's ISO 104k, or even 51200, isn't really much better than its predecessors, then its a moot selling point, and Nikon would have serviced both themselves AND their customers better by waiting to release something that really brought beneficial, useful high ISO for those very real-world projects.

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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2012, 11:55:01 AM »
I've used translator to grasp the meaning of the article above, here's what it gave me:

Quote
Sensor: CMOS 16 MP FX format (24x36 mm)
Sensitivity: 100 to 12800 ISO (ext. 50 - 204 800)
Autofocus: 51 points
Viewfinder: pentaprism, 100% coverage, 0.7x magnification
FPS: 10 to 12 frames / second
Measurement: 3D Matrix II Color 91000 points
Screen: 8.1 cm
Video: Full HD 1080p
Memory cards: CF / XQD
Dimensions / weight: 160x157x91 mm / 1.34 kg
Price: € 5800

Everyone was waiting for the successor of the semi-pro D700 and the pro SLR D3s which will be replaced in February. The quantities required are not commensurate with those of the future "D800" that will address a much broader customer base. However, the D4 is one of really good news, and will return investments to the business of Nikon.

Reasonable resolution

The D4 replaces D3s of 2009 that was an evolution of the D3 released in 2007. The version of "rich-pixel" D3x, which appeared in 2009, is currently in the queue, waiting for possible "D4x". Rather than the image resolution, the main aim of D4 is sensitivity and speed. The new FX-format sensor (24x36 mm) that adopted 16 MP, is far from being unique these days when even amateur models can exceed 20 MP. But it is a figure that makes you more comfortable than 12 MP in D3s, and considered sufficient for reporters. Advantage of the less amount in photosites is that they perform better: the sensitivity is from ISO 100 to ISO 12800 and goes up to 204 800 ISO in extended mode! The ISO range is limited by default to ensure a relatively quick process in burst that is announced to be 10 frames / second (instead of 9 frames / second of the D3s).

The fastest of all?

The unit will go up to 11 frames / second at full resolution, but without focusing after the first shot, and even to 12 frames / second in DX image format (8 MP). The shutter system (mirror included) has now reached a 400,000 life cycle. Considering the burst shooting speed D4 is the Nikon's fastest device ever made. Nikon states that the sensitivity of the focus points was improved, even if you work with teleconverters. Moreover, the selection and display of AF points have been simplified, as we have seen in the grip. On the other hand, the autofocus is supported not only by a brand new EXPEED processor, but a brand new 91 000 points measuring sensor. At this level, it's a real small image taker able to determine precisely the type of scene and location of the subject. The Nikon D4 is the first device capable of performing face recognition without using the main sensor, and thus reflex. We tested this successfully. An effort was also made on the reactivity of the AF contrast detection. The video feature lovers will also benefit – Nikon has clearly put their efforts in video in an attempt to gain the field largely monopolized by others.

Rival in size

Announced last November, but out in March, the new pro SLR Canon EOS-1DX will be the only rival for the D4. On paper it looks better (18 MP sensor, 61 AF points, maximum default sensitivity up to ISO 51200, 0.78x viewfinder, FPS of 12 to 14 frames / second ...), but it is known that the duel of the titans will be played on the ground according to their ability to capture the right image! The price of the Canon, still unknown at the time we loop...

See you next month for a full test!

P.S. Few sentences were removed, because they were meaningless after translation. Also I've rephrased some of those that were left to make them easy to read. Don't blame me for my poor English  ;)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 03:01:57 PM by nightbreath »
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Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2012, 11:55:01 AM »