November 22, 2017, 01:03:46 AM

Author Topic: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support  (Read 16857 times)

tron

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2016, 08:21:35 AM »
Allow me to post an Adobe related technical question here in order to avoid creating a new thread:

Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2016, 08:21:35 AM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2016, 10:00:10 AM »
Allow me to post an Adobe related technical question here in order to avoid creating a new thread:

Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?

No.

However if you write your settings to sidecar files (XMP) then some of them will be honored by the next program.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

tron

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2016, 11:41:09 AM »
Allow me to post an Adobe related technical question here in order to avoid creating a new thread:

Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?

No.

However if you write your settings to sidecar files (XMP) then some of them will be honored by the next program.
Thanks for answering. Yes I assumed .xmp files. So honored by the "next program" means that these setting will be able to be imported/translated/whatever  to future releases of DPP, DXO ? Even some settings and even in the future it's nice.

AvTvM

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2016, 12:45:09 PM »
Thanks for answering. Yes I assumed .xmp files. So honored by the "next program" means that these setting will be able to be imported/translated/whatever  to future releases of DPP, DXO ? Even some settings and even in the future it's nice.

??? I would not have any use for files, in which my settings/edits on RAW images are only "honored" at 10%, 25%, 50% or 80% ... and the rest not. If not 100% are carried over, I have to start all over anyways. I would then prefer to start from scratch, with clean files. 

As far as I know, even simply converting native format RAWs (eg. Canon .CR2) into DNG format prior to applying an settiings will already lose some information.

In effect, one loses all previous work and effort when switching from one RAW converter  / image processor to another. That's one of the main reasons Adobe has so many people by their balls.

LDS

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2016, 01:13:11 PM »
Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?

It's not so easy, because each vendor may use different algorithms for image processing, which could be a company "secret" (or even patented). Some settings could be almost "easy", i.e. white balance, other could be much more complex, i.e. sharpening. Lightroom itself supports different "processes", because some algorithms have been replaced by newer ones, which don't work the same way. A different application may try to read settings and apply what looks to be deliver the same result, but IMHO it's just an approximation and a starting point, when possible.

That's why, IMHO, it's better to develop and refine a workflow with a set of well known tools, even if not the best in every feature, than jump from a tool to another chasing "perfection".

tron

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2016, 10:01:32 AM »
Thanks PBD, AvTvM and LDS for your replies.

cayenne

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2016, 11:18:00 AM »
Is there a way in photo editing products to convert settings from one vendor to another. Can we import
Adobe settings to DXO, Canon DPP etc and vice versa?

It's not so easy, because each vendor may use different algorithms for image processing, which could be a company "secret" (or even patented). Some settings could be almost "easy", i.e. white balance, other could be much more complex, i.e. sharpening. Lightroom itself supports different "processes", because some algorithms have been replaced by newer ones, which don't work the same way. A different application may try to read settings and apply what looks to be deliver the same result, but IMHO it's just an approximation and a starting point, when possible.

That's why, IMHO, it's better to develop and refine a workflow with a set of well known tools, even if not the best in every feature, than jump from a tool to another chasing "perfection".

I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?

Thanks,

cayenne

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2016, 11:18:00 AM »

AvTvM

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2016, 12:13:33 PM »
I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?

Don't have a specific list, but any [proprietary] data fields in Canon's .CR2 that are not covered in .DNG format.
Not sure, how essential the "translation loss" is, but I do recall conversion to DNG is not "lossless". One of the reasons (other than Adobe) I never went down the DNG route ...

Maiaibing

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #53 on: December 20, 2016, 02:42:05 PM »
I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?

Don't have a specific list, but any [proprietary] data fields in Canon's .CR2 that are not covered in .DNG format.
Not sure, how essential the "translation loss" is, but I do recall conversion to DNG is not "lossless". One of the reasons (other than Adobe) I never went down the DNG route ...

Yup. Same here. Also, no reason to think DNG will laster longer than Canon's CR2. DNG cannot handle the 5DIV dual pixel. Who knows what else will come in the future? So you'll end up with a mixed bunch of file formets. What a mess. Overall, DNG conversion just adds a layer of complexity and uncertainty for no material gain whatsoever.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 02:44:57 PM by Maiaibing »

cayenne

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2017, 04:02:56 PM »
I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?

Don't have a specific list, but any [proprietary] data fields in Canon's .CR2 that are not covered in .DNG format.
Not sure, how essential the "translation loss" is, but I do recall conversion to DNG is not "lossless". One of the reasons (other than Adobe) I never went down the DNG route ...

Yup. Same here. Also, no reason to think DNG will laster longer than Canon's CR2. DNG cannot handle the 5DIV dual pixel. Who knows what else will come in the future? So you'll end up with a mixed bunch of file formets. What a mess. Overall, DNG conversion just adds a layer of complexity and uncertainty for no material gain whatsoever.

Hmm..well, I'd in the past year started bringing my images in as DNG's...so that while working with Lightroom, the edits I made would be kept in the DNG file along with the image, rather than having to generate and keep up with side car files in order to keep my edits if something happened and I restored from disk, etc.

I figured one file would be better than trying to keep up with two of them....or did I get something wrong there?

TIA,

cayenne

LDS

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2017, 06:46:14 PM »
Hmm..well, I'd in the past year started bringing my images in as DNG's...so that while working with Lightroom, the edits I made would be kept in the DNG file along with the image, rather than having to generate and keep up with side car files in order to keep my edits if something happened and I restored from disk, etc.

Someone likes to avoid it exactly because that means the next incremental backup would need to backup the whole DNG and not the far smaller sidecar file. If you only perform full backups on fast media is not a big issue, incremental backups on slower media could suffer from it. Rewriting a sidecar file is also quicker, but fast disks may make it irrelevant but for very large DNGs.

LDS

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2017, 06:57:03 PM »
I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?

May depend on the DNG converter used, and DNG format, but the real details only Adobe knows, if you use its converter.

Some specific Canon metadata may be lost. The RAW data are converted to the Adobe format, but that's AFAIK what happens anyway in memory when you edit a file in Lightroom (but the original RAW is never modified, though).

AvTvM

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2017, 08:38:54 PM »
I'd not heard this....what information do you lose exactly when you move from RAW (i.e. canon's native RAW) to .DNG?

May depend on the DNG converter used, and DNG format, but the real details only Adobe knows, if you use its converter.

Some specific Canon metadata may be lost. The RAW data are converted to the Adobe format, but that's AFAIK what happens anyway in memory when you edit a file in Lightroom (but the original RAW is never modified, though).

exactly. i also prefer to let adobe only create sidecar recipe files rather than converting my raws or messing around in undocumented adobe ways with them. 

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2017, 08:38:54 PM »

cayenne

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2017, 11:33:06 AM »
Hmm..well, I'd in the past year started bringing my images in as DNG's...so that while working with Lightroom, the edits I made would be kept in the DNG file along with the image, rather than having to generate and keep up with side car files in order to keep my edits if something happened and I restored from disk, etc.

Someone likes to avoid it exactly because that means the next incremental backup would need to backup the whole DNG and not the far smaller sidecar file. If you only perform full backups on fast media is not a big issue, incremental backups on slower media could suffer from it. Rewriting a sidecar file is also quicker, but fast disks may make it irrelevant but for very large DNGs.

Well, my problem was.....after using LR for about 2+ years, I found that it didn't automatically create those side car files...you had to manually click some buttons in LR to get it to generate them.

So, going forward I went with DNG.....and when I find time, going back through all images to try to find which ones need side car files generated.

My problem is too...I archived some earlier ones off the main disk...and they have no side car files and not sure what to do with those as they are likely not in catalog any more.

Hey...you have to start learning somewhere.
:)


cayenne

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Re: Adobe Lightroom CC 2015.8 Now Available, Adds EOS M5 Support
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2017, 11:33:06 AM »