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Author Topic: *BUSTED* Video Camera Rumors [CR1]  (Read 7772 times)

Canon Rumors

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*BUSTED* Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« on: November 07, 2010, 12:32:36 PM »
*Busted!* A couple of knowledgeable people wrote in and basically said all of this is poppycock. As with most highly detailed rumors, this one appears to be a rehash of old rumor wishlists.

Fun to talk about though!

Seriously though, this is where my lack of pro video knowledge rears its ugly head. I’ll figure something out in regards to video.

Pretty detailed stuff I received a pretty detailed rumor from an anonymous person. Usually when something is very detailed, it tends not to be true. However, I sent this information to a video guy and he gave me his opinion on what we’ve got here.

The rumor is a direct copy/paste from the email I received. Canon is apparently testing these 3 video cameras. The opinion of my friend is in italics.

1. Based upon the APS-C chip size (new sensorchip design) this new cam comes in a body which roughly looks like the XLH1 series. EF lens mount. Problems with moire are solved. Video looks much better than 7d vids, about 12 stops of dynamic range, clean pictures up to ISO 3200. 3 ND filters on board. 1920x1080p up to 60fps over HD-SDI out. 2K and 4K output possible, but not in the beginning, will be sold as additional hardwareupgrade. Codec: 4:2:2 50 MBit MPEG-2 Full HD . CF-Card slot and optional SD-Proxy. Pricerange $6-8K. Release scheduled for june/july 2011.

This sounds very much like a competitor to the panasonic af-100. All plausible specs to me based on the fact that the sensor they showed at the Canon EXPO was an aps-c sensor doing 4k video. I wouldn’t doubt that Canon is working on a video camera body that would challenge both af100 and the Red (which is where this rumor seems to be going).

2. Maybe most interesting to know, a revolutionary new 3-chip design (fullframe chips, new sensorchip design) is being tested. Absolutely stunning image quality in both laboratory and field tests (snowy + green nature); crisp sharp + most neutral colors with many distinguishable snow-whites, no clipped highlights even without ND’s (no build in ND). Up to about 20 stops of dynamic range possible (14-20 switchable + shiftable and special highlights preserving function). 2K and 4K raw output. over dual HD-SDI. Chrystal clear images up to about ISO 6000. This cam (intern codename, non official: “Yamato”) will sell for $20+K. Body design not finished yet, but will offer modular options.

20 stops of dynamic range is over the top. I don’t doubt that Canon’s working on some chip advances to get there, they’d be silly not to be trying to expand dynamic range! But 20? Most people put film at 15-16 stops. It almost sounds like they’re embedding some processing to prevent clipping of whites but I don’t know enough to understand. Though using different processing chips might explain that. Quite the rumor you’ve got there. I would also suspect that something like what is being talked about here might be out 2 or so years… my suspicion is that is still a testing platform for the future.

3. Same 3-chip design as Yamato but with smaller APS-C chip size in testing, but not finished yet. No known pricerange yet.

With the number of sensors they showed off a the Expo – one of them being 120m pixel sensor on an aps-c chip, I wouldn’t really put some of this out of the realm of the future.

Take this with a grain of salt, I expect some follow-up contact from this post.

cr

« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 01:20:22 PM by Canon Rumors »
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*BUSTED* Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« on: November 07, 2010, 12:32:36 PM »

visceralpsyche

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 12:43:04 PM »
If they're copying Red's implementation of HDRx (giving 18+ stops) in their upcoming Epic and Scarlet cameras then 20 stops wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility, but then again Epic is a 5K, 120fps camera the size of a Hasselblad, which looks to be coming out in the next six months (I have one on order), so it might still be too little, too late even IF the rumour was true.

Personally I'm not sure Canon WANT to compete at Red's level, but you never know...

Cheers from Japan,

Paul

x-vision

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 01:12:17 PM »
I just hope that Canon will release an affordable EF-mount video camera ASAP.

This way Canon's DSLR engineers won't have to spend their time implementing video features in DSLRs and instead will focus on traditional, still-camera features.

scalesusa

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 03:17:09 PM »
If it will be available June / july 2010, it should be in stores now.

A similar rumor with lower specs was posted march 2009 here:  http://www.gadgetfolder.com/rumors-canon-professional-camcorder-using-dslr-chips.html

Is the same person is just updating the rumor from time to time?  Perhaps Canon has been testing it for two years and now its closer to release?  It is too late for June or July 2010 though.

able

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 03:46:53 PM »
The first one sounds like a replacement for the XL-H1 and targeted as competition to Sony's HVM-EX3 camcorder. B&H Photo is no longer listing the XL-H1 camcorder models suggesting that a replacement is on the way. The recently announced XF300 and XF305 both featured fixed L Zoom lenses with image stabilization. The XL-H1 series featured replaceable lenses. This newer XF model probably features replaceable EF L IS lenses. If Canon adds a line of EF L IS lenses for cinematography to their existing cinema lense offering, those lenses could be used with Canon's still/video cameras to increase market share.

The second unit sounds like it is targeted to compete with the Sony HVM-350K (three 2/3" Exmor CMS sensors) shoulder mount camcorder and the third as competition to the Sony HVM-320K (3 / 1/2" Exmor CMS sensors) shoulder mount camcorder. Feature wise, the HVM-350K (20K USD) and HVM-320K (15K USD) are identical with the exception of sensor size and a blue grip on the lower part of the handle for the 320K.

What the above does is give Canon video users more of an upgrade path than currently exists. In the past, users had to move to Sony, Panasonic, JVC, or other camcorder makers when they needed to upgrade beyond the XL-H1.

Canon's video lineup has been targeted at the ENG market in the past. Competing against RED and in the EFP market doesn't seem likely at this point in time.

 

Canon Rumors

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 04:06:32 PM »
If it will be available June / july 2010, it should be in stores now.

A similar rumor with lower specs was posted march 2009 here:  http://www.gadgetfolder.com/rumors-canon-professional-camcorder-using-dslr-chips.html

Is the same person is just updating the rumor from time to time?  Perhaps Canon has been testing it for two years and now its closer to release?  It is too late for June or July 2010 though.

I updated the date, I was told it was a typo a few minutes after getting the first email.

There's always a chance things are in long testing stages and/or it's recycled. I am glad to read that none of this is out of the question.

cr
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Master_of_the_Universe

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 03:54:03 AM »
I don't believe either.

Sounds like a wishlish to me.


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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 03:54:03 AM »

L_IS_USM

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 06:31:31 AM »
A large-sensor video camera with flange distance which designed for SLR cameras?

I can imagine a full EF support (aperture control, IS and AF) by an adapter but not native EF mount.

dstrisept

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 12:22:54 PM »


2K and 4K output possible, but not in the beginning, will be sold as additional hardwareupgrade. Codec: 4:2:2 50 MBit MPEG-2 Full HD.


2K and 4K sounds like it could be possible, but highly doubtful it will be a simple hardware upgrade. Maybe down the road they will offer it in a newer version of this rumored camera, unless they really want to try to compete with RED. Also it doesn't make sense to me that they would use MPEG-2, they use MPEG-4 (H.264) now, which is over twice as efficient, I don't see them taking a step backwards to MPEG-2.

esplak

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 07:01:51 PM »
The first camera (APS-C) specs seems very plausible. The 12 stop range is possible if there is a raw output. The hardware upgrade for 2K/4K it will be for the output connectors. The MPEG2 50Mbit is also rational since the last two camcorder outings (XF 300/XF100) from CANON use this compression. The rumor is floating for over a year and probably the camera is now ready.
Definitely, an introduction of a EF-S, high ratio zoom lens is needed for video work.
The "Yamato" rumor is less believable. A 3chip design needs a splitting prism and therefore has different flange to sensor distance, so it will be incompatible with EF full frame lenses. CANON makes video lenses for 2/3inch 3 chip video cameras, but those cannot cover Full Frame.  Either the 3 chips are sandwiched or a new set of exclusive lenses must be developed (highly unlikely). On the other hand the 3 chips make up for the HDR like dynamic range.

Catastrophile

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Re: Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 05:36:49 AM »
Quoting a sentence from the first paragraph in italics above (part of CR's friend's opinion of the rumor) :
"the sensor they showed at the Canon EXPO was an aps-c sensor doing 4k video"
, well as far as I know, the concept 4k camera shown in the NYC & Paris EXPO's earlier this year, had a 2/3" sensor not an APS-C. CR should rely on better informed friends in assessing the credibility of CR1 rumors.

Also when you say that detailed rumors tend to be false rumors, you are giving away one of your
"detection" methods, people who want to send you false info will be careful not to write a detailed description of their wet dream next time. And those who have true detailed info will be reluctant to send you all what they know.

able

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Re: *BUSTED* Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »
Regarding EF mount, Zeiss has already released full lines of their cine prime lenses for both Canon EF and Nikon. Canon does offer prime cine lenses, but currently not in EF mount.

Also note that Canon has had a EF mount adapter on the market for their min-DV cameras for many years.

The XF300 and XF305 have 18x zoom lenses with image stabilization and these have the L designation. They need to release a replacement for the XL series (big brother to the XF300/XF305) and it needs to feature replaceable lenses. I seriously doubt if Canon will release a camcorder with interchangeable lenses for a new XF 3xx series model without image stabilization. Not unless Canon develops a low-cost version of their existing optical image stabilization adapters for cine zoom lenses which currently sell for 12K or so. In any case, they need to release at least two interchangeable lenses for the upcoming XF model (most likely, an 18x zoom and a wide-angle zoom), regardless of the mount they use. 

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Re: *BUSTED* Video Camera Rumors [CR1]
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »