April 26, 2018, 07:45:27 PM

Author Topic: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer  (Read 98243 times)

midluk

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2017, 01:39:22 PM »
Why no weather sealing?

I thought I saw that the A9 was sealed, but apparently not?  This is all I found from the Sony launch website.  This would appear that they are in some tap-dancing middle ground between claiming it is weather-sealed vs. not saying anything at all.
Canon also does not make any hard claims when it comes to weather sealing and denies any liability.
"It is weather sealed up to the degree it is not. "
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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2017, 01:39:22 PM »

bholliman

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2017, 01:40:36 PM »

It's funny you just asked that as PP just tried to lay out a few arguments for such a move:
https://petapixel.com/2017/04/20/sony-a9-feature-will-make-pros-switch/

- A

The PP article seems to be pretty pro-Sony, apparently buying into the recent mis-information (selective statistics?) about Sony displacing Nikon at #2 for FF systems.  They also imply that many pro photographers have been migrating from Canon/Nikon to Sony and this may escalate the shift.

Personally, I can't imagine that 20 fps vs. 16 is that big a deal, but then I'm not a sports photographer.  PP thinks the silent shutter is very significant, and maybe it is for some uses.  1/32,000 max shutter speed, nice, but pretty limited uses. 
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 01:45:39 PM by bholliman »
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tiggy@mac.com

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2017, 01:42:23 PM »
I will say this... I am thinking about the 1dX Mark II, and I'm currently borrowing one from CPS to evaluate.

These specs are impressive enough for me to think about Sony, despite my personal experience with their terrible service.

I'd need to see some weather proofing, decent AF on Canon native glass with adapter. But it's now in the consideration envelope.

Just curious, what specs/features would make you consider an a9 over a 1DxII?  Both cost more than what I'm willing to spend as an amature/enthusiast, so I'm just an interested observer.  But, what would the a9 give you that the 1DxII can't?

One frustration I'm seeing with the 1dx2 that I have right now (must return on Friday) is that it's only 20mp. I think I've been spoiled by the 30mp on my 5d4, coupled with the same on-chip ADC giving me fantastic file flexibility. I'm in Virginia right now shooting eagles and ospreys, and I'm finding that the 50 percent more mp on the 5D4 makes a big difference. Of course, the downside of the 5d4 is the anemic fps. Sony seems to have solved the fps issue better than anyone, and the 24mp would be more adequate.

As an action/wildlife guy, the Canon consistency and sanity of its menu system is important to me, and Sony needs much improvement on that. Will be interesting to see if the a9 makes any progress on that front, as well as whether there is weatherproofing, file compression or various other previous Sony bugaboos. The battery life sounds abysmal. I regularly shoot 2000 frames in a few hours when doing action at high fps. Switching four times would mean I'd likely loose a few series in the scrum of changing batteries.

I'm not saying I'm going to pre-order, but given my timeframe (within 6-12 months), I'll be watching real-world reviews carefully. If there are lots of people like me, this doesn't doom Canon, but it does potentially chip away at the marketshare in a small way. This is not a bad thing at all. The worst thing for all of us - Canon fanboys included - is that Sony packs up like Samsung and stops acting as a competitive nudge to Canon.

I might see if I can rent the A9 in a few months along with an adapter to test out the Canon big whites, and perhaps a Sigma 500.

bholliman

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2017, 01:50:25 PM »
I will say this... I am thinking about the 1dX Mark II, and I'm currently borrowing one from CPS to evaluate.

These specs are impressive enough for me to think about Sony, despite my personal experience with their terrible service.

I'd need to see some weather proofing, decent AF on Canon native glass with adapter. But it's now in the consideration envelope.

Just curious, what specs/features would make you consider an a9 over a 1DxII?  Both cost more than what I'm willing to spend as an amature/enthusiast, so I'm just an interested observer.  But, what would the a9 give you that the 1DxII can't?

One frustration I'm seeing with the 1dx2 that I have right now (must return on Friday) is that it's only 20mp. I think I've been spoiled by the 30mp on my 5d4, coupled with the same on-chip ADC giving me fantastic file flexibility. I'm in Virginia right now shooting eagles and ospreys, and I'm finding that the 50 percent more mp on the 5D4 makes a big difference. Of course, the downside of the 5d4 is the anemic fps. Sony seems to have solved the fps issue better than anyone, and the 24mp would be more adequate.

As an action/wildlife guy, the Canon consistency and sanity of its menu system is important to me, and Sony needs much improvement on that. Will be interesting to see if the a9 makes any progress on that front, as well as whether there is weatherproofing, file compression or various other previous Sony bugaboos. The battery life sounds abysmal. I regularly shoot 2000 frames in a few hours when doing action at high fps. Switching four times would mean I'd likely loose a few series in the scrum of changing batteries.

I'm not saying I'm going to pre-order, but given my timeframe (within 6-12 months), I'll be watching real-world reviews carefully. If there are lots of people like me, this doesn't doom Canon, but it does potentially chip away at the marketshare in a small way. This is not a bad thing at all. The worst thing for all of us - Canon fanboys included - is that Sony packs up like Samsung and stops acting as a competitive nudge to Canon.

I might see if I can rent the A9 in a few months along with an adapter to test out the Canon big whites, and perhaps a Sigma 500.

Some good points!  To me until Sony improves their service and support they won't be able to fully complete with the vast majority of sports and wildlife pros, but I'm sure they can pull some consumers away from C/N.

I agree that competition is a very good thing for the consumer. 
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tiggy@mac.com

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2017, 01:53:17 PM »
Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: silence.

The 1DX2 and the 5D4 "silent" modes are like a Monty Python running gag. I'm trying to take pictures of quail coveys from 15 feet, and this might as well be a 20 gauge shotgun.

I took a picture of this guy below yesterday evening with the 1DX2 in "silent" mode. Think he stuck around?

Don Haines

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2017, 01:59:46 PM »
Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: silence.

The 1DX2 and the 5D4 "silent" modes are like a Monty Python running gag. I'm trying to take pictures of quail coveys from 15 feet, and this might as well be a 20 gauge shotgun.

I took a picture of this guy below yesterday evening with the 1DX2 in "silent" mode. Think he stuck around?
I agree.

I took this shot with my iPad and the bunnies did not move.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2017, 02:23:19 PM »
You guys just need to find less skittish bunnies (well, not you, Don – you need to eat yours).  We frequently have 4-6 of them in our yard, they don't even flinch with my 1D X burst shooting, and they wait until my kids run to within a couple of meters of them before bolting.  On the flip side, when the spring bulbs start coming up and are promptly mowed down by a herd of bunnies, tiggy's 20-gauge seems worthy of consideration.
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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2017, 02:23:19 PM »

Kit Lens Jockey

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2017, 02:30:38 PM »
I really enjoy how a contentious discussion about Canon's market dominance has devolved into posting bunny photos. ::)

benkam

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2017, 02:32:54 PM »
The market imperative is that as industry leader, they are expected to continue to lead in innovation.

So, your business degree is from Bob's Tackle Shop and School for Business and Stuff?  You should have checked their accreditation status before matriculating... 

Okey-dokey, thanks for the personal attacks. Whatever makes you feel big in your small mind, mate.

With your kind of attitude and in a sad world you had any influence with an industry leader, you'd be leading it the way of Nokia. Congrats.

ahsanford

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2017, 02:33:00 PM »
I really enjoy how a contentious discussion about Canon's market dominance has devolved into posting bunny photos. ::)

And Neuro's bunny was of course shot with an 800 prime from the next house over.   :P

- A

ahsanford

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2017, 02:41:55 PM »
With your kind of attitude and in a sad world you had any influence with an industry leader, you'd be leading it the way of Nokia. Congrats.

Why don't you throw Kodak or whoever else you want in there?  Big companies can fail due to bad decisions, poor vision, lack of innovation, etc.  We get it.

What we're saying is that it's not that dire a situation at present for Canon.  FF mirrorless is...

a) ...not an enormous part of the overall market

b) ...something Canon can reasonably fast-follow in when the market says it's time to do so (people's exhibit A = the EOS M platform)

c) ...not driving many CaNikon's professionals to ditch their SLRs

d) ...not markedly better than an SLR.  It has strengths and weaknesses and is not the clearly best rig to buy for all needs.

e) ...only a certain portion of the appeal of an imaging platform.   Lenses matter.  Service matters.  Durability matters.  Resale value matters.  An A9 being released does very little to help those other items to improve in the near term.

So, yes, mirrorless FF is the future, but that future is not immiment, and Canon's in no danger of missing out on it.

- A

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2017, 02:49:18 PM »
I really enjoy how a contentious discussion about Canon's market dominance has devolved into posting bunny photos. ::)

And Neuro's bunny was of course shot with an 800 prime from the next house over.   :P

Lol.  That one was with the 70-300L, I was laying down in my yard near the bunny.  But...this one is with the 600/4L IS II, the bunny was still in my yard, but I was inside my house shooting out the window.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2017, 02:57:53 PM »
The market imperative is that as industry leader, they are expected to continue to lead in innovation.

So, your business degree is from Bob's Tackle Shop and School for Business and Stuff?  You should have checked their accreditation status before matriculating... 

Okey-dokey, thanks for the personal attacks. Whatever makes you feel big in your small mind, mate.

With your kind of attitude and in a sad world you had any influence with an industry leader, you'd be leading it the way of Nokia. Congrats.

If you're going to make ridiculous statements, being ridiculed is not unlikely.  Your prediciton of dire consequences for Canon if they don't release a FF MILC on your personal timetable is ludicrous.  As was pointed out previously, the analogies you're using are cases of paradigm shifts, and if you're going to argue that MILCs, particularly FF MILCs, represent a paradigm shift for the ILC market, you'll merely make yourself look even more foolish than you have done so far.  But maybe your goal is to look foolish, and in that case, congrats to you.
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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2017, 02:57:53 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2017, 03:01:23 PM »
I really enjoy how a contentious discussion about Canon's market dominance has devolved into posting bunny photos. ::)

I'm thinking maybe you weren't around when discussions of DxO devolved into Squirrel-Fest 2014.  Lots of nuts back then, ask Don...   ;D
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2017, 03:02:13 PM »
With your kind of attitude and in a sad world you had any influence with an industry leader, you'd be leading it the way of Nokia. Congrats.

Why don't you throw Kodak or whoever else you want in there?  Big companies can fail due to bad decisions, poor vision, lack of innovation, etc.  We get it.

What we're saying is that it's not that dire a situation at present for Canon.  FF mirrorless is...

a) ...not an enormous part of the overall market

b) ...something Canon can reasonably fast-follow in when the market says it's time to do so (people's exhibit A = the EOS M platform)

c) ...not driving many CaNikon's professionals to ditch their SLRs

d) ...not markedly better than an SLR.  It has strengths and weaknesses and is not the clearly best rig to buy for all needs.

e) ...only a certain portion of the appeal of an imaging platform.   Lenses matter.  Service matters.  Durability matters.  Resale value matters.  An A9 being released does very little to help those other items to improve in the near term.

So, yes, mirrorless FF is the future, but that future is not immiment, and Canon's in no danger of missing out on it.

- A
Not only that, but with the M series Canon is actively engaged in the mirrorless and all the lessons learned with the M and all the experience gathered will help when they eventually do go FF mirrorless.
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Re: Canon must hurry up on FF mirrorless, Sony's new A9 is killer
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2017, 03:02:13 PM »