How does Canon respond to the D800?

[Maui5150]

I remember a few months ago someone on this forum was criticizing the 7D as having noise in the sky in his landscape shots and was questioning the 7D's credibility and usability in landscape photography.  For the last day, I've heard a lot of people mentioning how much they want Canon to produce a large MP camera for (studio and landscape).  For the hell of it, I decided to check out the sample photos of the D800... The photos I saw, all the way from ISO 25K all the way down to ISO 100, all of them I could detect traces of noise the in the static areas of the scenes, whether it be the sky or shadow in the seashore scene, to the backdrop on the woman and wild cat shot, all the way down to the high ISO shots which compared to the 5d2 (i know, it's unfair to compare the two), Does this noise detract others from wanting to use this camera for landscapes, or was the posts a few months ago regarding the 7D nitpicking about nothing, or are you willing to forgive it because it is full frame and 36Mp rather than an 18MP crop camera?  Just getting people 2  cents

for the sake of argument let's say the noise is the same (which IMO isnt'. the D800 looks cleaner than the 7D). AT 36MP the noise is lost in the sheer resolution when you print compared to the 7D print. Try it. Resize a D800 file to 18MP. So I fully dissagree that the D800 is not suited for landscape even if noise levels are the same as the 7D because at a whoping 2X times the number of pixels, you get someting in return.

If you have to crop it down, that sort of defeats the purpose.  And noise is noise.  It may not be as apparent when cropped, but by the same time, the image will not have nearly the detail it should... i.e. a decent performing 36 MP shot with low noise versus a cropped down 18 MP shot.

[wockawocka]

'How does Canon respond to the D800?'


By flipping two fingers and doing a mooney.

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I remember a few months ago someone on this forum was criticizing the 7D as having noise in the sky in his landscape shots and was questioning the 7D's credibility and usability in landscape photography.  For the last day, I've heard a lot of people mentioning how much they want Canon to produce a large MP camera for (studio and landscape).  For the hell of it, I decided to check out the sample photos of the D800... The photos I saw, all the way from ISO 25K all the way down to ISO 100, all of them I could detect traces of noise the in the static areas of the scenes, whether it be the sky or shadow in the seashore scene, to the backdrop on the woman and wild cat shot, all the way down to the high ISO shots which compared to the 5d2 (i know, it's unfair to compare the two), Does this noise detract others from wanting to use this camera for landscapes, or was the posts a few months ago regarding the 7D nitpicking about nothing, or are you willing to forgive it because it is full frame and 36Mp rather than an 18MP crop camera?  Just getting people 2  cents

for the sake of argument let's say the noise is the same (which IMO isnt'. the D800 looks cleaner than the 7D). AT 36MP the noise is lost in the sheer resolution when you print compared to the 7D print. Try it. Resize a D800 file to 18MP. So I fully dissagree that the D800 is not suited for landscape even if noise levels are the same as the 7D because at a whoping 2X times the number of pixels, you get someting in return.

If you have to crop it down, that sort of defeats the purpose.  And noise is noise.  It may not be as apparent when cropped, but by the same time, the image will not have nearly the detail it should... i.e. a decent performing 36 MP shot with low noise versus a cropped down 18 MP shot.

But the point is with higher MP you can either have more detail or the same noise, depending upon what works best for each situation. With lower MP you have no option.

[Bruce Photography]

I do think Nikon overcompensated, but it also has to do with what Sony could deliver in terms of sensors. Often the design is limited by the Technology/ supply chain available to a manufacturer. Nikon wanted to respond to the market with a high MP body(s)... Sony made the sensor available to them and they went for it.

In case of Canon, I think they realize that the 18-22mp is the sweet spot for enough resolution/DR/ISO/Noise/Airydisc. I think they will stay at this level for a while. This optimum combinition can satisfy a very high number of customers.

If CR Guy's numbers are spot on.... I have my funds saved up. I will pull the plug on the 5D3 as soon as pre-orders are available!

According to the Nikon release, the D800 and the D800E use a Nikon developed sensor and NOT one from Sony.  Perhaps this is why they were able to finally break free of the low MP sensors and yet keep prices this low.  I would expect that Nikon will be able to make whatever kind of sensor they want without being limited by their Sony connection.

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I do think Nikon overcompensated, but it also has to do with what Sony could deliver in terms of sensors. Often the design is limited by the Technology/ supply chain available to a manufacturer. Nikon wanted to respond to the market with a high MP body(s)... Sony made the sensor available to them and they went for it.

In case of Canon, I think they realize that the 18-22mp is the sweet spot for enough resolution/DR/ISO/Noise/Airydisc. I think they will stay at this level for a while. This optimum combinition can satisfy a very high number of customers.

If CR Guy's numbers are spot on.... I have my funds saved up. I will pull the plug on the 5D3 as soon as pre-orders are available!

According to the Nikon release, the D800 and the D800E use a Nikon developed sensor and NOT one from Sony.  Perhaps this is why they were able to finally break free of the low MP sensors and yet keep prices this low.  I would expect that Nikon will be able to make whatever kind of sensor they want without being limited by their Sony connection.

Are we sure it's not a Sony base design with modifications requested by Nikon as in the past? SOmetimes they have called those Nikon developed even though Sony did the bulk of it.

[poias]

I do think Nikon overcompensated, but it also has to do with what Sony could deliver in terms of sensors. Often the design is limited by the Technology/ supply chain available to a manufacturer. Nikon wanted to respond to the market with a high MP body(s)... Sony made the sensor available to them and they went for it.

In case of Canon, I think they realize that the 18-22mp is the sweet spot for enough resolution/DR/ISO/Noise/Airydisc. I think they will stay at this level for a while. This optimum combinition can satisfy a very high number of customers.

If CR Guy's numbers are spot on.... I have my funds saved up. I will pull the plug on the 5D3 as soon as pre-orders are available!

According to the Nikon release, the D800 and the D800E use a Nikon developed sensor and NOT one from Sony.  Perhaps this is why they were able to finally break free of the low MP sensors and yet keep prices this low.  I would expect that Nikon will be able to make whatever kind of sensor they want without being limited by their Sony connection.

Are we sure it's not a Sony base design with modifications requested by Nikon as in the past? SOmetimes they have called those Nikon developed even though Sony did the bulk of it.

SItuation with Nikon-Sony is like Apple-FoxConn. Basically, Nikon designs it, ala Apple, and Foxconn manufactures it, ala Sony.

[macfly]

Well since I'll be getting one in the first batch I'll do some direct side by side comparisons with my 1Ds Mklll and can post them here if you're interested, but of course the glass will be a variable too, not just the sensor. Anyhow I need to do it to for myself to know what I'm dealing with, so happy to share.

[waving_odd]

The same guy, Masaya Maeda (Chief Executive of Image Communication Products Operations), who talked about Canon mirrorless system invited some CP+ journalists to visit Canon's headquarters in Tokyo.

He commented the following about D800 and 5D2's successor.

"...Regarding how Canon responds to the competition from Nikon's D800 and the concern of the successor of 5D Mark II, Maeda indicates that although he cannot leak information about un-announced product, the way Canon develops new product is to satisfy the needs of professional photographers.  For instance, the introduction of EOS-1D X is to satisfy professional photographers to photoshoot sports events like the Olympics, in terms of their requirement of high FPS and high image quality under high ISO settings.  If Canon thinks the market wants the high resolution models such as the 30+ MP of Nikon's D800, they can easily develop such products..."

"...对于佳能如何应对尼康D800的竞争，以及5DMarkII的后续机型的问题。真容田雅也表示，他虽然不能透露未公布的产品的信息，不过佳能开发新产品是以能够满足专业摄影师需求为目标的。例如，EOS-1D X的推出，就是为了满足职业摄影师在拍摄奥运会等体育运动时对高速连拍，以及高感光度下的高画质的需求。如果佳能认为市场对于像尼康D800这样3000万像素的高像素机型有需求，佳能开发此类产品也非常容易..."

Here's the original article in Chinese.

[V8Beast]

Well since I'll be getting one in the first batch I'll do some direct side by side comparisons with my 1Ds Mklll and can post them here if you're interested, but of course the glass will be a variable too, not just the sensor. Anyhow I need to do it to for myself to know what I'm dealing with, so happy to share.

Hopefully I'll be getting one of the first batches of the D800 as well. I'll also be doing my own comparisons as I'm particularly interested how the noise and dynamic range of the D800 will stack up to the 1DsIII. That said, I wouldn't bother posting comparisons on here if the D800's images are superior in any way, shape, or form. Facts have a way of really upsetting the fanboys. 

[K-amps]

Well since I'll be getting one in the first batch I'll do some direct side by side comparisons with my 1Ds Mklll and can post them here if you're interested, but of course the glass will be a variable too, not just the sensor. Anyhow I need to do it to for myself to know what I'm dealing with, so happy to share.

Hopefully I'll be getting one of the first batches of the D800 as well. I'll also be doing my own comparisons as I'm particularly interested how the noise and dynamic range of the D800 will stack up to the 1DsIII. That said, I wouldn't bother posting comparisons on here if the D800's images are superior in any way, shape, or form. Facts have a way of really upsetting the fanboys.

I would like to see them, if you care to post. 

[WarStreet]

Well since I'll be getting one in the first batch I'll do some direct side by side comparisons with my 1Ds Mklll and can post them here if you're interested, but of course the glass will be a variable too, not just the sensor. Anyhow I need to do it to for myself to know what I'm dealing with, so happy to share.

When doing the comparison, would you mind to downscale the D800 to the same size of the 1DsIII, so that the comparison will be a realistic one representing the same print size. Thanks.