December 16, 2017, 05:54:53 AM

Author Topic: 5DSr successor  (Read 9897 times)

jeanluc

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5DSr successor
« on: July 08, 2017, 09:23:32 AM »
Now that we have the "next-Gen" sensors on a rebel, 6D2, 5D4, M5 and looks like a 7D2, I wonder on how long
it will be before the 5DSr gets an upgrade?

I remember a year or so ago CR Guy indicated that they got info about a faster-than-usual upgrade to the DSr.

I hope they do this. When the 5D4 came out I really debated about whether to get it or upgrade my 5D3 to the DSr not only for the resolution but also better handling of shadow noise.

I ended up getting the 5D4, expecting a nice but minor improvement from the 5D3. It actually is a lot better and I have had to do a lot less exposure blending etc in high DR landscape settings. I am jealous of the tilt/flip screen on the 6D2, but I need the durability, sealing etc of the 5D4 and I want all the resolution the 5D4 brings.

So I am glad I went with the next gen, as it IMHO it is quite a bit better for what I do.

Having said that, file size is bigger etc so I hope that if they do upgrade the DSr, they keep the resolution around 50MP or so. If the same level of improvement I saw when going from 5D3 to 5d4 happens, you will have an awesome camera with still very high resolution.

I think 120 Mp files would make this a camera that a lot of people would theoretically want, but just not buy due to the fact that at that point, speed and storage become real issues. For some pros it would be great, but with the IQ you get in the 5D4 and 6D2 a lot of us would likely stick to those.

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5DSr successor
« on: July 08, 2017, 09:23:32 AM »

Talys

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 11:52:32 AM »
The problem with resolutions much higher than 50 megapixels isn't just the storage, but the transfer.  Thinking of transferring a day's worth of 120 megapixel RAW file from anything short of an SSD makes me a little queasy =X

The other problem with that resolution would be that I think it exceeds the capability of a lot of lenses :D

I think the better route to go would be better 50MP pictures and other desirable, non-megapixel upgrades.

Normalnorm

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 12:18:44 PM »
Improvements I would like to see would be a LV shooting experience that was a fast and smooth as the Sony. I would love a tilt screen that allows me to more easily compose and focus and shoot without the Rube Goldberg clatter and clunk of the current setup that makes the shooting slow and vibration prone.

ahsanford

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 01:32:04 PM »
I find the 'when will the 5DS R get updated?' discussion a fascinating one.

On one hand, Canon historically does not update big ticket items (1D/5D/6D, etc.) often -- usually in the 4+ year sort of timetable these days.  That would put the 5DS out sometime in the second half of 2019.

BUT...

Canon has a very slick cadence of announcing the 1DX update, then the 5D update, then the 6D update.  New tech gets rolled out, and though some features are withheld or left out of the 5D and/or 6D as we'd expect, some 'platform tech' gets rolled out that every camera enjoys (DPAF, touchscreen, anti-flicker, etc.).  It's a logical progression that rolls out gear that looks/feels consistent and familiar for those whose 2nd camera isn't the same as their primary camera.  It's a really smart and practical rollout process for Canon, IMHO.

And right now the 5DS cameras are 'out of sync' with those updates.  That creates some feature envy and capability disconnects with the 5D and 5DS lines.  For instance, the 5DS got a massive throughput boost and Wifi SD functionality while the 5D3 did not.  Now the 5D4 is critically packing on-chip ADC sensor hotness while the 5DS is left with last-gen sensor DR.  Also, that 'meh' sort of overlooked 5D4 feature -- DPRAW -- may be more valuable to a 50 MP rig than a 30 MP rig.

So there's an interesting feature tug of war in which it might make sense to accelerate the 5DS2 / 5DSR 2 to fall more in-line with Canon's cadence of FF releases.  That would see to it that the 5D / 5DS would achieve 'feature parity' and Canonites wouldn't have to choose between high resolution or best possible DR.

Just a thought.

- A

bholliman

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 01:35:32 PM »
I'm still very happy with my 5DsR, but would certainly look at upgrading when the MkII comes along.  A tilt touch screen LCD would be great and the new on-chip ADC sensor design would reduce noise at higher ISO's.

Improvements I would like to see would be a LV shooting experience that was a fast and smooth as the Sony...

I use my 5DsR in LV all the time to shoot landscapes and I think the experience is pretty good, the only thing missing for me would be a tilt LCD that would make access easier when shooting at ground level or up high.  As I get older,  its harder to get down in the mud to see the LCD when shooting a sunrise.

I have no Sony experience, what is better about their LV implementation?
5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LIS II, 100-400mm II
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ajfotofilmagem

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 01:58:32 PM »
I'm still very happy with my 5DsR, but would certainly look at upgrading when the MkII comes along.  A tilt touch screen LCD would be great and the new on-chip ADC sensor design would reduce noise at higher ISO's.
n fact, ADC on the chip has less noise in LOW ISO, and makes a small difference in high ISO. It also lets you lift the shadows much more in low ISO, without too much granulation.

ahsanford

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 02:23:10 PM »
I'm still very happy with my 5DsR, but would certainly look at upgrading when the MkII comes along.  A tilt touch screen LCD would be great and the new on-chip ADC sensor design would reduce noise at higher ISO's.
n fact, ADC on the chip has less noise in LOW ISO, and makes a small difference in high ISO. It also lets you lift the shadows much more in low ISO, without too much granulation.

+1.  On-chip ADC is gift to landscapers & studio folks, but perhaps less so to folks climbing up the ISO dial.  In the data from the before / after on-chip releases (5D3 vs. 5D4, 1DX1 vs. 1DX2, etc.) the big delta in performance is on the low ISO end, isn't it?

Canon's not exactly making the comparison easy as the next-gen rigs listed above have more resolution than their predecessors, which will confound the noise comparison.

- A

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 02:23:10 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 02:41:52 PM »
A new sensor design with dual pixels and on chip ADC is required.  If it has say 60MP, it may be a technical challenge.  Then, there is the relatively low production rate which likely leads to higher prices.  The 5D MK IV price is supposed to go up $200 tomorrow, so expect any new 5D SR successor to run $4500.  It would seem that next year might be the time.

However, Canon may just keep any replacement waiting for Sony to move to a high MP body.

bholliman

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2017, 03:08:42 PM »
I'm still very happy with my 5DsR, but would certainly look at upgrading when the MkII comes along.  A tilt touch screen LCD would be great and the new on-chip ADC sensor design would reduce noise at higher ISO's.
n fact, ADC on the chip has less noise in LOW ISO, and makes a small difference in high ISO. It also lets you lift the shadows much more in low ISO, without too much granulation.

Thanks for correcting this.  I was thinking there was improvement at higher ISO's as well.  I'm actually very happy with the low ISO performance of the 5DsR for landscapes.  I bracket and blend if I need additional dynamic range, the same as Sony and Nikon shooters do.
5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LIS II, 100-400mm II
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jeanluc

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2017, 03:20:23 PM »
I'm still very happy with my 5DsR, but would certainly look at upgrading when the MkII comes along.  A tilt touch screen LCD would be great and the new on-chip ADC sensor design would reduce noise at higher ISO's.

Improvements I would like to see would be a LV shooting experience that was a fast and smooth as the Sony...

I use my 5DsR in LV all the time to shoot landscapes and I think the experience is pretty good, the only thing missing for me would be a tilt LCD that would make access easier when shooting at ground level or up high.  As I get older,  its harder to get down in the mud to see the LCD when shooting a sunrise.

I have no Sony experience, what is better about their LV implementation?


Not sure about Sony, since I don't use the A7 series, but it's probably pretty good.

My M5 has an EVF, and it works just fine.

I shoot all my landscapes using LV in my 5D4 as well, and I don't feel the EVF is really any "better".

I must say one of the main things I really like about the 5D4 is the touch screen. This has greatly sped up a lot of LV shots. The dual pixel phase detect AF rocks, even in very low light. Any landscape shooter who has not used this yet will love it.

Any 5DSr upgrade will surely have those features. And I totally agree about the tilt/flip screen. The M5 has one and it makes it a lot easier to want to put your camera down for those low-to-the-ground shots without the wet, muddy gymnastics...




ahsanford

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2017, 03:45:48 PM »
Not sure about Sony, since I don't use the A7 series, but it's probably pretty good.

My M5 has an EVF, and it works just fine.

I shoot all my landscapes using LV in my 5D4 as well, and I don't feel the EVF is really any "better".

...for landscape work, sure.  But the EVF has the critical upside over Liveview in ergonomics when you are not on a tripod.  Being able to shoot off the tripod without holding your camera 12" away from your face is a big deal.  Holding a camera up to your eye in a standard (non-tripod) fashion is much more stable, and I personally am looking forward to that to bolster my 'viewfinder experience' -- realtime histo, MF lens focus peaking, etc.  Those could be huge upsides over the relatively paltry information my 5D3's OVF gives me.

I'm no mirrorless fanboy -- I still shoot an SLR for a reason.  But there are situations where an EVF will solve a number of OVF limitations.

- A

jolyonralph

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2017, 04:02:29 PM »
An upgrade to the 5DSR would be most welcome. DPAF and the more modern CMOS technology would be a great win.


The 5DSR essentially used the same generation CMOS tech as the 7D Mark II (4.1um pixel pitch), so replacing this in production with the 7D III does raise the possibility that they won't want to keep that CMOS fab line open just to produce sensors for the 5DS/SR, and instead will produce one based on the new sensor tech for the 7D Mark III.

No-one knows yet what the resolution of the 7D Mark III will be, but it wouldn't be an unfair guess to suggest they'll go for the tried and tested 3.75um pixel pitch of the 80D (etc) sensor.

If so, and if that is mirrored in the 5DSR Mark II, we'd expect to see the 5DSR Mark II having the following details:

Resolution: 60.8 megapixels
Pixel dimensions: 9546x6364 pixels. 
Jolyon Ralph

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Maiaibing

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2017, 04:10:10 PM »
That creates some feature envy and capability disconnects with the 5D and 5DS lines.  For instance, the 5DS got a massive throughput boost and Wifi SD functionality while the 5D3 did not.  Now the 5D4 is critically packing on-chip ADC sensor hotness while the 5DS is left with last-gen sensor DR.  Also, that 'meh' sort of overlooked 5D4 feature -- DPRAW -- may be more valuable to a 50 MP rig than a 30 MP rig.

DR difference from 5DIV to 5DS/R is not very large. 1 stop @ iso 100, 1/2 stop @ iso 200 and irrelevant past iso 400. Its even closer to the 1 DX II.

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2017, 04:10:10 PM »

scyrene

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2017, 04:16:31 PM »
If there's a big bump in resolution, e.g. to over a 100MP as some have suggested, then other features will suffer - frame rate for instance. I think there's enough room in the lineup that if they did release a very much higher resolution camera, to keep the current 5Ds(R), or a successor that has a similar resolution but is better in other ways. We'll never get everything in one body.
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Khalai

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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2017, 04:46:46 PM »
Not sure about Sony, since I don't use the A7 series, but it's probably pretty good.

My M5 has an EVF, and it works just fine.

I shoot all my landscapes using LV in my 5D4 as well, and I don't feel the EVF is really any "better".

...for landscape work, sure.  But the EVF has the critical upside over Liveview in ergonomics when you are not on a tripod.  Being able to shoot off the tripod without holding your camera 12" away from your face is a big deal.  Holding a camera up to your eye in a standard (non-tripod) fashion is much more stable, and I personally am looking forward to that to bolster my 'viewfinder experience' -- realtime histo, MF lens focus peaking, etc.  Those could be huge upsides over the relatively paltry information my 5D3's OVF gives me.

I'm no mirrorless fanboy -- I still shoot an SLR for a reason.  But there are situations where an EVF will solve a number of OVF limitations.

- A

With some MILC, you can actually tilt the screen upwards and shoot from the chest or hip. Quite stable, really, when you get the hang of it. Sony or Fuji has that and I really liked that. Part of me wished that Canon went with only tilt display instead of full articulated one in 6D II. But hey, I'm most likely one of the very few, who thinks that :)
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Re: 5DSr successor
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2017, 04:46:46 PM »