December 10, 2017, 09:26:36 PM

Author Topic: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]  (Read 15675 times)

-1

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2017, 10:52:54 PM »
The new highres cameras surely needs IS for more normal shutterspeeds at normal ISO on freehand. It, the 50/1.4 IS USM L will probably appear as "kittylense" to the 5Ds2 next year. Happy Babylonian New Year for those that celebrate it, BTW... Ice for them hangover heads are in the freezer! Repent next week! ;-ppp

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2017, 10:52:54 PM »

Ryananthony

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2017, 01:24:54 AM »
I've almost purchase a 50mm f1.2 so many times.  But I can never pull the trigger. I've also owned and sold the sigma 50art, and have come close to purchasing it again too. Hurry up Canon. I would love to see the 50 f1.4is come in at a similar size as the 50 f1.2 rather then the 35ii.

ahsanford

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2017, 01:33:12 AM »
I doubt that a prime lens could be made in any focal length that half the members of this forum would buy.  For many the main lens strategy is based on zooms--an UWA, a normal and a 70-200 or something like that.  In this context, the choice of primes is heavily based on personal preferences about focal length and personal tradeoffs among IQ, maximum aperture, stabilization, weight and cost.  This would seem to point to a strategy of trying to make a lot of money on each prime you make, since the potential market for any given prime is relatively small.

Fair -- I was referring to the folks that would want to own a 50 prime in general.  I should have specified that, my apologies.

Whereas certain primes just seem to delight their owners (135L and 35L II immediately come to mind), the 50 f/1.2L seems to have a number of skeptics for fairly mundane reasons we don't associate with modern L glass.  Sure, it can generate magic, but sometimes you just want to nail focus or want to take a sharp picture somewhere other than the center. 

Believe it or not, the old 50 f/1.4 USM actually serves my needs better than the 50L -- I am not cost-constrained and I still choose to use the 'lesser' instrument as it's sharper in the apertures I shoot and it's AF (though a little hunt-y) tends to do a better job.

Yet, I don't consider the EF 50mm f/1.4 USM a fine instrument by any means -- it, too, has a litany of deficiencies.  It's just the devil I know, and I choose to use it until Canon gives us a proper all-purpose 50mm lens.

- A

padam

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 03:11:58 AM »
Whatever it will be, it will increase in size, because it will be a 'true' internal focusing lens (besides the IS).

Yep, hence my heavily overused graphic (a doctored 35 f/2 IS, btw).  The 24/28/35 IS refresh lenses also went to internal focusing, and I've yet to hear anyone complain about their size.  I'll gladly take a small bump in size to kill off the dreaded 'protruding inner barrel got bumped' AF motor damage problem.

- A

If it's an L lens (very likely) then it will probably be closer to the Sigma 50 ART in size but a bit lighter, just like the 85 1.4 IS vs Sigma 85 1.4 ART (or the 35 1.4 L II which is actually even bigger)
But who knows, maybe they invent some new technology to reduce the number of elements.

CANONisOK

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2017, 03:50:50 AM »
Give us 55 or 58 mm. You will get more potential upgraders.
Why?  I'd like to hear your reasoning.
I would guess for the original commenter it's as simple as something filling the "ideal" niche in primes between 35mm and 85mm focal lengths. I have found that I've moved away from my 50mm usage over the years, while 35mm (wide-to-normal) and 85mm (portrait) get used much more frequently. Would a 60mm provide enough differentiation to lure me to buying a new lens? Probably not for me personally - but it might be different enough to appeal to somebody.
A few bodies, some flashes, a tripod here and there, a handful of lenses. Plenty of equipment, a lot of perseverance, but not enough talent (yet).

YuengLinger

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 04:01:35 AM »
The current 50mm f/1.2L is poison for photographers who DEPEND on photography for their livelihood.  Those of us who are "semi-pro" or enthusiasts can afford the luxury of using a finicky dog of a lens--while declaring it "magic."   ::)

C'mon, Canon, get off your duffs with the 50mm focal length!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 04:05:53 AM by YuengLinger »

wockawocka

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 04:59:43 AM »
Just refresh the 1.2. Apart from stopped down focus accuracy it's perfect.

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2017, 04:59:43 AM »

YuengLinger

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2017, 05:13:04 AM »
Just refresh the 1.2. Apart from stopped down focus accuracy it's perfect.

+1   (And a wonderful shot!)

jolyonralph

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2017, 06:13:08 AM »
I'm pretty certain currently produced 50mm f/1.2L lenses are generally better than older production
- if only due to vastly improved production and quality control procedures allowing for far less inter-copy variation.

Certainly my relatively recently produced (2015) 1.2 is excellent (even on my 5DSR),  and the older one I tried many years ago was a big disappointment, even on lower-quality sensors at the time.

Perhaps they should just update the electronics and the coatings and release a 50mm f/1.2L II   alongside the 50mm f/1.4L IS which is pretty much inevitable now after the good reaction to the 85
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traveller

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2017, 06:52:30 AM »
If they were going to produce the lens that you wanted, I think that it would have come out soon after the 35mm f/2 IS USM and 24/28mm f/2.8 IS USM series were released.

The 24/28/35 refresh was actually to retire three very old lenses that pre-dated the non-L USM primes entirely, I believe.  See chart, it's bit dated but you get the idea.

So those three got their own refresh wave while the 20 2.8 / 28 1.8 / 50 1.4 / 85 1.8 / 100 2 USM primes are still plugging away.  What's infuriating about those 5 lenses is that the 50 appears to be the only one that was saddled with Micro USM and that horrible length-changing (externally focusing / telescoping nonsense) sort of design.  If only the EF 50 f/1.4 USM was like all the others on that list -- especially the 85 f/1.8 -- I'd probably be happy with it as my small 50 prime.

I personally see a non-L USM prime update happening, possibly downgraded to Nano USM instead of ring USM in light of the underwhelming response to the 24/28/35 IS lenses (which are loved but were overpriced out of the gate). 

- A

I can see your point about the 50mm f/1.4 being upgraded along with the rest of the 'USM series' of non-L primes, trouble is that I'm not convinced that those lenses will be updated any time soon either. Neither do I agree with you five levels of lens classification, I see only three (of different vintages and technology levels) for all primes and zooms:
1) 'L'-series
2) Premium non-L (EF & EF-S)
3) Budget (EF & EF-S)

Canon clearly marks (1), so there is no doubt over which lenses fall into this category. Where the boundaries lie in terms of the others is up for debate and I'm not sure that Canon themselves have hard and fast rules about this, as their thinking seems to shift over time. I would argue that the old 24/28/35 f/2.8 AFD lenses were part of a series that was perhaps intended to be the only line below the 'L's. This would have also included the old 'version 1' of the 50mm f/1.8. This series got overtaken by advances in technology that led to the remaining lenses in the series gaining USM: in chronological order: the 100mm f/2 (1991), 85 f/1.8 (1992), 20mm f/2.8, 50 f/1.4 (1993) and 28 f/1.8 (1995 - and the last non-L, non-macro lens that Canon released until the 40mm STM). The 50mm f/1.8 is a bit of an aberration, as it managed to get downgraded to budget on the release of version II (in 1990) even before the 50 1.4 USM was available -perhaps this signal a shift in Canon's strategy around this time. It may have been Canon's original intention to downgrade all the original series by introducing premium USM variants, but it seems they never completed the set by introducing a 24 f/2 (?) USM or a 35 f/2 USM (until the 35 f/2 IS USM over a decade later).

If Canon were going to update the USM series primes, then the 28mm f/1.8 USM is the lens most in need, as it's easily the worst performer of the bunch, but the 28mm focal length became somewhat unfashionable years ago, when people started to prefer the 24mm. This was also true of the 50mm length, which declined in popularity versus the 35mm, but less so because at least the 50mm lenses were ultra cheap entry points to fast aperture primes. The 85 f1.8 USM is a very good lens (if now a bit behind the class leaders), which would benefit from a refresh, but I don't think we'll see one for a couple of years to give Canon the opportunity to upsell people to the new 85 f/1.4 L IS USM. That leaves the 100 f/2 USM, which was a totally neglected (except for macro) focal length by all manufacturers, right up until Nikon released their new 105 f/1.4. Again, I just can't see Canon updating this lens as most people prefer the 85mm and you are realistically only going to need one of these two. If there is a new 100mm lens, I think Canon will give it the 'L' treatment and a >= f/1.4 aperture.

I can see the advantage to Canon of having a complete non-L lineup as Nikon have a complete set in both f/1.4 and f/1.8 aperture from 24mm up to 85mm. However there is a differentiation danger (from the manufacturer's point of view) as a lot of Nikonians recommend the f/1.8 versions for being as sharp, cheaper and lighter, unless you are desperate for the extra 2/3rds stop.

Larsskv

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2017, 08:13:33 AM »
I'm pretty certain currently produced 50mm f/1.2L lenses are generally better than older production
- if only due to vastly improved production and quality control procedures allowing for far less inter-copy variation.

Certainly my relatively recently produced (2015) 1.2 is excellent (even on my 5DSR),  and the older one I tried many years ago was a big disappointment, even on lower-quality sensors at the time.

Perhaps they should just update the electronics and the coatings and release a 50mm f/1.2L II   alongside the 50mm f/1.4L IS which is pretty much inevitable now after the good reaction to the 85

I believe you are right. My 50L is less than a year old, and I just don't experience notable AF issues on neither my 1DXII or 5Ds, even when using the outer AF points. I should note that I don't use it much in the f1.2 - f1.8 range, so my experience at those apertures is limited.

I really do like the images I get from the 50L when shot at f2.

YuengLinger

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2017, 08:29:05 AM »
Keep it at 1.2, add a floating element, redesigned AF, and, yes, we have a winner.  But how much that would cost in $$ and weight, no idea.

Thanks, but I would want to use it at 1.2 - 2.0 often within six feet, but as is, this dog don't hunt.  Or when it does, it often brings back pinecones and sticks instead of the birdy.

I don't think Canon secretly upgraded anything in the current 1.2L; more likely, better AF in more recent bodies (and even a little firmware help) have made the lens slightly more useful.  But it could also be that those of you who gave the lens another chance after a few years simply developed better techniques generally, while also reading about workarounds.

That said, the current 1.2 has no place in the quiver of a photographer who DEPENDS on accuracy.  Except to remain there unused.  If only professional photographers who have no other source of income had time to chime in on these forums, we'd know to what extent my assertion is true.  Photographers who make a little money to pay for their fun, or are purely hobbyists, or have a trust fund to rely upon obviously don't have the same standards.  Which is probably why Canon has gotten away with perpetuating a clunker!

BillB

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2017, 08:53:24 AM »
I can appreciate your position on size, but this is generally a tradeoff with optical performance and aperture (& price). I own the EF 50mm f/1.4 and it is downright soft outside the very centre wide open, better at f/2 and very good at f/2.8 (comparable to the 24-70 f/2.8 L II). I would not be interested in upgrading to a new 50mm f/1.4 lens that simply updated the bodywork and AF motor -I want better optical performance too. Personally, I would be happy with paying Sigma Art money for a Canon 50mm f/2 that was tack sharp wide open, but this isn't going to happen now that they've updated the old 'plastic fantastic' to STM (it would look 'faster and better' than the more expensive lens!).

If they were going to produce the lens that you wanted, I think that it would have come out soon after the 35mm f/2 IS USM and 24/28mm f/2.8 IS USM series were released. The best that we can hope for now is that this is the last lens in the series that produced the 35mm f/1.4L USM II and 85mm f/1.4 IS USM lenses.

Most of Canon's relatively inexpensive prime lens designs go back to an era in which fewer people were shooting in color and zooms were not a serious option.  With digital, most people are shooting in color, which makes purple fringing and chromatic aberrations a much bigger deal, and there is the Internet to tell everybody that the Canon 85 f1.8 is a piece of crap because it has purple fringing and that the 50 f1.4 is soft below f2.8.  Zooms have improved to the point that they have seriously shrunk the market for primes, particularly moderately priced primes.

In this new era of digital color and quality zooms, the 35-28-24 series lenses are pretty much the only new moderately priced full frame lens designs that Canon has introduced apart from the pancake 40 and the tweak to the plastic fantastic 50mm.  Canon is still marketing quite a few of the old designs, and presumably people are still buying them, at least to some degree.  However, the experience with the 35-28-24 series shows the  price sensitivity of  the moderately priced prime lens market, and likely has also shown Canon that the demand for moderately priced primes isn't as big as they hoped when they introduced the 35-28-24 series.

So what does this say about a new Canon 50mm lens design?  My take is that the new 50mm design will most likely be an L. and if it isn't an L, the price is going to upset a lot of people.  One wildcard is the APS-C market, where the 50mm serves the same role as the 85mm does in full frame.  Maybe, that could tip the scales toward a smaller, more moderately priced 50mm.  Could there be an EF-S 50mm in our future?


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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2017, 08:53:24 AM »

meho1a

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2017, 09:12:27 AM »
If they were going to produce the lens that you wanted, I think that it would have come out soon after the 35mm f/2 IS USM and 24/28mm f/2.8 IS USM series were released.

The 24/28/35 refresh was actually to retire three very old lenses that pre-dated the non-L USM primes entirely, I believe.  See chart, it's bit dated but you get the idea.

So those three got their own refresh wave while the 20 2.8 / 28 1.8 / 50 1.4 / 85 1.8 / 100 2 USM primes are still plugging away.  What's infuriating about those 5 lenses is that the 50 appears to be the only one that was saddled with Micro USM and that horrible length-changing (externally focusing / telescoping nonsense) sort of design.  If only the EF 50 f/1.4 USM was like all the others on that list -- especially the 85 f/1.8 -- I'd probably be happy with it as my small 50 prime.

I personally see a non-L USM prime update happening, possibly downgraded to Nano USM instead of ring USM in light of the underwhelming response to the 24/28/35 IS lenses (which are loved but were overpriced out of the gate). 

- A


I think Canon firstly tried to divide their EF lenses into 2 groups.
Budget = 24mm, 28mm, 35 mm IS USM Probably they were planing also new 50, 85, maybe 20
Pro = faster L lenses

But then pro level Sigmas and Tamrons were released in similar price range as their planed "budget" range.
The price of those lenses went down quickly and now I suppose few would prefere budget Canon lens over Sigma or Tamron.
Therefore, Canon has probably concentrated on making two levels of L lenses. Very expensive and a bit less expensive. Probably the L sign is very good marketing material and people are prepared to pay more than for Sigmas just for L level quality.
 


jeffa4444

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2017, 09:31:01 AM »
I think it will almost certainly be a EF50mm f1.4L IS USM to follow the just announced EF85 f1.4L IS USM and the previous 35mm & 24mm. They will likely have a 28mm and a 100mm in the road map and then these constant aperture primes will become T1.5 video lenses followed by a new 135mm f2 lens.

I could be barking mad but they will follow the Sigma route with the future being more 4K video they would be crazy to overlook the DSLR videographers wanting a step-up from mix & match constant aperture lenses to one consistent.
Canon 5DS, Canon 6D, Canon 6D MKII,16-35 f4L IS USM, 17-40 f4L USM, 28 f2.8, 24-70mm f4L IS USM, 24-105 f4L IS USM, 100mm f2.8L IS USM, 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II, 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM, 50 f1.8 STM, 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM II, 1.4EX III, EOS 760D, EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM & others.

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Re: Here We Go Again, New 50mm L Coming in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2017, 09:31:01 AM »