November 20, 2017, 04:36:35 PM

Author Topic: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?  (Read 7111 times)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2017, 01:32:12 PM »


There are a number of other RAID/servers out there, and also configurations, including ones that let you set up you own personal cloud so you can access the data from any internet enabled device.

Hope this helps.

I recommend back up to RAID and you will be set.

scott

This is not so safe as some think. 

None of the consumer NAS units are very secure, and opening them to the internet with the weak security is very dangerous.  It takes a huge amount of time and effort to keep ahead of the exploits that hackers are using, and NAS security is months or years behind.

With new Ransomware attacks being launched frequently, a user needs to understand that they seek out and attack / lock any files on any attached device, so relying on a NAS for backup is not a safe plan. 

If your NAS can take snapshots, then so far, the snapshots cannot be compromised by Ransomware, and you can restore the files to a previous time.  Don't forget to use the feature.

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2017, 01:32:12 PM »

alvarow

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2017, 09:56:30 PM »
I keep everything on a local disk 8TB and a copy of it on Google drive ... whenever it goes to the disk from the card Drive syncs it, same with changes ... and a Google keeps revisions too. Expensive but works great.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2017, 10:13:13 PM »
It happened, my wife's SSD crashed and burned about 3 weeks ago.  Everything on the 1 TB SSD was lost. 

Fortunately, I had multiple backups, (Disk Images), one was only 4 days old, so I burned it to a hard drive while waiting for Sandisk to respond.

I've never had a company been so slow to react, it took them a week to respond with a request for information which was not available because the drive was dead.  Then another few days before they told me the return was approved and to use the return address being sent in a separate e-mail.  It never came, so I had to ask them to send it, after two weeks of this, I sent it off to them and have yet to hear back.

In the meantime, I bought a new SSD, it came in  2 days, and I reinstalled to it from the backup.  Its been running fine for 2 + weeks.  I had a couple of SSD's in reserve, but had gave them to my daughter.

Its going to be hard to convince me to buy anything from Sandisk.  Lexar has always had 1st class customer service, too bad they are going away.

alvarow

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2017, 10:40:36 PM »


Its going to be hard to convince me to buy anything from Sandisk.  Lexar has always had 1st class customer service, too bad they are going away.

We’re going off topic, but I urge you to take a look at Crucial... not the fastest around, but reliable, supports hardware encryption on Windows and great service from support. I buy from them or Intel.

privatebydesign

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2017, 11:14:00 PM »
4 bay RAID 5 NAS, with snapshot and checksummed file transfer. Plus a HDD in another country with all the important RAW files on it.

My commercial images have a short shelf life (typically two to three years) and little value historically so I don't care about 90% of the stuff I shoot.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

Orangutan

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2017, 11:30:34 PM »
Plus a HDD in another country with all the important RAW files on it.

Easier & cheaper to put that HD in a safe deposit box at a bank a mile from home.  Barring a very major major disaster (earthquake, volcano, Martian attack) that HD will be both safe and accessible.

notapro

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 12:01:41 AM »
For me, backing up photos once a month or so seems to be enough--or after a shoot with 200 or more images.

I'm using modest backup storage--A Western Digital two-disk system in RAID 0 (My Book Duo), 8 terabyte capacity.

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 12:01:41 AM »

Orangutan

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 12:12:48 AM »
For me, backing up photos once a month or so seems to be enough--or after a shoot with 200 or more images.

I'm using modest backup storage--A Western Digital two-disk system in RAID 0 (My Book Duo), 8 terabyte capacity.

Years ago I read one of those Q&A articles on backups, and one of the questions was "how often should I."  The answer was "how much data can you afford to lose."

If you're a pro you probably need to backup every shoot to multiple storage media.  If you're an amateur, you get to decide for yourself how valuable the photos are.

privatebydesign

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 07:57:26 AM »
Plus a HDD in another country with all the important RAW files on it.

Easier & cheaper to put that HD in a safe deposit box at a bank a mile from home.  Barring a very major major disaster (earthquake, volcano, Martian attack) that HD will be both safe and accessible.

You'd think that wouldn't you?

The locations are over 1,000 miles apart yet both got hit by the same hurricane earlier this year. The backup got hit by two hurricanes and two floods and the entire country is devastated, for what it's worth I haven't lost a single file.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

Orangutan

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 08:40:51 AM »
Plus a HDD in another country with all the important RAW files on it.

Easier & cheaper to put that HD in a safe deposit box at a bank a mile from home.  Barring a very major major disaster (earthquake, volcano, Martian attack) that HD will be both safe and accessible.

You'd think that wouldn't you?

The locations are over 1,000 miles apart yet both got hit by the same hurricane earlier this year. The backup got hit by two hurricanes and two floods and the entire country is devastated, for what it's worth I haven't lost a single file.

That's very fortunate.  For most people, though, a bank vault will be plenty safe.

derrald

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2017, 09:27:38 AM »
I am a professional photographer and what I have in place is probably way to much for most, but I have seen what data loss can do to a company (I have an IT background). 

Here is my largest concern (aside from the EMP previously mentioned ;):

Ransomware

I have seen this affect companies 4 different times to devastating effect.  It goes in and encrypts all the files.  All data on your network is hosed.  That means if you have 3 drives plugged in to do backups - hosed.  One of the backups has to be offline or in the cloud. 

As a professional, the problems I have with the cloud is cost and bandwidth.  I have some PSDs that are 2 or 3 GB in size alone not to mention all my RAW files.  I currently have about 14 TB of data which would take way to long to upload to the cloud.

For the discussion here is my system and once again this is a fairly extreme example:

2x Dell R710 Servers with RAID 5 (RAID as mentioned before is not backup, but nice for speed and drive redundancy)
1x USB drive per server for on the network backups
2x USB drive per server for offsite backup (kept approximately 5 miles away)
Everything is transferred to backup every night via a Robocopy script
A monitoring program to monitor backup failures
All my final JPGs are kept in Zenfolio

The offline backup gets done weekly.  I swap drives - put one on to backup and replace with the recent copy.

I have never had to go back to Zenfolio for files.  I've never had to go back to the offline files.  I HAVE had to go back to the online backup.

NOTHING is stored on my processing machine, everything is on the servers.  Lastly, this backup system pertains to all my files, not just images.  Invoices, receipts, tax docs, even my MP3 collection.

The monitoring program monitors for drives problems as well as backup failures.  I've had about 5 or 6 drives go bad during this time.  I've never had a drive fail before I was able to replace it because it almost always tells you its going bad before it does through the monitoring programs.

Also, I keep spare hard drives in stock.  When one gets swapped out another gets purchased.

For my friends I always recommend 1x network or USB backup and 1x offline even if its at their work or friends.  At the very least not connected to the network when the backup is not going to protect against ransomware.

I hope this helps someone.  I am pretty passionate about backing up data as years ago I lost files I can never get back!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 09:33:00 AM by derrald »

LDS

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2017, 10:10:33 AM »
Here is my largest concern (aside from the EMP previously mentioned ;):
Ransomware

As others already wrote, a NAS capable of creating "snapshots" is an effective way to protect from ransomware. A "snapshot" - as the name implies, take a "photograph" of the files. Changes made after the snapshot are made to an automatic copy of the file. It's not very different from Apple's TimeMachine and Windows 10 backup, but it can work an a NAS on its own.

Of course, it will use additional disk space (unmodified files only need the space needed to record the snapshot metadata), but one can revert to a previous snapshot ad needed. Unlike backups, snapshots are much faster to create, and can be created more often (some systems create them hourly, or even less). Reverting to an earlier snapshot is also faster than restoring a backup (but all work done after the snapshot was taken is of course lost). Some system allow to transfer or "open" a snapshot on a different system, for single file recovery. It may also useful to protect against accidental deletes or modifications.

Actual ransomware are not capable of encrypting files before a snapshot was taken - of course older snapshots may need to be deleted, and you have to spot a ransomware before it is too late - but that's true for backup as well.

A proper backup/archiving solutions is not just a matter of hardware and disk space, but of software also.

ethanz

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2017, 10:18:38 AM »
For me, backing up photos once a month or so seems to be enough--or after a shoot with 200 or more images.

I'm using modest backup storage--A Western Digital two-disk system in RAID 0 (My Book Duo), 8 terabyte capacity.

Hello, just a note for you, that isn't actually a backup if it is only on the My Book Duo. If a file is only in one place it is not backed up, its only stored. If the My Book Duo was in Raid 1, that would at least be a little better because it would be on two drives.
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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2017, 10:18:38 AM »

derrald

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2017, 10:27:30 AM »
Here is my largest concern (aside from the EMP previously mentioned ;):
Ransomware

As others already wrote, a NAS capable of creating "snapshots" is an effective way to protect from ransomware. A "snapshot" - as the name implies, take a "photograph" of the files. Changes made after the snapshot are made to an automatic copy of the file. It's not very different from Apple's TimeMachine and Windows 10 backup, but it can work an a NAS on its own.

Of course, it will use additional disk space (unmodified files only need the space needed to record the snapshot metadata), but one can revert to a previous snapshot ad needed. Unlike backups, snapshots are much faster to create, and can be created more often (some systems create them hourly, or even less). Reverting to an earlier snapshot is also faster than restoring a backup (but all work done after the snapshot was taken is of course lost). Some system allow to transfer or "open" a snapshot on a different system, for single file recovery. It may also useful to protect against accidental deletes or modifications.

Actual ransomware are not capable of encrypting files before a snapshot was taken - of course older snapshots may need to be deleted, and you have to spot a ransomware before it is too late - but that's true for backup as well.

A proper backup/archiving solutions is not just a matter of hardware and disk space, but of software also.

I've seen ransomware affect snapshots as well.  It depends on how they are taken.  Regardless, something not connected is always better than something that is when ransomware attacks.

LDS

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2017, 12:32:25 PM »
For me, backing up photos once a month or so seems to be enough--or after a shoot with 200 or more images.

I'm using modest backup storage--A Western Digital two-disk system in RAID 0 (My Book Duo), 8 terabyte capacity.

Hello, just a note for you, that isn't actually a backup if it is only on the My Book Duo. If a file is only in one place it is not backed up, its only stored. If the My Book Duo was in Raid 1, that would at least be a little better because it would be on two drives.

Actually, in a RAID0, a file is on all drives, some pieces on one, some pieces on the others. Losing one disk means to lose all files. RAID 0 is for speed and size, but it's the most dangerous one. Good for scratch space and large temporary files, but nothing critical.

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Re: Kind of a philosophical question... How much photo backing up is enough?
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2017, 12:32:25 PM »