November 22, 2017, 09:11:00 PM

Author Topic: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame  (Read 6398 times)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2017, 12:12:29 AM »
A bit baffled by some of the suggestions here! The OP asked for an equivalent of the 60mm Macro (on APSC) for full frame. Therefore the 90 to 105 mm Macros lenses from Canon/Sigma/Tamron are what they need.

Go back and read it carefully, its a bit confusing, but he is asking for a ~60mm Macro lens to fit his FF camera.  He says the 100mm Macro frames too tight

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2017, 12:12:29 AM »

Jack Douglas

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2017, 12:31:00 AM »
On and on we go but where is the OP to clear things up? ;)  That's undoubtedly the correct understanding.

Jack
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aceflibble

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2017, 03:57:12 AM »
The crop factor for the 1DX2 shooting 4k video is just a little more than the crop factor you get with the older Canon 1D APS-H bodies.

To get the equivalent of 100mm you need a lens around the 70mm mark; 60mm will actually frame more like an 85mm equivalent.

There aren't any first-party primes between 60-75mm. The closest you can get in first-party prime lenses would be either a 50mm or 85mm, and use extension tubes for closer focusing. To get that focal length with Canon lenses you have to use a zoom; there are loads which hit that 70mm ballpark.

There are some third-party lenses in that focal range which could be adapted. None are made with the EF mount, as far as I'm aware.

Quite frankly, the 1DX2 for 4k is a bit bizarre. You can get better 4K quality and a wider selection of focal lengths with smaller systems, like Sony's α-series, Fuji's X-T2, and the Panasonic GH5. The Sonys and the GH5 include in-camera stabilisation so you can more easily get smooth video no matter what lens you use; all three have a wide range of lenses available and, due to being smaller mounts (and not a large mount with a digital crop, like the 1DX2) you can adapt nearly anything to work with them. More importantly, they're simply far better for video; the image quality is better and the file sizes are more controlled.

If you're shooting a lot of action stills in harsh environments, and then doing occasional 4k video on the side, then sticking with the 1DX2 makes sense; I'd advise the 24-70 f/4 IS, with its semi-macro mode, as the most sensible option for getting video with the framing you're asking for. Second to that I'd say pair your existing 100mm with a 50mm (with extension tubes for close focusing; the 50mm macro isn't that great to be worth bothering with) for a basic long + normal duo. The 50mm will result in a field of view roughly the same as 70mm in 35mm framing terms, which is long enough to give a flat perspective but is wide enough to frame up to a full-length person quite comfortably, in most spaces. Again, the zoom would really be better.

If you're not shooting winter sports, standing in the middle of a desert dust storm, chasing wildlife halfway up a mountain, or if video is your primary medium, then, quite frankly, just scrap the 1DX2. For the cost of filing out a range of lenses to do video with a 1DX2 with the framing you want, you could get a better-optimised video system.

 
Lastly, there is one secret weapon which might suit you. The old Canon FD range includes a handful of 55mm f/1.2 variations. FD lenses can't be mounted to EF without losing infinity focus and increasing their macro focus, but since you're asking for macro anyway, that might be fine for you. Since you're shooting video, the lack of autofocus shouldn't be a problem and, as it has its own aperture ring, you can have it de-clicked for video. Add a small extension tube to get true macro. All of the FD 55mm f/1.2s are very soft wide open, of course, but stop them down to f/2.8 and they're good across the field, and that goes doubly so for cropped-in video. If you won't be using it for longer distances (no infinity focus) and you really want the closest thing possible to 60mm (to get a bit-over-80mm equivalent view), those FD 55mms are the nearest thing you can get.
But, again, I must stress that doing something like adapting an old FD lens to a 1DX2 to shoot 4k video, when systems like the GH5 and X-T2 already exist out there doing this natively, is really insanely pointless.

BurningPlatform

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2017, 07:04:34 AM »
One thing worth noting when seeking equivalence in macro photography is also magnification with respect to crop factor. If you are really shooting at 1:1 with APS-C, you need actually 1.6:1 on full frame to get the same framing; and for the 1.3 4k crop factor in idX2 you'd need 1.2:1 magnification to get the same frame. Also, doing the videography under water, you'd want to keep the distance to subject short not to lose colour, which makes seeking equivalence even more challenging, as longer focal lengths tend to increase the working distance.

These are more or less theoretical comments on my part, though, as I have not done underwater macro work.

ahsanford

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2017, 10:40:42 AM »
These are more or less theoretical comments on my part, though, as I have not done underwater macro work.

+1.  That continues to likely be the biggest pain point and not the FL.  I'm not an underwater photog at all, but one would think not having things like FTM manual focusing and internal focusing / does not change length would be dealbreakers, and that would further winnow an already short list of lenses.

- A

Jack Douglas

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2017, 01:08:45 PM »
@ aceflibble I understand all your points and they are valid and obviously you're speaking from experience.  However, you seem to be suggesting that the actual 4K video of the 1DX2 is somehow inferior and that surprises me and doesn't seem to align with my experience and what I've read.  However, I'm far from being an expert.

Jack
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stevelee

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2017, 09:13:47 PM »
I'm certainly not the expert to be talking but it seems the issue is much more prevalent once you hit 4K recording because of data rates that would be gigantic for full frame without serious compression of some sort or restricting the frame size.

Jack

I think I understand now, and your post and another were helpful toward that.

I think at the current state of things, if I really needed to shoot actual 4K video, I wouldn’t be using a DSLR.

Shooting just for funsies, though, if I had a DSLR that shot 4K, I would compare the quality of the 4K and 1080p under the shooting conditions and use whichever better suited my purposes at the time.

It is far from obvious to me that 4K shot with a portion of a sensor would be superior to 1080p shot with the full width of the sensor, or if so, at least enough to bother with it very often.

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2017, 09:13:47 PM »

Jack Douglas

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2017, 09:26:24 PM »
I'm certainly not the expert to be talking but it seems the issue is much more prevalent once you hit 4K recording because of data rates that would be gigantic for full frame without serious compression of some sort or restricting the frame size.

Jack

I think I understand now, and your post and another were helpful toward that.

I think at the current state of things, if I really needed to shoot actual 4K video, I wouldn’t be using a DSLR.

Shooting just for funsies, though, if I had a DSLR that shot 4K, I would compare the quality of the 4K and 1080p under the shooting conditions and use whichever better suited my purposes at the time.

It is far from obvious to me that 4K shot with a portion of a sensor would be superior to 1080p shot with the full width of the sensor, or if so, at least enough to bother with it very often.

It's easy to overlook the value to a nature nut of the ability to shoot a few seconds of high quality video in 4k with its 60 fps and being able to extract pretty decent stills as well as having really great slow motion.  Watch a nature production and ask yourself how long the individual clips are.  A few seconds of Mjpg is large but manageable.  This can be exploited, for example, when acquiring bird landing shots if you know their favorite perches.  Although I haven't done too much seriously with this yet it's whetted my appetite.  Making the 1DX2 video capability sound like it's borderline useless is a mistake.  And remember, crop cameras are often praised for their "reach".  Ever heard folk asking for another 1D4? ;)

Jack
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stevelee

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2017, 10:05:17 PM »
It's easy to overlook the value to a nature nut of the ability to shoot a few seconds of high quality video in 4k with its 60 fps and being able to extract pretty decent stills as well as having really great slow motion.  Watch a nature production and ask yourself how long the individual clips are.  A few seconds of Mjpg is large but manageable.  This can be exploited, for example, when acquiring bird landing shots if you know their favorite perches.  Although I haven't done too much seriously with this yet it's whetted my appetite.  Making the 1DX2 video capability sound like it's borderline useless is a mistake.  And remember, crop cameras are often praised for their "reach".  Ever heard folk asking for another 1D4? ;)

Jack

I certainly didn’t mean to imply anything about 4K implementation on the 1DX2 as crap. I’ve never shot anything with that camera and have no hope of ever owning one (or really, any need for one). I was speaking in general, and meant an empirical approach choosing between my available options, as I do now.

I think your example is one where I would choose 4K 60p, too.  I don’t often photograph birds. I do enjoy watching them. My deck and the floor level of my house are 20 or so feet above ground level at the back, and there are woods that start just beyond the deck. The family room has three large windows looking out the back. Birds hang out on my deck rail and in the woods. The woman next door has a variety of bird feeders, but they are so far below my deck level that I can’t see them from the house. I take my few bird pictures through the widows, since going out on the deck makes them fly away. When it snows, there seem to be a lot of cardinals, and I take some shots of them.

It occurs to me that with wifi and the Canon app, I ought to be able to set up a tripod on the deck and control the 6D2 or the G7X II from the iPad indoors, once I’ve framed and focused on one of the feeders. That might be worth a try to see whether I can make it work.

Jopa

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2017, 11:11:10 PM »
A bit baffled by some of the suggestions here! The OP asked for an equivalent of the 60mm Macro (on APSC) for full frame. Therefore the 90 to 105 mm Macros lenses from Canon/Sigma/Tamron are what they need.

Go back and read it carefully, its a bit confusing, but he is asking for a ~60mm Macro lens to fit his FF camera.  He says the 100mm Macro frames too tight

English is not my native language, but in my understanding "too tight" means the distance between the lens and whatever he's shooting is too short. In this case I'm not sure if decreasing the focal length will actually help. A 180mm macro would be the best option IMHO. If "too tight" means a narrow viewing angle, then yes... The widest macro as far as I remember is made by Laowa: https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-15mm-f/

Jack Douglas

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2017, 11:17:26 PM »
@ stevelee  I wasn't aiming the comments at you specifically.  Just a general observation that the 1DX2 video has been mercilessly attacked by many pros for various reasons, many of them valid.  I was just presenting an opposing view from my perspective of short nature clips and slo mo.  Off topic of course. ;)

You should do a set up off your deck.  You might become addicted.

Jack
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stevelee

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2017, 08:41:53 PM »
You should do a set up off your deck.  You might become addicted.

Jack

I was out on the deck about 15 minutes after sunset this evening. I had been out front shooting the sunset and neighbor's Halloween decorations. I decided to wander on to the deck out back to see what I could see. I had the 24-105 STM on my 6D2, so clearly didn't have bird photos in mind. Looking down on one of the bird feeders next door, I thought I saw some birds, but it was too dark for me to be sure. No time to run inside and put on my less-than-stellar 75-300 (which so far has not been on this camera). So I went ahead and took some pictures. 105mm f/5.6 1/40 sec. ISO 40,000, auto exposure and focus. Of course the results were noisy, but much better than my eyes could do. I did minimal tweaking in Camera RAW, cropped somewhat, and the picture below is about 58% reduction, so noise smoothed out a bit:



I'm quite pleased with both camera and lens. I couldn't have focused by eye. While this is not a great photo, I'm glad I took it. I would not have bothered with any of my other equipment.

Still off topic, I realize.

Jack Douglas

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2017, 10:38:12 PM »
OK, so now you get the picture in daylight and with the less than perfect 300 since it looks like a very pretty bird! ;)

Jack
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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2017, 10:38:12 PM »

stevelee

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2017, 12:55:54 AM »
OK, so now you get the picture in daylight and with the less than perfect 300 since it looks like a very pretty bird! ;)

Jack

That worked because the cardinals couldn't see me, either. I can probably figure out the wifi setup to do the remote shooting easier than I can guess what time the cardinals come to the feeder.

stevelee

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 11:33:32 PM »
I should have added, in case that it is not suggested by my context, that the picture was shot handheld. That is part of what impressed me. The stabilization in the lens allowed me to shoot handheld in the near-dark.

With planning and a tripod I could have used a little longer shutter speed and a lower ISO to cut down on noise. The birds were still enough to allow a bit more time, probably. But it is not the sort of shot I would have planned, but rather just happened upon.

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Re: 60mm Macro lens equivalent for Full Frame
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 11:33:32 PM »