February 22, 2018, 10:19:25 AM

Author Topic: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?  (Read 2878 times)

AlanF

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 04:46:37 PM »
aceflibble, I report what I see and measure. You are stitching 300 files to give 400mp+, which amounts to 1.3 mpx per file whereas I am dealing with a single 50mpx file at the end of a 400mm lens, and the effect of shake increases faster than the focal length of a lens, maybe by the focal length squared so the situations are not necessarily comparable. What is the pixel size you are dealing with and what focal length?

I have pretty steady hands and a good telephoto technique and I don't get many pixel sharp shots at 1/400s with 400mm on a 5DSR though a fair proportion seem OK on a cursory look at sharpness or even measuring quality of focus using FoCal.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2018, 04:46:37 PM »

Ryan_

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2018, 12:49:41 PM »
If you're shooting a series of images in a burst with continuous AF then it's completely normal for frame to dip in and out slightly. Cameras' AF systems are not perfect and neither the lens nor body is machined to control that focus that finely that quickly. It's got nothing to do with IS; this is all down to the AF. You may think it's focused on the same point, but it only has to be off by a tiny fraction for the sharpness to dip. The only way each frame in a series will be equally sharp is if you use a wider lens and smaller aperture to get a deeper depth of field so there's inherently less variation, and then use Live View for focusing. (Which then comes with its own drawbacks.)
Using your 70-200 2.8 as an example, if you use it at 200mm f/2.8 and focus on something 20' away on a 5D4 body, that gives you a depth of reasonably sharp focus of about 2.4" and absolute sharp focus (peak resolution, 1:1) of about 0.8". Meaning you only have to move 0.1" further forward or back, or have the camera focus 0.1" further forward or back, for there to be a difference in sharpness at 1:1. That kind of difference can happen at nearly any shutter speed—no human has the ability to intentionally hold a camera precisely 0.1" further than they previously were—and can happen with any camera's AF, regardless of model and settings. Even if you're not shooting in continuous and you have the camera repeat one-shot focusing each time on what appears to be the same point, it's easily going to vary each shot by that kind of small increment.

In other words, what you're describing sounds totally normal. I'd only worry if you were getting the same kind of results when shooting more zoomed out and at small apertures. Even then, my first thought would be a more basic fault with the focusing of the body and lens, rather than anything relating to the shutter speed or IS.
So you're saying its normal for some photos to be "in focus" but not sharp in a burst? Because thats whats happening to me. Its not that one frame is completely dipping out of focus with the point of focus still being sharp. Whats happening is the point of focus is staying pretty much the same (close enough usually) but some of the images have a weird softness while some others are quite sharp.

That IS potion won't stop the motion in the ocean.
100%. But I thought keeping it on would help mitigate some of the motion from my own self, even with a fast shutter speed.

Didn't get a chance to try this without IS on the other day, but hopefully in the next few days I should be able to.
My AF Settings are set on Case 3 except tracking sensitivity is dialed all the way up. AI Servo 1st and 2nd image priority is set for priority to be on an in focus image instead of a quicker shutter release. I use a single AF point.

Edit: It is still very possible that water droplets on the lens port and simply too much movement from me/the ocean kicking me around are to blame. Its just hard to measure those things. And usually if its water on the port, its a lot more obvious (very soft image or camera/lens won't be able to lock focus and therefor not fire).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 12:52:44 PM by Ryan_ »

johnf3f

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2018, 07:21:44 PM »
Just a thought (depends how close you are) but I tend to prefer Center Point AF with the 4 expansion points enabled for fast/erratically moving subjects. This gives me a fair bit of room for error when chasing birds in flight - might be worth a try?
Canon 1DX, 7D2, 16-35 F4 L IS, 24-70 F2.8 V2, 100 F2.8 Macro, 100-400 L IS Mk2, 300 F2.8 L IS, 800 F5.6 L IS, Holga Pinhole lens.

monkey44

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2018, 08:01:38 PM »
Just a thought (depends how close you are) but I tend to prefer Center Point AF with the 4 expansion points enabled for fast/erratically moving subjects. This gives me a fair bit of room for error when chasing birds in flight - might be worth a try?

I agree with Johnf3f here (CP w.4 XP) ... in general tho, IS mitigates camera movement, not body movement.  In that case, some photographer technique might help.  Consider the camera movement when you're tracking and athlete or a bird in flight.  You keep the camera aimed at the target, which means move your camera with the float of the boat, predictive sorta.  You predict where the target will be as stable, but allow for the movement of the boat and adjust ahead of time where the target will be when you hit the button ...

I know, sounds a bit odd, but movement of photographer mimics movement of target in motion - in reverse.  Probably means lots of practice.

BTW:  I almost never shut off IS unless on tripod and for long exposure scenic ... IS acts as if it's off when it detects stability, usually.  Of course, that also depends on the IS model ... 

Talys

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2018, 01:11:29 AM »
BTW:  I almost never shut off IS unless on tripod and for long exposure scenic ... IS acts as if it's off when it detects stability, usually.  Of course, that also depends on the IS model ...

With a bigger lens, IS isn't even terrible on a tripod.  In a lot of cases, the tripod is not perfectly steady, for example, if you haven't given it time to settle, or if it's windy.

If I'm using 1/1000 or faster, even if it's on a tripod, it's hard to see any negative effect of the IS, whereas it can save some shots (or frames) that may otherwise have been blurry.  The other advantage of leaving on IS is that you don't forget to turn it back on, if you're going back and forth between tripod and not.

AlanF

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 03:57:58 AM »
BTW:  I almost never shut off IS unless on tripod and for long exposure scenic ... IS acts as if it's off when it detects stability, usually.  Of course, that also depends on the IS model ...

With a bigger lens, IS isn't even terrible on a tripod.  In a lot of cases, the tripod is not perfectly steady, for example, if you haven't given it time to settle, or if it's windy.

If I'm using 1/1000 or faster, even if it's on a tripod, it's hard to see any negative effect of the IS, whereas it can save some shots (or frames) that may otherwise have been blurry.  The other advantage of leaving on IS is that you don't forget to turn it back on, if you're going back and forth between tripod and not.

Canon's instruction for lenses that have tripod detection is to leave the IS on while using a tripod because it might minimise mirror/shutter shake. Arash Hazeghi always leaves on IS for BIF since it helps maintain the bird in the centre of the viewfinder and doesn't have negative IQ effects etc. I leave IS on as well, for what it's worth.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

Talys

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 12:30:38 PM »
BTW:  I almost never shut off IS unless on tripod and for long exposure scenic ... IS acts as if it's off when it detects stability, usually.  Of course, that also depends on the IS model ...

With a bigger lens, IS isn't even terrible on a tripod.  In a lot of cases, the tripod is not perfectly steady, for example, if you haven't given it time to settle, or if it's windy.

If I'm using 1/1000 or faster, even if it's on a tripod, it's hard to see any negative effect of the IS, whereas it can save some shots (or frames) that may otherwise have been blurry.  The other advantage of leaving on IS is that you don't forget to turn it back on, if you're going back and forth between tripod and not.

Canon's instruction for lenses that have tripod detection is to leave the IS on while using a tripod because it might minimise mirror/shutter shake. Arash Hazeghi always leaves on IS for BIF since it helps maintain the bird in the centre of the viewfinder and doesn't have negative IQ effects etc. I leave IS on as well, for what it's worth.

Thanks, Alan: I did not know that (re Canon's instruction). 

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2018, 12:30:38 PM »

Talys

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 12:31:05 PM »
BTW:  I almost never shut off IS unless on tripod and for long exposure scenic ... IS acts as if it's off when it detects stability, usually.  Of course, that also depends on the IS model ...

With a bigger lens, IS isn't even terrible on a tripod.  In a lot of cases, the tripod is not perfectly steady, for example, if you haven't given it time to settle, or if it's windy.

If I'm using 1/1000 or faster, even if it's on a tripod, it's hard to see any negative effect of the IS, whereas it can save some shots (or frames) that may otherwise have been blurry.  The other advantage of leaving on IS is that you don't forget to turn it back on, if you're going back and forth between tripod and not.

Canon's instruction for lenses that have tripod detection is to leave the IS on while using a tripod because it might minimise mirror/shutter shake. Arash Hazeghi always leaves on IS for BIF since it helps maintain the bird in the centre of the viewfinder and doesn't have negative IQ effects etc. I leave IS on as well, for what it's worth.

Thanks, Alan.  I did not know that (about Canon's recommendation)

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Re: Image Stabilization in extreme movement?
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 12:31:05 PM »