April 24, 2018, 11:19:36 AM

Author Topic: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless  (Read 18900 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #135 on: March 01, 2018, 04:59:12 PM »
I think that dam is very close to breaking now, and we are going to see a seismic shift in the market soon.

I recall people saying that 5 years ago.

Tugela thought that all Canon cameras with Digic 7 would shoot 4K, until they didn't.  You need to take his statements with a grain of salt.   Preferably more than a grain. 

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #135 on: March 01, 2018, 04:59:12 PM »

Talys

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #136 on: March 01, 2018, 05:06:08 PM »
But the a7III is $2000 and it appears to be a VERY impressive camera. We can expect that technology to trickle down into 6000 line pretty soon as well, and that will be priced even lower. Stuff like the M50 is going to be competing against a crop sensor version of the a7III, and there is no question which camera will win that battle. With current specs the M series are going to be king of the bargain bin, but not much else.

The a7III is not a competitor to any Canon mirrorless, much less the M50 -- it's nearly 3 times the price and it's full frame.  It's a competitor to the 6D2 on one hand, and more so, to the A7R3 on the other.

In reality, there are few people who want to spend $2,000 on a camera body.  The market for $500-$1,000 camera bodies is much larger.  And by the way, a $740 camera body is not a "bargain bin camera" in any market.

The competitors to the M50/M5/M6 would be the a6300 and a5100.  And neither are those "bargain bin" ILCs.  With even a couple of kit lenses, we're talking cameras that surpass $1,000, which isn't exactly pocket change for most hobbyists.

Really, all of them are amazing tools that can produce award-winning photography and a reflection of a mature field of optics and sensor technology.  To deride any of them or to view them with contempt is more a reflection of yourself than anything else.


eninja

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #137 on: March 01, 2018, 06:50:02 PM »
Seems that canon is acting very late if they're having to respond to a market that is already beginning to shift.   And if their dslr lineup is to be cannibalized it would seem better that it would be so by a Canon product than that of a competitor.   It's as if it took until recently to even recognize that mirrorless was going to be a thing. 
  To give them credit, they seem to have caught on, and I expect to seem a great FullFrame mirrorless sometime :)

I think Canon intentionally playing dumb. They knew this is coming the whole time.

The problem Canon has is that the underlying electronics in the camera is an area where they can't compete against the likes of Sony and Panasonic. That is why they are sticking so avidly to DSLRs, since those are less reliant on advances in electronics than MILCs. It is in Canon's interests to market that DSLRs are inherently superior, but they will only be able to do that for so long before the dam breaks and the market shifts.

I think that dam is very close to breaking now, and we are going to see a seismic shift in the market soon.

Didn't you know that canon designs they own processor? and image sensor? Canon's products are pure image related, their money are all in making imaging devices. What is hard to do electronics are in MILC that are not found in DSLR? Isn't it DSLR >> MILC - DSLR electronics is Superior to MILC.
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transpo1

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #138 on: March 01, 2018, 11:48:55 PM »
"The Japanese market for interchangeable lens cameras recorded a 10.1% drop in sales for SLRs last year while mirrorless varieties soared 29.2%"

That's the only way you can get Canon to move.... they smelled the money and want their share of it... totally understandable.

Yup. They finally realized what we 4Kers have been saying all along- cannibalize yourself or others will do it for you.

sure that's why canon's been #2 for two years in a row in japan and well ahead of panasonic who's the darling of 4k and somewhere 4th or worse.

Hey, I’m not saying they moved only because of 4K but it’s certainly one of the factors if they’re including it in the M50.

In fact, if you read the post, it’s essentially about launching a “strategic” new camera at the risk of cannibalizing themselves. So pretty much spot on.

It’s a strategic move to play defense to MILC competitors (whom they must fear) and an offensive move to snap up money.

Yes, with 4K as a big factor.

Mikehit

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #139 on: March 02, 2018, 03:54:52 AM »

Hey, I’m not saying they moved only because of 4K but it’s certainly one of the factors if they’re including it in the M50.

In fact, if you read the post, it’s essentially about launching a “strategic” new camera at the risk of cannibalizing themselves. So pretty much spot on.

It’s a strategic move to play defense to MILC competitors (whom they must fear) and an offensive move to snap up money.

Yes, with 4K as a big factor.

Maybe I missed it, but I am not sure what they mean by 'strategic'. This can mean one of two things:
-  a spoiler to make anyone thinking about moving to Sony think twice about it
-  a marker round which future mirrorless will be developed

Canon may in the short term concentrate on DSLR for their high end models (7D/5D/1Dx) and mirrorless a level  below that.

transpo1

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #140 on: March 02, 2018, 05:36:36 AM »

Hey, I’m not saying they moved only because of 4K but it’s certainly one of the factors if they’re including it in the M50.

In fact, if you read the post, it’s essentially about launching a “strategic” new camera at the risk of cannibalizing themselves. So pretty much spot on.

It’s a strategic move to play defense to MILC competitors (whom they must fear) and an offensive move to snap up money.

Yes, with 4K as a big factor.

Maybe I missed it, but I am not sure what they mean by 'strategic'. This can mean one of two things:
-  a spoiler to make anyone thinking about moving to Sony think twice about it
-  a marker round which future mirrorless will be developed

Canon may in the short term concentrate on DSLR for their high end models (7D/5D/1Dx) and mirrorless a level  below that.

Yup. If you read between the lines, they are saying, “we are releasing a strategic new camera at the risk of cannibalizing ourselves so that others do not cannibalize us instead.”

Even though they are #2 (by some accounts) in MILC- and some people make lots of noise about that- it’s clear this is what’s happening- they are scared of not being #2 and want to cash in on the mirrorless wave.

BillB

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #141 on: March 02, 2018, 07:33:27 AM »

Hey, I’m not saying they moved only because of 4K but it’s certainly one of the factors if they’re including it in the M50.

In fact, if you read the post, it’s essentially about launching a “strategic” new camera at the risk of cannibalizing themselves. So pretty much spot on.

It’s a strategic move to play defense to MILC competitors (whom they must fear) and an offensive move to snap up money.

Yes, with 4K as a big factor.

Maybe I missed it, but I am not sure what they mean by 'strategic'. This can mean one of two things:
-  a spoiler to make anyone thinking about moving to Sony think twice about it
-  a marker round which future mirrorless will be developed

Canon may in the short term concentrate on DSLR for their high end models (7D/5D/1Dx) and mirrorless a level  below that.

Yup. If you read between the lines, they are saying, “we are releasing a strategic new camera at the risk of cannibalizing ourselves so that others do not cannibalize us instead.”

Even though they are #2 (by some accounts) in MILC- and some people make lots of noise about that- it’s clear this is what’s happening- they are scared of not being #2 and want to cash in on the mirrorless wave.

Well, they released the M50 because they thought it was a good idea.  I don't know that means "they" are scared of anything.  Being scared and wanting to cash in are two different things.

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #141 on: March 02, 2018, 07:33:27 AM »

Mikehit

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #142 on: March 02, 2018, 08:40:40 AM »


Yup. If you read between the lines, they are saying, “we are releasing a strategic new camera at the risk of cannibalizing ourselves so that others do not cannibalize us instead.”

Even though they are #2 (by some accounts) in MILC- and some people make lots of noise about that- it’s clear this is what’s happening- they are scared of not being #2 and want to cash in on the mirrorless wave.

You know what they say about making assumptions...

Talys

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #143 on: March 02, 2018, 11:28:07 AM »
Even though they are #2 (by some accounts) in MILC- and some people make lots of noise about that- it’s clear this is what’s happening- they are scared of not being #2 and want to cash in on the mirrorless wave.

Since they were #3 just a couple of years and #4 or lower not long before that... perhaps they want to cash in on the mirrorless wave to be #1.

transpo1

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #144 on: March 02, 2018, 12:27:18 PM »

Hey, I’m not saying they moved only because of 4K but it’s certainly one of the factors if they’re including it in the M50.

In fact, if you read the post, it’s essentially about launching a “strategic” new camera at the risk of cannibalizing themselves. So pretty much spot on.

It’s a strategic move to play defense to MILC competitors (whom they must fear) and an offensive move to snap up money.

Yes, with 4K as a big factor.

Maybe I missed it, but I am not sure what they mean by 'strategic'. This can mean one of two things:
-  a spoiler to make anyone thinking about moving to Sony think twice about it
-  a marker round which future mirrorless will be developed

Canon may in the short term concentrate on DSLR for their high end models (7D/5D/1Dx) and mirrorless a level  below that.

Yup. If you read between the lines, they are saying, “we are releasing a strategic new camera at the risk of cannibalizing ourselves so that others do not cannibalize us instead.”

Even though they are #2 (by some accounts) in MILC- and some people make lots of noise about that- it’s clear this is what’s happening- they are scared of not being #2 and want to cash in on the mirrorless wave.

Well, they released the M50 because they thought it was a good idea.  I don't know that means "they" are scared of anything.  Being scared and wanting to cash in are two different things.

I think the statement is pretty clear. We all know Canon- they have historically NOT cannibalized their DSLRs and now they’re willing to risk it. Why? Because someone else might do it. If there’s money on the table, they want to grab it, and that means it’s up for grabs which means they realize the possibility is there for someone else to grab it- hence, fear of not getting the money ;)

Talys

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #145 on: March 02, 2018, 12:34:18 PM »
I think the statement is pretty clear. We all know Canon- they have historically NOT cannibalized their DSLRs and now they’re willing to risk it. Why? Because someone else might do it. If there’s money on the table, they want to grab it, and that means it’s up for grabs which means they realize the possibility is there for someone else to grab it- hence, fear of not getting the money ;)

What DSLR does the M50 cannibalize sales of?

Which APSC video-centric DSLRs are there?  Which 4k FF DSLRs would someone not buy, and purchase the M50 instead?

transpo1

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #146 on: March 02, 2018, 12:39:44 PM »
I think the statement is pretty clear. We all know Canon- they have historically NOT cannibalized their DSLRs and now they’re willing to risk it. Why? Because someone else might do it. If there’s money on the table, they want to grab it, and that means it’s up for grabs which means they realize the possibility is there for someone else to grab it- hence, fear of not getting the money ;)

What DSLR does the M50 cannibalize sales of?

Which APSC video-centric DSLRs are there?  Which 4k FF DSLRs would someone not buy, and purchase the M50 instead?

Again, read the statement. They used the term cannibalization.

BillB

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #147 on: March 02, 2018, 12:48:57 PM »

Hey, I’m not saying they moved only because of 4K but it’s certainly one of the factors if they’re including it in the M50.

In fact, if you read the post, it’s essentially about launching a “strategic” new camera at the risk of cannibalizing themselves. So pretty much spot on.

It’s a strategic move to play defense to MILC competitors (whom they must fear) and an offensive move to snap up money.

Yes, with 4K as a big factor.

Maybe I missed it, but I am not sure what they mean by 'strategic'. This can mean one of two things:
-  a spoiler to make anyone thinking about moving to Sony think twice about it
-  a marker round which future mirrorless will be developed

Canon may in the short term concentrate on DSLR for their high end models (7D/5D/1Dx) and mirrorless a level  below that.

Yup. If you read between the lines, they are saying, “we are releasing a strategic new camera at the risk of cannibalizing ourselves so that others do not cannibalize us instead.”

Even though they are #2 (by some accounts) in MILC- and some people make lots of noise about that- it’s clear this is what’s happening- they are scared of not being #2 and want to cash in on the mirrorless wave.

Well, they released the M50 because they thought it was a good idea.  I don't know that means "they" are scared of anything.  Being scared and wanting to cash in are two different things.

I think the statement is pretty clear. We all know Canon- they have historically NOT cannibalized their DSLRs and now they’re willing to risk it. Why? Because someone else might do it. If there’s money on the table, they want to grab it, and that means it’s up for grabs which means they realize the possibility is there for someone else to grab it- hence, fear of not getting the money ;)

A key piece of the M50 technology seems to be the Digic 8, and the design of the Digic 8 would have begun several years ago.  So, the M50 is the result a technology development strategy that  has been underway for a while.  It doesn't seem to me that Canon is running scared. It is just putting out new products, like it always has. 

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #147 on: March 02, 2018, 12:48:57 PM »

Mikehit

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #148 on: March 02, 2018, 12:57:23 PM »


A key piece of the M50 technology seems to be the Digic 8, and the design of the Digic 8 would have begun several years ago.  So, the M50 is the result a technology development strategy that  has been underway for a while.  It doesn't seem to me that Canon is running scared. It is just putting out new products, like it always has.

But that does not fit the meme that Canon does not innovate any more and only responds. It is therefore incorrect.

Talys

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #149 on: March 02, 2018, 01:04:50 PM »
I think the statement is pretty clear. We all know Canon- they have historically NOT cannibalized their DSLRs and now they’re willing to risk it. Why? Because someone else might do it. If there’s money on the table, they want to grab it, and that means it’s up for grabs which means they realize the possibility is there for someone else to grab it- hence, fear of not getting the money ;)

What DSLR does the M50 cannibalize sales of?

Which APSC video-centric DSLRs are there?  Which 4k FF DSLRs would someone not buy, and purchase the M50 instead?

Again, read the statement. They used the term cannibalization.

Except "they" isn't Canon, and it isnt' a statement.  It's the Nikkei Asian Review, and the opinion of a writer there.  I'm pretty sure that Canon would express their viewpoint differently :)

I would be shocked if Canon actually thought, "we'd rather sell $500 entry level DSLR kits instead of $900 entry level mirrorless kits".

« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 01:07:14 PM by Talys »

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #149 on: March 02, 2018, 01:04:50 PM »