June 20, 2018, 01:21:33 PM

Author Topic: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?  (Read 5505 times)

slclick

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2018, 05:41:39 PM »

Is there some technical reason this can't be done practically? If Canon can make a 15-85 f/3.5 - 5.6, why not a 15-45 f/2.8? Or a 15-65 f/4 (24-105 FF equivalent)?

What is the advantage?
Price will be about the same. Size will not be much different.

How about a 17-55 F2.8?

That was the single bone Canon threw to the 1.6 dog.
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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2018, 05:41:39 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2018, 05:52:38 PM »

Is there some technical reason this can't be done practically? If Canon can make a 15-85 f/3.5 - 5.6, why not a 15-45 f/2.8? Or a 15-65 f/4 (24-105 FF equivalent)?

What is the advantage?
Price will be about the same. Size will not be much different.

How about a 17-55 F2.8?

That was the single bone Canon threw to the 1.6 dog.

It is not a L lens, but it feels like one...

Once you start to go longer, there really isn’t a lot of weight savings between crop and FF lenses, and I suspect that’s why there is no offering of longer L glass for the crop line... I know a lot of crop shooters who have the FF 70-200 in some variation so that lens takes the top end of the crop trilogy..... but there is nothing of L quality at the wide end. It would have been nice to see something from Canon like a 10-17mm F2.8 lens, that is a hole in the lens lineup that Canon has left unfilled for a long time
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slclick

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2018, 05:55:49 PM »
I liked my 10-22 when I shot crop, sure it needed a bit of correction in post but it was a very good value. Didn't need it to be faster, it was fantastic stopped down.
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Don Haines

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2018, 06:07:24 PM »
I liked my 10-22 when I shot crop, sure it needed a bit of correction in post but it was a very good value. Didn't need it to be faster, it was fantastic stopped down.

I have one of those.... it is a nice lens, a great lens for the price. It eventually got replaced in the bag by a Tokina that was sharper and faster, but nowhere near as compact.

One of the big advantages of crop is smaller size, and fast lenses kind of ruin that advantage. I think that’s one of the reasons why there are a lot of F5.6 crop lenses, and also the reason why there are a lot of F6.3 M lenses....
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brad-man

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2018, 06:27:04 PM »
The times they are a changing. EF-M 22, check. EF-M 32ish, soon. EF-M 50-something, we'll see...

stevelee

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2018, 09:41:15 PM »
I liked my 10-22 when I shot crop, sure it needed a bit of correction in post but it was a very good value. Didn't need it to be faster, it was fantastic stopped down.

That has been my experience with that lens. I haven't needed that range much lately, though. Since I don't have anything wider that the 24mm on my kit zoom for my 6D2, if I do I will still get out the T3i and the 10-22. The realtor for whom I shot houses on occasion has retired, and I've not cultivated any more business. Sometimes, even with him, the staging company also did the interior photos. I may some day get the 16-35 for my FF, but would do it sooner if I had a project that would help pay for it. Right now, it makes more sense for me to get a better telephoto than the 75-300mm that I got along with the kit lens with my first Rebel.

Ah-Keong

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2018, 02:21:07 AM »
Judging from the Sigma 18-35mm f/1,8 and the 50-100mm f/1,8.

It is difficult in a non-linear fashion to develop glass for smaller sensor bodies.
Any further attempts would lead to a point of diminishing returns (i.e the size and weight of the 50-100mm f/1,8 is about the same as a 70-200mm with IS.)

what would happen if the focal length is stretched to say 50-135mm f/1,8 and with OS?

Hope Sigma would introduce a say 10-18mm f/1,8 DC HSM glass for crop users....  :P
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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2018, 02:21:07 AM »

KevinP

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2018, 02:14:49 PM »
The APS-C upgrade path has been maddening me this year too.  It is that cost and size problem.

I've looked at the 11-20 f2.8 Tokina, 24-70 f4 macro, and 100-400 Sigma as another affordable-ish crop body trio.  A Tamron 24-70 f2.8 (non G2) could be another good option to stay below $800 per zoom and get the faster aperture for the portrait range. 

For camera size, I like SL2 to 77D range.  The size of current FF Canon is an instant veto for me, and even more for my wife.  Big lenses don't change that the big cameras feel oversize to my hands.  The A7III is an instant crush this week (give me eye AF and IBIS for my shaky hands).  I'm just not ready for a full frame kit approaching 2x the cost.  Eye or pupil AF in the new M50 is encouraging.  90D could be a really cool camera.  For now, just waiting until I see a deal on a Canon crop body I can't resist. 


mistaspeedy

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2018, 05:01:37 PM »
I am also at a point where I am considering upgrading my whole setup. I will make changes during the coming months, but I also need to decide between crop and full frame.
Currently I have a 1.3 crop camera which is the worst solution... going to full frame for quality and proper wide angles, or going to crop where I have some nice cheaper glass, is the way to go.

So far, the most likely upgrades will be:

1D mark II > replace with used Canon 6D
Tamron 28-75 F2.8 > get this lens serviced for its decentered element and see how it works with the 6D.
Keep 40mm F2.8 STM
Keep 50mm F1.4 USM

Then see what other glass I can add.
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Talys

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2018, 05:18:48 PM »
The APS-C upgrade path has been maddening me this year too.  It is that cost and size problem.

I've looked at the 11-20 f2.8 Tokina, 24-70 f4 macro, and 100-400 Sigma as another affordable-ish crop body trio.  A Tamron 24-70 f2.8 (non G2) could be another good option to stay below $800 per zoom and get the faster aperture for the portrait range. 

For camera size, I like SL2 to 77D range.  The size of current FF Canon is an instant veto for me, and even more for my wife.  Big lenses don't change that the big cameras feel oversize to my hands.  The A7III is an instant crush this week (give me eye AF and IBIS for my shaky hands).  I'm just not ready for a full frame kit approaching 2x the cost.  Eye or pupil AF in the new M50 is encouraging.  90D could be a really cool camera.  For now, just waiting until I see a deal on a Canon crop body I can't resist. 



I would go 80D over 77D.

The Canon EF70-300 f4-5.6 USM (nano) is a pretty good bet.  The image quality is good, the autofocus is fast and reasonably consistent considering the price, and it goes on sale for ridiculously cheap prices at times.  It suffers from slightly soft corners, which you'll happily never see on a crop :)

The alternative is the EFS55-250 STM, which is a great lens for the price, and not very big.

If it were me, the only other lens I'd need on a budget would be the Canon EFS18-135 USM (nano).  That's an exceptional lens for the price, I think, with probably the fastest, quietest AF I've seen of any lens, ever. 

Sure, it's not amazing under 24, and isn't really that great over 100, but that leaves a pretty good range where it is perfectly sharp all around, especially stopped down to f/5.6.  And even at the ends of its focal range, it's not a terrible lens; it's just not as good as much larger, heavier and more expensive options.

If you want wide, I don't think that you can do better than the EFS10-18. That's spectacular image quality at a steal, though the lens doesn't "feel" very premium. 

So... there you go, that would be  my crop trinity (10-18, 18-135, 70-300 or 55-250), though the 70-300 isn't EFS.

By the way, I really love the EF24-70L f4.  However, on a crop, I find that 24 usually wide enough, but sometimes not quite.  And, that leaves a big gap between 18mm - 24mm, which is an important focal range to me.

mistaspeedy

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2018, 07:47:18 PM »
The new M50 looks nice, but if you want an adapter to use EF or EF-S glass, you need to pay another $200... which  just brings it back up to the price of an 80D.

If Canon really want mirrorless to take off, they should throw in an EF to EF-M adapter for free with mirrorless cameras above a certain price... say $750 or whatever.
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Woody

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2018, 08:25:22 PM »
The APS-C trinity is the EF-S 10-18mm, EF-S 18-55mm and EF-S 55-250mm.  Fixed aperture zooms cost more, and are larger.  Neither of those (particularly the first one) appeal to the majority of APS-C camera buyers.

Agreed. I own the aforementioned APS-C trinity. Awesome optical quality and lightweight. Love them!

Talys

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2018, 12:32:52 AM »
The new M50 looks nice, but if you want an adapter to use EF or EF-S glass, you need to pay another $200... which  just brings it back up to the price of an 80D.

If Canon really want mirrorless to take off, they should throw in an EF to EF-M adapter for free with mirrorless cameras above a certain price... say $750 or whatever.

That will come on the sales.  Canon has included the adapter on M5's, often.

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2018, 12:32:52 AM »

Random Orbits

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2018, 08:38:29 AM »
The new M50 looks nice, but if you want an adapter to use EF or EF-S glass, you need to pay another $200... which  just brings it back up to the price of an 80D.

If Canon really want mirrorless to take off, they should throw in an EF to EF-M adapter for free with mirrorless cameras above a certain price... say $750 or whatever.

That will come on the sales.  Canon has included the adapter on M5's, often.

+1.  I now have 2 adapters.  I got one for the original M (with tripod foot).  I then got a free one with the M5 (without tripod foot).  There is no reason to pay retail for the adapter - look for used for people who have multiple.

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Re: Why no APS-C "Holy Trinity"?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2018, 08:38:29 AM »