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Author Topic: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System  (Read 15228 times)

Jonathan

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2011, 10:39:29 AM »
I think, imho, that Canon doesn't want to make a mirrorless camera, but at least a "mirrorless camera" competitor.
For that, i pretty sure they will keep a mirror.
Either a traditionnal slapping mirror or either a fixed pellix mirror much like Sony and their SLT translucent line.

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2011, 10:39:29 AM »

spam

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2011, 11:45:30 AM »
What else can they say until their evil-system is ready?

Rocky

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2011, 05:20:02 PM »
I can understand why  Canon is hesitate going into the "mirrorless"/ "EVIL" business. They have already have the G12 and S95 for the high end non-professional area. So the new "mirrorless" needs to be in the professional area (read it as expensive). Let us have a look in what most of the existing "mirrorless" models (except Leica M9)now. They  all have auto focus with about 0.3 to 0.5  second shutter focus delay ( same delay for most of the point and shoot). Now howmany professional will or can live with this kind of delay?? Leica M9 takes a totally differeent approach. IT uses manual focusing with built in range finder.So thes hutter delay will be less than 0.1 second. However. This will make the lens and body focusing mechanism to be very complicated. That is why the lens and body are so expensive. Also how many people nowadays knows how to or want to use a range finder for focusing?? Until Canon can come up with a fast auto focusing system based on "Live View", Canon will be hesitate to go into the high end morrorless business.

AJ

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2011, 06:30:13 PM »
IMO the most sensible thing to do would be to have an EF-S compatible system, similar to Sony NEX.

Canon would sell more EF-S lenses, and folks with DSLR bodies might be tempted to pick up a mirror-less body as an addition to the kit.

A mirror-less body coupled with plastic lenses like 18-55 would be pretty compact and light.

Now, Canon, let's please see some light EF-S primes!

Rocky

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2011, 07:09:27 PM »
IMO the most sensible thing to do would be to have an EF-S compatible system, similar to Sony NEX.

Canon would sell more EF-S lenses, and folks with DSLR bodies might be tempted to pick up a mirror-less body as an addition to the kit.

A mirror-less body coupled with plastic lenses like 18-55 would be pretty compact and light.

Now, Canon, let's please see some light EF-S primes!
The mgic word here is "compact  camera system". So in order for it to be compact, the camera needed to be a lot thinner than the existing EOS DSLR. Also due to thinner body, the lens can be made shorter  and  smaller.  Also the EF-S or EF lens mount is relatively big. That will also defeat the "compact"  purpose. So the new system needed to be with all new system lens to make it compact. However, an EF-S/EF lens adapter should be available for people that do not care about size and want to use the existing lens.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 08:08:41 PM by Rocky »

Flake

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2011, 04:48:43 AM »
Having been looking at these cameras with a friend who bought a G12 there are a few pros & cons to them.

The biggest Pro to the evil system is the sensor size is APS-C  (28.7 x 16mm) while the G12 sensor, although larger than other compacts is only 7.6 x 5.7mm  This is the reason I am going to wait until Canon do manage to come up with a camera in this growing sector.

The G12 is without doubt a very good camera and even Iso 800 is useable and it's small enough and light enough to drop into a handbag, which is the problem with the Sony NEX system.  The body is really nice thin & light, it's the lens which is the issue, totally out of proportion with the body and of a similar size to an EF-s type.  It makes a distinct right angle shape which is difficult to carry except in a dedicated case when not in use.

Despite that I want a camera which is not going to be too far away from the 5D MkII currently the G12 sells for £360 The NEX 5 with 18 - 55mm for £480  I'm sure that if Canon can produce a similar product at that kind of price they will have a winner, and looking at the Sony sales I think that will be a matter of when not if.


zalmagor

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2011, 08:19:33 AM »
It seems to me the question is a bit more complex than that.

Canon is constantly working on 7 DSLR lines (1D, 1Ds, 5D, 7D, xxD, xxxD, xxxxD), three lines of compacts, and three lines of lenses (EF, EF-S, and compact).

Question is whether Canon can start another line of bodies with it's own line of lenses (an adapter could be used to make EF lenses compliment this line, but Canon would have to make some new lenses), with money earned making more than the money lost in adjacent camera lines. Making EVIL cameras might make Canon stretch itself too thin.

Considering there are 7 announced lenses that haven't reached the market yet, and the recent events in Japan, I'd be surprised if Canon announced EVIL cameras in the near future.

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2011, 08:19:33 AM »

CR Backup Admin

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2011, 12:54:59 PM »
Canon is definitely working on a compact camera, the recently filed patent for a lens adapter tells us that.  It does not have a quick return mirror, which could mean pellix or mirrorless, but it is definitely a new camera and lens system.

From Patent

[0004]In response to the desire to decrease the size and weight of digital single reflex lens cameras, in recent years a new type of single lens reflex camera that differs from the conventional single lens reflex camera has been proposed. The new type of single lens reflex camera is not provided with a quick return mirror for guiding the imaging light flux to a viewfinder, and the flange back is shorter than that of a conventional camera. The new type of interchangeable lenses having a short flange back that is compatible with this new type of camera has been proposed. However, these new type of interchangeable lenses cannot easily handle a variety of photographic conditions because there are few models. Therefore, there are cases in which it is desirable to use in the new type of camera the conventional type of interchangeable lenses that have already been introduced to the market and for which there are ample models and quantities. Thus, a conversion adapter for connecting the conventional type of interchangeable lenses with the new type of camera body is necessary. The functions required of this conversion adapter generally include matching the differing mounting profiles of the lenses and the camera body, matching the differing flange backs of the lenses and the camera body, and not hindering the communication system between the lenses and the camera body.

kawasakiguy37

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2011, 06:51:25 PM »
Id love to see a mirrorless canon FD mount system, adapter for new lenses.

DuLt

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2011, 07:20:36 PM »
Canon is definitely working on a compact camera, the recently filed patent for a lens adapter tells us that.  It does not have a quick return mirror, which could mean pellix or mirrorless, but it is definitely a new camera and lens system.

From Patent

[0004]In response to the desire to decrease the size and weight of digital single reflex lens cameras, in recent years a new type of single lens reflex camera that differs from the conventional single lens reflex camera has been proposed. The new type of single lens reflex camera is not provided with a quick return mirror for guiding the imaging light flux to a viewfinder, and the flange back is shorter than that of a conventional camera. The new type of interchangeable lenses having a short flange back that is compatible with this new type of camera has been proposed. However, these new type of interchangeable lenses cannot easily handle a variety of photographic conditions because there are few models. Therefore, there are cases in which it is desirable to use in the new type of camera the conventional type of interchangeable lenses that have already been introduced to the market and for which there are ample models and quantities. Thus, a conversion adapter for connecting the conventional type of interchangeable lenses with the new type of camera body is necessary. The functions required of this conversion adapter generally include matching the differing mounting profiles of the lenses and the camera body, matching the differing flange backs of the lenses and the camera body, and not hindering the communication system between the lenses and the camera body.

Is it possible to make a pellix mirror that "somehow" doesn't dim the viewfinder while framing?

dougkerr

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2011, 08:05:09 PM »
Is it possible to make a pellix mirror that "somehow" doesn't dim the viewfinder while framing?
Pellix is the tradename of a Canon camera. It uses a fixed, semi-reflective pellicle mirror (a mirror whose substrate is a stretched thin film - the term itself does not imply anything else about the mirror) in a single-lens reflex configuration.

A single-lens reflex camera using a fixed semi-reflective mirror can have a mirror box that is a bit shorter than the mirror box for a moving mirror system.

A fixed semi-reflective mirror in a single-lens reflex camera (pellicle or otherwise) inevitably results in some light loss in both the taking and viewing paths.

What kind of arrangement do you have in mind?

Best regards,

Doug
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 08:18:14 PM by dougkerr »

dougkerr

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2011, 08:26:40 PM »
Id love to see a mirrorless canon FD mount system, . . .
[/quote]
You mean no autofocus, mechanical aperture control?

Quote
. . . adapter for new lenses.
What kind of new lenses? They would have to have a back flange distance of at least 50mm or so (could not even be EF lenses).

Best regards,

Doug

DuLt

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 08:54:38 PM »
Is it possible to make a pellix mirror that "somehow" doesn't dim the viewfinder while framing?
Pellix is the tradename of a Canon camera. It uses a fixed, semi-reflective pellicle mirror (a mirror whose substrate is a stretched thin film - the term itself does not imply anything else about the mirror) in a single-lens reflex configuration.

A single-lens reflex camera using a fixed semi-reflective mirror can have a mirror box that is a bit shorter than the mirror box for a moving mirror system.

A fixed semi-reflective mirror in a single-lens reflex camera (pellicle or otherwise) inevitably results in some light loss in both the taking and viewing paths.

What kind of arrangement do you have in mind?

Best regards,

Doug

Some sort of kerr cell shutter. The mirror only becomes semi-transparent with an electrical impulse.

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 08:54:38 PM »

dougkerr

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2011, 09:00:03 PM »

Some sort of kerr cell shutter. The mirror only becomes semi-transparent with an electrical impulse.
Oh, interesting thought.

Not invented by me, by the way - by a cousin, we assume.

Best regards,

Doug

DuLt

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2011, 07:12:08 AM »

Some sort of kerr cell shutter. The mirror only becomes semi-transparent with an electrical impulse.
Oh, interesting thought.

Not invented by me, by the way - by a cousin, we assume.

Best regards,

Doug

Off course, that's the basics of all troll physics.

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Re: Canon Doesn't Need a Compact Camera System
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2011, 07:12:08 AM »