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Author Topic: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows  (Read 21848 times)

Ricku

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2012, 04:14:05 AM »
Op (Alexandros), are you kidding me?

No, you are not the only one. I guess you haven't been following the dynamic range debate lately? ;)

Canon is known for banding (pattern noise) and now also underwhelming dynamic range. The 5D line has always had banding, and it seems that Canon doesn't know how to fix it, nor how to increase low ISO DR (at least not during the last 5 years).

Nikon on the other hand, are leaping forward with the sensor in their D800. Well, they are getting their sensors from Sony, but that doesn't really matter.

Canon needs to step up.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 04:31:13 AM by Ricku »

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2012, 04:14:05 AM »

Alexandros

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Marsu42

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2012, 05:35:14 AM »
Hmmm interesting http://colorbyjorg.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/highlight-tone-priority-htp-choice-of-iso-and-noise/
I didn't know that...

HTP *underexposes* your image by 1 stop (that's why it starts at iso200) and then applies a tone curve to raise shadows - of course noise in dark areas & banding is more of a problem. HTP doesn't exchange your Canon sensor for a Sony one behind your back. This feature is only for shooting video & jpeg of high dr scenes where you want to make sure highlights aren't clipped. For raw, underexpose yourself and then recover highlights manually.

Steven_urwin

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2012, 06:00:47 AM »
That reads wrong. Did you mean overexpose, and then pull back the detail from the highlights?
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Marsu42

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2012, 06:25:27 AM »
That reads wrong. Did you mean overexpose, and then pull back the detail from the highlights?

No, it's exactly what I wrote. HTP doesn't give you more highlights, but more definition in highlights by preventing them being clipped - that's why the camera has to *under*expose.

Since the total dynamic range stays the same, at the same time the shadows have to be compressed and are only expanded again with a tone curve in the raw converter or in in-camera jpeg, with the known side-effects banding and/or more shadow noise.

Marsu42

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2012, 08:51:20 AM »
Am I the only one to think that 5d MK3 has very poor performance in shadows, even in low isos like 100 or 200 ?

To the op: You bought yourself the wrong camera body and should have gotten a Nikon d800 instead that improves in *exactly* these both "issues" - dynamic range and low iso performance. Lots of $$$ for gear doesn't tell you what is right for you or how to use it.

It is also correct that people somehow manage to get ok exposures even out of the 5d2/5d3 sensors :-p .. and to answer the original question: No, this is not how it is supposed to be, expose to the right to decompress shadows while avoiding to clip highlights = max. dynamic range with min. noise.

Invertalon

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2012, 09:13:03 AM »
Are you by chance using LR4/LR3 to process these files?

I noticed LR has the tendency to add weird noise patterns and blotches in shadow areas... That does not happen with other RAW converter software. I believe this has been discussed in detail elsewhere as well. I have noticed this forever, even with the 5D2 and 7D prior. Only happens in the darkest shadow areas. It does NOT happen with in-camera JPEG's or if I process using DPP. But I hate DPP, so I use LR4 and suck it up.

EDIT: I saw the EXIF and see you did use LR 4.1... Try processing those in DPP or something and see if it is still there and report back.

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2012, 09:13:03 AM »

SteenerMe

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2012, 09:15:22 AM »
Because do you really think those samples are properly exposed?  A great camera cannot compensate for poor photography.
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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2012, 09:41:01 AM »
Because do you really think those samples are properly exposed?  A great camera cannot compensate for poor photography.
Instead of bashing could you please keep your mouth shut. I tried to be polite before but I am losing my temper. Or t least think before you type. I don't have the right to have a dark underexposed looking image? The shadows should be clean in such situation. I didn't want criticism regarding my images or my technique I just wanted to figure out the noise issue.

Marsu42

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2012, 10:17:50 AM »
I noticed LR has the tendency to add weird noise patterns and blotches in shadow areas...

*Autotone* in LR has the tendency to raise the shadows in underexposed or dark pictures no matter what, resulting in noise & banding in shadow areas. The op's picture is such a case with the small white flowers and the dark red (= only 1 channel) background. In these cases, you have to tune exposure down again and/or lower shadows, Lightroom cannot fix a sensor's deficiencies.

I don't think Adobe Raw Converter adds more noise than DPP - it's *raw* after all. But I'm happy if you prove me wrong and I stand corrected.

Kernuak

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2012, 10:29:55 AM »
Because do you really think those samples are properly exposed?  A great camera cannot compensate for poor photography.
Instead of bashing could you please keep your mouth shut. I tried to be polite before but I am losing my temper. Or t least think before you type. I don't have the right to have a dark underexposed looking image? The shadows should be clean in such situation. I didn't want criticism regarding my images or my technique I just wanted to figure out the noise issue.
Actually, whether or not the image is underexposed is extremely pertinent (I don't know whether yours is or not). If you underexpose (either accidentally, deliberately or as a result of using HTP), then noise will be significantly higher. Each time you increase exposure by a stop in post, you double the amount of noise. It's a matter of physics, regardless of how much or little noise the sensor captures to start with. Also, as others have said, the early versions of Lightroom after a camera release have a tendency to process images sub-optimally. For example, when I first got my 7D, the images looked soft with double exposure-like effects on the transitions between very dark and very light areas (such as the black and white feathers of oystercatchers). Upgrading from LR2 to LR3 mostly resolved the issue.
In order to test whether it is a sensor issue, you need to make sure you expose correctly (I actually tend to err on the side of slight overexposure to minimise noise), with HTP switched off and processed by both LR and DPP. It is the only way you can be sure it isn't a problem with the sensor.
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SteenerMe

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2012, 10:43:04 AM »
Sure you have the right to have bad underexposed images. But then why complain about it.  Maybe if you overexpose by 5 stops you can complain about the camera making everything so white and blown out. It must be a bad sensor. Not a bad photographer. Knucklehead.
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sparda79

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2012, 11:18:39 AM »
The noise seems quite bad even when the ACR settings are set to default. But since you enable HTP, I'll just wait until you upload some RAWs with HTP disabled, and ignore all the rude comments.

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2012, 11:18:39 AM »

RLPhoto

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2012, 11:24:00 AM »
Am I the only one to think that 5d MK3 has very poor performance in shadows, even in low isos like 100 or 200 ? High color noise, weird noise patterns, vertical bands/stripes all without any pushing!!!
Straight out of the box the images look terrible in the shadow areas.
Why is that? I am very disappointed. VERY disappointed ...
Even my poor old 350d did better in that domain...
Is there something wrong with my copy or is it supposed to be like this ?

Did you turn off all ALO and HTP on your camera? It always adds extra noise in you photos as it tries to pull more details in the blacks. I never use either on my 7D and clean files.

wickidwombat

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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2012, 06:43:38 PM »
I turn off all that in camera process junk, the raws are clean, I wish You could trade in useless features for features you actually want like trade in all this waffle and in camera HDR for the ability to customise everything more

or for video guys enable some fancy shooting mode i dont know anything about but they really might like
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Re: 5D MarkIII Low ISO performance in shadows
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2012, 06:43:38 PM »