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Author Topic: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]  (Read 21791 times)

japhoto

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2012, 06:09:42 PM »
I know its a little off topic, but, I find it interesting how many of you are willing to shell out more $$$$ for IS on lenses below 100MM in focal length, but also balk at the cost of the 5dmk3 and say its not worth it, marginal upgrade,  no DR...etc etc etc.  Just saying...
My observation is that reactions were not very enthusiastic about the new 24mm & 28mm IS versions considering the price!

I think the usefulness of these lenses is a bigger issue than the added cost for IS. What I mean by that is both of these are f/2.8 lenses and the focal lengths are more often than not covered already. They just aren't interesting as they are primes but not fast aperture. I'd be interested if it were for example a 24mm 1.4 L IS.

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: July 08, 2012, 06:09:42 PM »

wickidwombat

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #76 on: July 08, 2012, 08:15:15 PM »
oh my god if this is true i'm gonna be all over this like a fat chick on a smarty
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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2012, 04:09:23 AM »
Remember the vast majority of cameras Canon now sells are APS-C, so 50mm is the new 80mm and IS is definitely helpful under some situations at that focal length.

And if a smaller sensor is in a future mirrorless camera then that 80mm could be 105mm??
Canon have only recently been building lenses for video and mirrorless that also fit on EF mounts.
Canon 60D, 24-105, 50 F1.8. 430EX II.
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robbinzo

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2012, 04:59:01 AM »
Personally I think Canon are hedging and going for the video market as well as fast prime market with this lens. Are Canon trying to put some daylight between the f/1.2 L lens and the next 50 mm prime in the line up? So now you will have the choice of plastic toy f/1.8, solidly built IS f/1.8 or f/1.2 bokeh porn.
But then if this f/1.8 IS lens turns out to be similar in price to the 24 & 28 mm IS models, the f/1.2 L starts to be less of a jump in price and you can end up justifying that cost to yourself all too quickly.

I agree with other comments that f/1.8 is not a replacement for f/1.4 and I also think that it's creeping towards the slower end of "fast."
I like the current f/1.4 50 mm lens. I think that it is in need of a refresh but a lot of us like the fact that it is light, relatively cheap and has the f/1.4 aperture.

This lens doesn't immediately appeal to me.
70D, 10-22mm EFS, 17-40mm L, 15-85mm EFS, 100L macro, 50mm f/1.4

Edwin Herdman

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2012, 11:45:34 AM »
With current Canon cameras (up to the 7D at least), reports put the fastest aperture that increases light to the sensor at f/2.  If you shoot at f/1.4, the ISO is "invisibly" bumped (it still reports as say ISO 100 but the files are noisier than they should be).  For a f/1.4 lens, this will effectively limit you to say ISO 200 if you wish to stick with "whole" (un-pushed, un-pulled) ISOs.  For the f/1.8 lens, that's a third of a stop and might prove more challenging to get a "whole" ISO out of.  Stopping down to f/2 is possible but I couldn't guess how good the OOF highlights will still be.

I'd much rather see another f/1.4 lens to replace the 50mm.  This cost cutting nonsense is not helpful.  Still, IS and STM or USM would be nice improvements.

markd61

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: July 09, 2012, 12:22:09 PM »
With current Canon cameras (up to the 7D at least), reports put the fastest aperture that increases light to the sensor at f/2.  If you shoot at f/1.4, the ISO is "invisibly" bumped (it still reports as say ISO 100 but the files are noisier than they should be).

I'm sorry but this is simply not true in any way shape or form. The f stop is a ratio that describes the light transmission (I know T-stops are the real deal but we are working in the vernacular here) of the lens. Saying that an f1.4 lens doesn't pass any more light than an f2 lens is nonsense. To suggest that a camera would "know" that an f1.4 lens or faster was mounted and would choose to "throw a way the extra light is also ludicrous.

Any increase in noise could very easily be attributed to the whack technique or conspiracy agenda employed by some fool and a blog.

facedodge

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2012, 02:18:13 PM »
I think most people are missing the point here. Canon is putting IS in all of these normal and wide angle lenses for video. (i.e. 24mm IS, 28mm Is...)

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2012, 02:18:13 PM »

RLPhoto

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2012, 02:50:26 PM »
LENS SPEED >>> IMAGE STABILIZATION  in 50mms anyway. 8)
You need to stop down the lens  to get the depth of field for the interior shots. So speed is useless even for 50mm

If your stopping down, Why are you using primes again? ???

RLPhoto

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2012, 03:46:32 PM »
LENS SPEED >>> IMAGE STABILIZATION  in 50mms anyway. 8)
You need to stop down the lens  to get the depth of field for the interior shots. So speed is useless even for 50mm

If your stopping down, Why are you using primes again? ???

Is there any rule says that you cannot stop down a prime???

Nope, But it m00ts the biggest benefit of primes. SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED. 8)

Just use an F/4 Zoom then.

RLPhoto

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: July 09, 2012, 04:05:56 PM »
LENS SPEED >>> IMAGE STABILIZATION  in 50mms anyway. 8)
You need to stop down the lens  to get the depth of field for the interior shots. So speed is useless even for 50mm

If your stopping down, Why are you using primes again? ???

Is there any rule says that you cannot stop down a prime???

Nope, But it m00ts the biggest benefit of primes. SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED. 8)

Just use an F/4 Zoom then.
May be canon should take away the aperture on ALL prime lenses.









 ;D

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: July 09, 2012, 07:38:38 PM »
....Are Canon trying to put some daylight between the f/1.2 L lens and the next 50 mm prime in the line up? So now you will have the choice of plastic toy f/1.8, solidly built IS f/1.8 or f/1.2 bokeh porn.....

This lens doesn't immediately appeal to me.

I am in no super rush to go with a prime, and yeah, if the 1.4 becomes a 1.8 with IS and is priced like the other new IS primes (guessing it will land at around $850) then for sure the 1.2 starts looking a lot more worth it.  If I go with a prime though....its part of a larger shift in gear.  I am currently rocking the 10-22, 24-70, and 70-200.  The 10-22...sigh, got it last year because my main body was a 7d.  Now I have the mk3 and am kind of betting that the 7d may end up not getting much use.  So the idea is to trade up on a few things...swap 10-22 for 16-35 (of course, not a fair even swap).  Then maybe drop the 24-70 in favor of the 50mm prime.  Well, that was the old plan, its funny how FF changes things because the 24-70 is like a new lens to me now...lol
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Edwin Herdman

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2012, 02:28:40 AM »
With current Canon cameras (up to the 7D at least), reports put the fastest aperture that increases light to the sensor at f/2.  If you shoot at f/1.4, the ISO is "invisibly" bumped (it still reports as say ISO 100 but the files are noisier than they should be).

I'm sorry but this is simply not true in any way shape or form.
Just so nobody is harmed by this breathtakingly assured response:

I must affirm that what I write is true.  I can mention some useful resources for understanding related phenomena: Expose-to-the-right and the non-linear response curves of digital camera sensors; the most relevant information for persuading you is in this thread and especially here.  In short, you, sir, are completely wrong.

If you would like to test it out, it is simple to see it in action:

Find a recent Canon camera, set ISO manually, and switch to A/v mode.  Slap a lens faster than f/2.8 on it (I thought it was f/2; it might actually be wider, I'll have to look at this again).  Shoot at f/2.8 and then shoot at the widest setting.  You will notice that the image is noisier (and, depending on the lens used, there may be vignetting as well, but this is not the important effect to notice).  By the theory, image brightness and noise should remain constant, since we are holding ISO constant, and exposure is simply light intensity * duration.  But quite obviously that is not what happens; the image becomes noisier.

In truth, the manufacturer's declared ISO settings are not scientific measurements - the scientific measurements given by DxOMark show that for every camera (regardless of manufacturer) the ISO sensitivities are not linear or even very predictable compared to what they "should" be.

I do not consider mentioning this issue to be a burden to other users, since it's fairly easy to comprehend (I gather that it is due to the narrow angle of current photosites restricting the angles at which light is effectively gathered, but in any case the effect is clear).

Digital SLRs are not film cameras, and the final image brightness and grain is affected by much more than just the user's selected settings.

____________

To the gentle users of the forum in general, I will leave with this final thought - DSLR "best practice" can be confusing to master.  The main thing to consider, if you want to have clean files, is to get as much information into the highlight section of your RAW by keeping the image bright without burning out highlights.  The second thing, of course, is to use low ISOs when possible.  Finally, there is a limit to how high you should crank ISOs in most Canon DSLRs; it is not necessary to get the image looking bright enough on the camera's preview screen, because that is not the final version of the image.  Instead, you may brighten the image afterward to retain your settings and a reasonable ISO.

How do you find the point at which brightening in post is better than pumping the ISO (obviously, if you just shoot JPEGs or can't be bothered, don't worry, but your image quality won't be as good as possible)?  Look at the sensorgen charts from the DxOMark data, specifically the point at which the "read noise" curve goes flat, no improvement (or even shoots upward).  On the 7D, that point is ISO 800 or 1600.  On the T1i, it was ISO 800.

How do you brighten the image?  Not with DPP.  Daniel Browning recommended RawTherapee last year; there is also The GIMP, Lightroom, or Darktable (a Lightroom replacement for Linux boxen).

It is worth mentioning that there are other losses at High ISO:  Dynamic range and saturation capacity (I believe saturation capacity is essentially a measure of how even the image is, since it measures the number of pixels that reliably reflect a gray target, instead of appearing in the final image to be some other shade).

The culprit, as Daniel Browning mentions, and also Gregg Siam, is that the photosites of Canon DSLRs don't respond equally well to light coming in from unusual angles.  In fact, slight purple and green fringing in some lenses has been blamed on this, as well.

pulsiv

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2012, 04:52:46 AM »
it seems as if we should get used to the fact that canon will not give its fans/customers what they want... but something close to that... and then some 1 or 2 years later the "real deal" may come... but in the meantime we bought something we didn't really want, just because its a tiny bit better than the "old" stuff.

I'm dissapointed, if this 1.8 IS lens is becoming the replacement for the 1.4
there would be no benefits from that lens (and from my point of view).
I feel, an updated 50mm 1.4 with real USM and better built quality would find a lot of fans.
(maybe canon feels, the "old" 1.4 was a too good bargain...)

but I guess thats what canon wants: if you need a faster lens, you will have to buy an L...

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2012, 04:52:46 AM »

adamdoesmovies

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2012, 06:45:43 AM »
I noticed NO ONE seems to have mentioned the best part about IS lenses: they also stabilize video extremely well.  Even an optically-impossible F/0.6 isn't going to keep a sharp steady image when shooting video handheld at 50mm!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 07:51:00 AM by adamdoesmovies »

Ellen Schmidtee

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2012, 08:48:13 AM »
With current Canon cameras (up to the 7D at least), reports put the fastest aperture that increases light to the sensor at f/2.  If you shoot at f/1.4, the ISO is "invisibly" bumped (it still reports as say ISO 100 but the files are noisier than they should be).

I'm sorry but this is simply not true in any way shape or form. The f stop is a ratio that describes the light transmission (I know T-stops are the real deal but we are working in the vernacular here) of the lens. Saying that an f1.4 lens doesn't pass any more light than an f2 lens is nonsense. To suggest that a camera would "know" that an f1.4 lens or faster was mounted and would choose to "throw a way the extra light is also ludicrous.

Can't find the source at the moment, but the original claim was that the additional light coming through hits the sensor at such an oblique angle, that it doesn't go into the pixel wells.

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Re: A New EF 50 f/1.8 IS? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2012, 08:48:13 AM »