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Author Topic: First Time Flash Test  (Read 2802 times)

wamsankas

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First Time Flash Test
« on: August 08, 2012, 09:40:10 PM »
Hey all im renting the 600 EXRT for some group family shots this weekend so tested it out on my dog. this is all just on camera trying to bounce it different ways. Any tips would be great i really dont have much idea what i am doing. i have the 5d Mark iii. Also why would there not be a built in transmitter in the mark iii to the 600 ex? technology is definitely there to have the flash off the camera and release it without having to buy a $150 transmitter.

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First Time Flash Test
« on: August 08, 2012, 09:40:10 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 09:46:43 PM »
... why would there not be a built in transmitter in the mark iii to the 600 ex? technology is definitely there to have the flash off the camera and release it without having to buy a $150 transmitter.

You just answered that question...so Canon can sell the transmitter (which costs double the price you suggest).
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wamsankas

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 11:27:13 PM »
... why would there not be a built in transmitter in the mark iii to the 600 ex? technology is definitely there to have the flash off the camera and release it without having to buy a $150 transmitter.

You just answered that question...so Canon can sell the transmitter (which costs double the price you suggest).

I think thats a silly way of looking at it (which people do about all companies) instead just bump the mark iii price by $200 and add this "awesome new feature!" people would be happier with that and they would make more money. the price point the camera is at wont differ peoples opinions on buying. good features will.

neuroanatomist

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 11:38:05 PM »
I think thats a silly way of looking at it (which people do about all companies) instead just bump the mark iii price by $200 and add this "awesome new feature!" people would be happier with that and they would make more money. the price point the camera is at wont differ peoples opinions on buying. good features will.

Granted, we're drifting off-topic here, but something else people do is fail to see the big picture.  The profit margin on accessories is high - just look at what Canon charges for lens hoods.  An 'awesome new feature' on a 5-series that's not also on the 1-series flagship...there can be some of those, but there's a limit.  The other reailty is that for many higher-end goods, the cost to produce is not directly related to the price of sale.  Price is driven by what marketing research determines that the market will bear, and secondarily by a need to recoup R&D expenditures.  From that standpoint, adding an 'awesome new feature' (which required hardware) simply cuts into the profit margin. 

As we've already seen, the 5DIII has plenty of 'awesome new features' and is selling very well - more new features aren't likely to help...but a separate sale of an accessory, that's more profit. 
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Drizzt321

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2012, 11:40:01 PM »
I think thats a silly way of looking at it (which people do about all companies) instead just bump the mark iii price by $200 and add this "awesome new feature!" people would be happier with that and they would make more money. the price point the camera is at wont differ peoples opinions on buying. good features will.

Granted, we're drifting off-topic here, but something else people do is fail to see the big picture.  The profit margin on accessories is high - just look at what Canon charges for lens hoods.  An 'awesome new feature' on a 5-series that's not also on the 1-series flagship...there can be some of those, but there's a limit.  The other reailty is that for many higher-end goods, the cost to produce is not directly related to the price of sale.  Price is driven by what marketing research determines that the market will bear, and secondarily by a need to recoup R&D expenditures.  From that standpoint, adding an 'awesome new feature' (which required hardware) simply cuts into the profit margin. 

As we've already seen, the 5DIII has plenty of 'awesome new features' and is selling very well - more new features aren't likely to help...but a separate sale of an accessory, that's more profit.

At the same time, if it was built into the 5d3 I might have been more motivated to buy some of the 600RT, or 4xxRT when they come out instead of the YN-560 + Phottix Strator's that I bought. After using them, as well as reading about some of the Canon RT limitations, I'm actually kinda glad I got the Strator now.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 12:20:58 AM »
Ok, enough about marketing.  ::)

You mention bouncing, but the shots appear to be outdoors. What are you bouncing off, foamcore or equivalent, a reflector, a garage door, etc.?  In all 3 shots (most evident on the first two), the flash has strongly overpowered the background, that's usually not ideal.  Open the aperture a bit (can't drop shutter too low else subject motion is an issue), apply some negative FEC so your filling instead of overwhelming.

The group family shots - how many people, indoors or out, day or night, what lens(es) will you be using? 
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wamsankas

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 01:01:08 AM »
Ok, enough about marketing.  ::)

You mention bouncing, but the shots appear to be outdoors. What are you bouncing off, foamcore or equivalent, a reflector, a garage door, etc.?  In all 3 shots (most evident on the first two), the flash has strongly overpowered the background, that's usually not ideal.  Open the aperture a bit (can't drop shutter too low else subject motion is an issue), apply some negative FEC so your filling instead of overwhelming.

The group family shots - how many people, indoors or out, day or night, what lens(es) will you be using?

I did some bounce off the side of my house and did some rotating of the flash so it wasnt so direct. for the family shots it will be anywhere between 4 and 30 people. i wont have any assistant just myself and the 600 strapped to the top of the 5d. it may be outdoors or indoors. i want to do indoors for flash purposes. lens wise ill be using my 16-35 2.8 ii for the larger family shots and probably 24-105 for the rest. Is there any obvious setting on the 600ex to change or just stay in ettl mode? i also see im restricted to 1/200th of a sec and i realize that it doesnt matter because the camera is just playing off the flash in terms of shutter release. I think that is right?

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 01:01:08 AM »

AdamJ

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 02:18:28 AM »
Did you shoot these in manual? In manual, the foreground subject will be properly exposed but the unlit background will be exposed according to your manual settings. Especially when outdoors, I'd suggest also playing around in Aperture Priority which will expose for the whole scene while providing fill-in flash for the subject.

Concerning off-camera flash triggering, I'm not a Yongnuo fanboy but I'm genuinely quite excited about their new YN-622C radio triggers. They allegedly provide fully featured E-TTL II wireless control (when used with 430II, 580II and 600, among others) and if I understand correctly - but don't hold me to it - the radio system is cross-compatible with Canon's. They've just gone on sale at $110 for a pair of transceivers. I'm waiting for some reviews to see if they work as advertised.

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 04:38:37 AM »
If you need higher sync speed than 1/200 sec, you can try high speed sync mode on your 600.

Make sure you continue to practice as higher shutter speeds may need you to get closer to your subject - Neuro can probably provide you with an explanation whether you are likely to benefit from HSS.

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CJRodgers

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 07:08:15 AM »
Did you shoot these in manual? In manual, the foreground subject will be properly exposed but the unlit background will be exposed according to your manual settings. Especially when outdoors, I'd suggest also playing around in Aperture Priority which will expose for the whole scene while providing fill-in flash for the subject.

Concerning off-camera flash triggering, I'm not a Yongnuo fanboy but I'm genuinely quite excited about their new YN-622C radio triggers. They allegedly provide fully featured E-TTL II wireless control (when used with 430II, 580II and 600, among others) and if I understand correctly - but don't hold me to it - the radio system is cross-compatible with Canon's. They've just gone on sale at $110 for a pair of transceivers. I'm waiting for some reviews to see if they work as advertised.


Does this mean they will be able to do HSS? That would be awesome.


OP, I thin the flash on the dog is great, you just need to get the backround correct. I sometimes quite like the backround being underexposed though, but this might be just a bit too much. Well done.

Viggo

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2012, 07:56:01 AM »
I'm not using canon radio's so thank god they didn't put that (and all the other optional stuff in there, like gps and wifi) because I don't wanna pay for them when I'm not going to use them.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 08:47:15 AM »
I did some bounce off the side of my house and did some rotating of the flash so it wasnt so direct. for the family shots it will be anywhere between 4 and 30 people. i wont have any assistant just myself and the 600 strapped to the top of the 5d. it may be outdoors or indoors. i want to do indoors for flash purposes.

One flash will have a tough time trying to light a group of 30 people.  Basic things to keep in mind are that the bigger the light source, the softer the light (softer = better), and light from above or the side are better than straight on.  If you have white ceilings that are low enough, point the flash up and bounce off that - a ceiling is a big light source (if colored, though, it will color the light).  The 600EX-RT has a catchlight panel  that you can pull up to throw a little direct light when you bounce, that adds nice catchlights to the eyes.

lens wise ill be using my 16-35 2.8 ii for the larger family shots and probably 24-105 for the rest.

Both are good, make sure you use a deep enough DoF for a group.  Also, if you go wider than 20mm and you're using direct flash as fill outdoors, pull out the wide panel on the flash.

Is there any obvious setting on the 600ex to change or just stay in ettl mode? i also see im restricted to 1/200th of a sec and i realize that it doesnt matter because the camera is just playing off the flash in terms of shutter release. I think that is right?

E-TTL II works pretty well, but I often find I need a bit of FEC.  The 1/200 s max shutter results from the max sync speed of the camera shutter.  The workaround is to use high speed sync (HSS, the camera fires a burst of pulses instead of a single flash), but that limits your flash power.  Wouldn't be needed indoors most likely, but outdoors if there's bright daylight you might need it for an f/2.8 shot (unlikely with f/4), it's most useful for shooting fast primes wide open outdoors, although I usually need an ND as well.
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brianboru

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2012, 10:26:56 AM »
I just picked up my first off camera flash a month ago. I found Syl Arena's talk at B&H to be a nice place to start. http://pixsylated.com/blog/getting-the-most-out-of-canon-speedlites/
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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2012, 10:26:56 AM »

AdamJ

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2012, 10:39:22 AM »
Did you shoot these in manual? In manual, the foreground subject will be properly exposed but the unlit background will be exposed according to your manual settings. Especially when outdoors, I'd suggest also playing around in Aperture Priority which will expose for the whole scene while providing fill-in flash for the subject.

Concerning off-camera flash triggering, I'm not a Yongnuo fanboy but I'm genuinely quite excited about their new YN-622C radio triggers. They allegedly provide fully featured E-TTL II wireless control (when used with 430II, 580II and 600, among others) and if I understand correctly - but don't hold me to it - the radio system is cross-compatible with Canon's. They've just gone on sale at $110 for a pair of transceivers. I'm waiting for some reviews to see if they work as advertised.

Does this mean they will be able to do HSS? That would be awesome.


Yes, up to 1/8,000s, at least that's what they say.

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Re: First Time Flash Test
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2012, 10:39:22 AM »