HONEST users of Canon Bodies who earn their living with photography

[nda]

No No No, there must be something wrong with camera(s), I have a 40d, 5d2 & 1d4 no problems sure they miss here and there but not 6 out of 6, have you had the bodies checked from Canon?

[mingulay]

Thank you all for the variety of feedbacks.

Up to now I see several points.

The shots described were taken in conditions which were not "ideal". It was indoors, the light was coming in through the windows. Having had the light in the back on the other hand means that it was not the most difficult of tasks. In spending 7000$ for a high end body I would expect it to perform under conditions like that. Maybe I expect too much. But then why spend so much?

There seem to be inconsistencies in the quality of the bodies. Something I find unacceptable in that range of the product line. But again I maybe expect too much.

The remark regarding the poor quality of the 24-70 2.8 is certainly true. But I wonder whether the camera or the lens failed. The shots were not unsharp or soft (as they often are with that lens) but clearly out of focus.

Manual focussing is ok and often a good alternative. But shooting weddings you often can't take that time. And again: Going for the flagships makes me expecting that they can perform.

After all there seem to be some folks who trust in the newest bodies. At least a sign of hope.

[neuroanatomist]

i had this problem before and it turned out a camera problem.  i found out by using a big newspaper, laid it down on a flat surface, choose a letter and focus on that letter with camera angle to that newspaper at less than 45 degree (wide open and closest to the newspaper to get a great shallow dof, in your case would be around 1.3ft.)  i am not sure about your case, it might be a camera problem or lens problem.

Sounds like a test method problem, in this case.  As I mentioned above, the actual AF point is larger than the little box representing it in the viewfinder, even with Spot AF:



So...while you may think you're focusing on a specific letter, the camera can't read your mind - it's going to grab onto the feature with the greatest phase difference (contrast) along the proper orientation for the sensor line, within the actual AF area, even if that's outside the little box you placed squarely over that specific letter. 

This is one reason why I always ask how people have done the AF Microadjustment, because if you do it wrong (as you would have likely done with the newspaper test as described), you get an incorrect adjustment, and that leads to a high proportion of OOF shots. 

[rumorzmonger]

<inappropriate comment deleted by moderator>

[mingulay]

I don't know if rumorzmonger deliberatly tried to offend me? Maybe images tell more than words?

[insanitybeard]

I think it was to be deliberately provocative...... in any case, I don't know what such remarks are meant to achieve... mingulay, I particularly like the second shot.

[candyman]

I don't know if rumorzmonger deliberatly tried to offend me? Maybe images tell more than words?

Great photos!
Visited your website as well. Great work!

[neuroanatomist]

+1.  You've got some great work in your portfolio!

[Orangutan]

Please listen to neuroanatomist.  I don't always agree with him but, when it comes to technical issues, the guy really knows his stuff.

I see three possibilities:

1. You have had numerous bad bodies over your career
2. You have not done AFMA correctly
3. You have an incorrect understanding of how Canon AF works, and your technique causes the problem

Bad bodies happen, but at a small rate.  A simple probability calculation tells us that some random people will see more than one bad body; however, it's now time to consider the other two options.  I work in computers (cameras are now computers) and I can tell you that when I find myself frustrated and wanting to scream "but it works for everyone else, why not for me...."  that's my cue: I'm probably doing something wrong.  When it comes to computers I'm really good at what I do, but I still make mistakes.  You're a very good photographer, but you may be making mistakes.

Please see if there are other pros in your area who would work with you on AF technique, or search the web for all the info you can get.  Do a bunch of careful test shots.  At this point it's likely something you're doing.

I like your photos, and hope you can resolve this difficulty.

[canon816]

I am sorry that you are having these issues.

I am sure that you are a fully capable photographer (and your work is very nice) however the fact that you have been having such difficulty with AF on several different bodies leads me to suspect that there is more user error here or lens issues rather then camera hardware error.

I have a 1DIV and shoot wildlife.  I shoot all the time and have fired off tens of thousands of frames and I must say that it has the most responsive and accurate AF system I have ever experienced.  It is dead on with birds in flight even when the birds represent a small portion of the center AF point.  Even when I stray from the Center AF point the camera locks onto subject extremely fast and reliably.

I also own the 5DII which in my opinion does have a poor AF system.  However, this is only an issue when shooting fast moving subjects.  For event photography I find it to be 100% reliable.  The AF is not the fastest, but it is very reliable.

To answer your question about the 5DIII, I just bought one and have only taken about 1000 images.  I will say that it is much advanced over the 5DII and as good as my 1DIV.

Do you notice that you have more problems with one specific lens?  Maybe that is the problem. 
Have you ever sent in your camera body to be serviced by Canon?

Good luck!

[Meh]

I don't know if rumorzmonger deliberatly tried to offend me? Maybe images tell more than words?

Clearly a definite intention to offend you... so just ignore it.   Very nice shots in your portfolio.

[Studio1930]

ouch.. 6 out of 6 missed focus?? even my old historic 30D wouldn't do it.
using my 5d3 and the focus is nail on everytime (95%+).. my 1d2 is also very reliable at AF. hitting focus around 85%

I have the 24-70 and i think that lense is horrible at AF, most of my missed AF is from that lense, thus i rarely use it

I agree.  My 24-70 is the worst lens in my bag for AF.  With that being said, my 1DX nails the focus 98% of the time after I learned how to use it properly.  My 1D4 nails the focus about 75% of the time.  All of my lenses are calibrated using ReiKan FoCal software which also validates all of my focus points (a few points are not that good).  I also have determined where the sweet spot is for the aperture on my lenses by using this software.  Most are around f/8 and no higher.

[Northstar]

Please listen to neuroanatomist.  I don't always agree with him but, when it comes to technical issues, the guy really knows his stuff.

I see three possibilities:

1. You have had numerous bad bodies over your career
2. You have not done AFMA correctly
3. You have an incorrect understanding of how Canon AF works, and your technique causes the problem

Bad bodies happen, but at a small rate.  A simple probability calculation tells us that some random people will see more than one bad body; however, it's now time to consider the other two options.  I work in computers (cameras are now computers) and I can tell you that when I find myself frustrated and wanting to scream "but it works for everyone else, why not for me...."  that's my cue: I'm probably doing something wrong.  When it comes to computers I'm really good at what I do, but I still make mistakes.  You're a very good photographer, but you may be making mistakes.

Please see if there are other pros in your area who would work with you on AF technique, or search the web for all the info you can get.  Do a bunch of careful test shots.  At this point it's likely something you're doing.

I like your photos, and hope you can resolve this difficulty.

+1

With what you've described, the odds are in favor of user error.  With that said, it's obvious that you are a great photographer(I went to your website - very nice)  So the conclusion is that you are just "missing" something (from a technical standpoint) about the AF system/capabilities that when combined with a certain situation (group in low light) leads to OOF shots.

My 5d3 AF works very well....fast and accurate.

I'm curious though...when you took these photos, did you use single point?  And if yes, are you saying that you locked on a subject with single point and then the AF system selected the wall behind?

[awinphoto]

Thought I would chime in... As far as the mis-focus, there are so many possible things going on...  First of all, the 5d2's AF isn't the best, in fact, it's just not even average...  Granted, Back in the day when I used to shoot xxd cameras that had the same (similar) 5d2 AF and configuration I thought it was OK... but really the latest generation of AF in the 7d, 5d3 and 1dx are really hands down, to me, superior.  They do require some relearning as they are vastly different beasts and takes practice to master, but once you do, they are hard to miss with.  As far as the 1d bodies, and in general, you mention specific situations where focus was off, but what percentage of shots were off?  Was it merely in specific situations on challenging lighting conditions and so on and so forth where every camera you used just bad in, or was certain cameras better than others, or...?  You give a rough idea of your plight, but really if your getting 70-80% keepers and the tough situations let you down, then it may be your asking for too much... for what it's worth, 5d2 isn't the best low light camera, 1d4 have had complaints of low light tracking, the same with 1d3 and 5d classic...  The 1d3 had a recall on the AF if my memory serves me right...  The 1d4, in low light with single shot and manual point select, to me, should AF quite well...  but I would suppose if you have it in Ai Servo in low light, It might be tough going...  Also some lenses focus faster than others, which means they can lock focus faster but then if the camera for a split seconds breaks contact with the point it was focused on, could, in ai servo, quickly jump off the focus plane..  As far as my advice, if your pocketbook can afford the 1dx, get it...  worst case scenario, if you dont like it, you can sell it for almost no loss in $$...  If your budget is a big tight, get the 5d3... give either or both a chance for you to test, learn and relearn the system... you dont know how many threads have been started here with 5d2 and 1d series shooters moving to the 5d3 and 1dx and not being able to figure the AF out...  There is a learning curve so take your time.  Once mastered take them on a paid shoot and sink or swim... I think you would be blown away, but then again if you go into the shoot halfway jaded, you may leave the shoot just as critical.  So anyways those are my suggestions from an honest user of Canon bodies who earns their living with photography for the last 10 years. 

[ishdakuteb]

i had this problem before and it turned out a camera problem.  i found out by using a big newspaper, laid it down on a flat surface, choose a letter and focus on that letter with camera angle to that newspaper at less than 45 degree (wide open and closest to the newspaper to get a great shallow dof, in your case would be around 1.3ft.)  i am not sure about your case, it might be a camera problem or lens problem.

Sounds like a test method problem, in this case.  As I mentioned above, the actual AF point is larger than the little box representing it in the viewfinder, even with Spot AF:



So...while you may think you're focusing on a specific letter, the camera can't read your mind - it's going to grab onto the feature with the greatest phase difference (contrast) along the proper orientation for the sensor line, within the actual AF area, even if that's outside the little box you placed squarely over that specific letter. 

This is one reason why I always ask how people have done the AF Microadjustment, because if you do it wrong (as you would have likely done with the newspaper test as described), you get an incorrect adjustment, and that leads to a high proportion of OOF shots.

that is the reason why i am saying "a big newspaper", which also means that the newspaper must have big letter for me focus on.  yes, you are right... i was using AF microadjustment method to test my camera.  i do not have enough tools during that time, so i choose that way for a quick test to find out my camera problem (missed focus all the time).

note:  many thanks for the picture, this is the pix that i have been looking for... to know about spot AF and single spot AF dimensions (need to know this to perform accurate measure light instead of zoom in).  however, i am still in learning time...