A Look into Canon’s Ergonomics

[EOS 4 Life]

You'd think with the greater battery drains having grips for each camera would be a no brainer.

It could just be that they did not sell well enough.

 

[wyotex43n]

You could do this yourself with a drop of epoxy glue

For the price we shouldn't have to do that. I would have been so simple for them to do. Hope the mark 2 model fixes it.

 

[danfaz]

For the price we shouldn't have to do that. I would have been so simple for them to do. Hope the mark 2 model fixes it.

Fixes it? It's not a problem, at least not on a large scale I've heard about. Not sure what the price of the camera has to do with not being able to distinguish or remember where these buttons are. The Q button sits in its own little section that is raised above the thumb "rest area," and the Info and Zoom are in a slightly raised section above that, with the Zoom button directly above the Info button. The more you use the camera, you start to remember where the buttons are.
And if every button needs to be made bigger, spaced apart futher, or have bumps on them so that they are all easily distinguishable wearing gloves, you'd need a pretty large camera.

 

[EricN]

For the price we shouldn't have to do that. I would have been so simple for them to do. Hope the mark 2 model fixes it.

Do you want to solve your problem now or do you want to complain until they do what you want?

 

[EricN]

Fixes it? It's not a problem, at least not on a large scale I've heard about. Not sure what the price of the camera has to do with not being able to distinguish or remember where these buttons are. The Q button sits in its own little section that is raised above the thumb "rest area," and the Info and Zoom are in a slightly raised section above that, with the Zoom button directly above the Info button. The more you use the camera, you start to remember where the buttons are.
And if every button needs to be made bigger, spaced apart futher, or have bumps on them so that they are all easily distinguishable wearing gloves, you'd need a pretty large camera.

Every button will need a button because different people will want a bump on different buttons. That's going to look like my face when I was 17...

 

[AlanF]

What I really cannot understand and forgive is the design of the rear lens cap, as it fits in just one position.
Changing lenses in the field has become much more fiddly and takes 3 times as long.

The Russian Roulette rear lens cap is a Nikon invention, and it has taken many Canon years to catch up with it. Perhaps, Canon will start zooming the Nikon way next?

 

[Maximilian]

The Russian Roulette rear lens cap is a Nikon invention, and it has taken many Canon years to catch up with it. Perhaps, Canon will start zooming the Nikon way next?

Lovely! Thank you, Alan!

 

[justaCanonuser]

This is by far the longest article I've written. I could have wrote twice as much on this as well, but decided to pull back from the dark abyss. I hope you all enjoy it - just remember ergonomics are intrinsically a personal preference. Heck, some misguided souls even like Sony ergonomics.

There are 5 pages to this, so you have to click the page buttons at the bottom to advance the article. Something that Craig and I are experimenting with - we have some other things cooking for your reading pleasure in the coming months.

I enjoyed much reading your article - it isn't too long, for me at least. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us. My first plunge into the RF system was (and is) the R7, because I never liked the AF system performance of my 7DII. With FF, I still use my 5D4 (and an EOS 3 or other film cameras). Overall, I do like the R7 very much, it is a little power pack. But with the thumb wheel ("quick control dial") & joystick ("multi controller") combo I am not very happy. It is definitely too small to use it with thick gloves in winter. Everytime I try to turn the wheel with a glove, I touch the joystick - it is inevitable. This is no problem caused by the small body of the R7. If Canon would have placed a bigger thumb wheel right were now this Rebel (or Nikon) inspired toggle "wheel" sits and left the joystick where it is now, that layout would be much more suitable for wildlife shooting. Plus, it would be ergonomically more in line with the "classic" DSLR layout, so it would be easier for long-term Canon users to switch cameras. I really recommend Canon to return to such a more "classic" layout with the successor to the R7.

Another for me completely new problem appeared with the new off-on-video switch. Opposite to the EOS 7D2/5D4's switch it can be much easier turned on. That happened several times when I stoved the R7 attached to a big lens in the camera rucksack. Then, in the dark, its AF system tries to focus something and starts to pump endlessly, so the camera gets very hot and drains the battery quickly. I think a successor should get a less easily turning on-off switch.

 

[scyrene]

What I really cannot understand and forgive is the design of the rear lens cap, as it fits in just one position.
Changing lenses in the field has become much more fiddly and takes 3 times as long.

Amen!

 

[SnowMiku]

I've never had a problem with the On/Off switches on my DSLRs, I just turn on the camera at the start of my shoot and leave it on until it's time to put the camera back in my bag. The only camera I have to turn on/off constantly is the M5 because I always end up bumping a button turning on the OVF and draining the battery, if I end up bumping a button on the DSLRs then it's not a problem with battery life anyway.

 

[justaCanonuser]

Back to the article as a whole, perhaps Part 2 can cover the ergonomics (and lack thereof) of accessory battery grips.

thumbs up!

 

[David - Sydney]

What Canon/the article calls ergonomics, I call added cost when changing bodies.
Definitely a niche but underwater housing are specific to the button/ type of control for each item on the body. The 5Diii/5Div/5DSR were all essentially identical for controls that Ikelite provided. There was a very minor change for the depth of one button between 5Diii and 5Div which was simple to fix.

I truly hope that the R5 and R5ii have the exact same layout as it won't cost my another USD2k for a new housing. I won't be an early buyer of the R5ii (for this reason!) but once the second hand market pricing settles down and/or an insurance claim then an upgrade would certainly be on the cards. The second hand market for a used housing by itself is almost non-existent in Australia unless you sell a complete system which isn't worthwhile just for a body upgrade.

It will be substantially more expensive for those using milled aluminum housing eg Nauticam housing for R5 is USD4800! Noting that the more expensive housings will enable usage of the joystick and front DOF button that Ikelite doesn't. Clearly, the touch control on the R3/1DXiii isn't possible as well as touch screen and EVF switch from putting your face to the viewfinder (please enable the Rate button to be customised to allow this change!).

Even with the smaller bodies with (generally) less controls, the housing price is ~USD1300. More controls = higher price.

 

[EricN]

What Canon/the article calls ergonomics, I call added cost when changing bodies.
Definitely a niche but underwater housing are specific to the button/ type of control for each item on the body. The 5Diii/5Div/5DSR were all essentially identical for controls that Ikelite provided. There was a very minor change for the depth of one button between 5Diii and 5Div which was simple to fix.

I truly hope that the R5 and R5ii have the exact same layout as it won't cost my another USD2k for a new housing. I won't be an early buyer of the R5ii (for this reason!) but once the second hand market pricing settles down and/or an insurance claim then an upgrade would certainly be on the cards. The second hand market for a used housing by itself is almost non-existent in Australia unless you sell a complete system which isn't worthwhile just for a body upgrade.

It will be substantially more expensive for those using milled aluminum housing eg Nauticam housing for R5 is USD4800! Noting that the more expensive housings will enable usage of the joystick and front DOF button that Ikelite doesn't. Clearly, the touch control on the R3/1DXiii isn't possible as well as touch screen and EVF switch from putting your face to the viewfinder (please enable the Rate button to be customised to allow this change!).

Even with the smaller bodies with (generally) less controls, the housing price is ~USD1300. More controls = higher price.

This is a great point that i discovered when I looked into underwater housing.

I think it won't happen, but it could be nice if we could choose various components of our cameras and have them assembled at the factory or if we dare, at home. I could be happy enough with much fewer buttons and dials, but I understand other people would want more.
Even if Canon allowed Ikelite and similar companies to a body instead of a housing could save both companies and consumers some money, but it probably isn't viewed as any kind of priority for Canon at this point.

 

[David - Sydney]

This is a great point that i discovered when I looked into underwater housing.

I think it won't happen, but it could be nice if we could choose various components of our cameras and have them assembled at the factory or if we dare, at home. I could be happy enough with much fewer buttons and dials, but I understand other people would want more.
Even if Canon allowed Ikelite and similar companies to a body instead of a housing could save both companies and consumers some money, but it probably isn't viewed as any kind of priority for Canon at this point.

I concur that it wouldn't even be considered by Canon in their ergonomic design meetings.
At the end of the day, Ikelite et al sell more housings when a new body is released with adjusted controls.
Some surf housings have limited controls as their handling is mostly out of the water using pistol grips so can be reused more frequently.

That said, some hardware manufacturers do share physical design parameters to authorised 3rd party accessory companies in advance of release.

 

[JESPhoto]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I came to Canon's R7 from a Nikon D500. Since I had no "Canon muscle memory" I'm speaking from the perspective of having to learn a new system and layout.

As someone who had not used any Canon camera before, I found the R7 to be very user friendly and all the buttons and controls all right where I could easily get to them without removing my eye from the viewfinder frequently (if ever). It took several iterations of button customization to determine what functions I would use most frequently and what functions I was going to register to C1, C2, C3.

I find the "dreaded" wheel to be quite useful. I like having the aperture control on that wheel and the focus locator in the center. I rarely use it as a joystick other than press it to have the focus point return to center.

I probably could have gotten used to the other layouts too but I have found the R7 to be a layout that makes sense and it only took a few outings to become familiar with the buttons. If they change it significantly in the R7MkII I may be disappointed. Not sure as I would probably become familiar with that layout too.

Jeff
[edited to correct typo error]

 

[TwoWheeler]

I'm frustrated by how lens caps and lens marking work on the RF series. I've had to paint my caps with white lines to see where the marks are, and on some lenses the marks are hard to find.

You should also be able to look at the EVF and get a display that tells which pocket you put the lens cap in.

 

[AlanF]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I came to Canon's R7 from a Nikon D500. Since I had on "Canon muscle memory" I'm speaking from the perspective of having to learn a new system and layout.

As someone who had not used any Canon camera before, I found the R7 to be very user friendly and all the buttons and controls all right where I could easily get to them without removing my eye from the viewfinder frequently (if ever). It took several iterations of button customization to determine what functions I would use most frequently and what functions I was going to register to C1, C2, C3.

I find the "dreaded" wheel to be quite useful. I like having the aperture control on that wheel and the focus locator in the center. I rarely use it as a joystick other than press it to have the focus point return to center.

I probably could have gotten used to the other layouts too but I have found the R7 to be a layout that makes sense and it only took a few outings to become familiar with the buttons. If they change it significantly in the R7MkII I may be disappointed. Not sure as I would probably become familiar with that layout too.

Jeff

After the D500, any layout would be easy. And, I'm not joking.

 

[DhlcadR6]

Nikon layout is like a old Boeing aircraft...... Ergonomically ok but buttons everywhere.

Canon just fluctuates between a Tesla(Eos M200/R100), Hyundai/Kia(mid-range) and Toyota/Honda(mid to high end)

 

[AlanF]

Nikon layout is like a old Boeing aircraft...... Ergonomically ok but buttons everywhere.

Canon just fluctuates between a Tesla(Eos M200/R100), Hyundai/Kia(mid-range) and Toyota/Honda(mid to high end)

Yep, I remember having with the D500 to press one at the front with my forefinger and one at the back with my thumb simultaneously. There weren't enough buttons, the mode dials stored I think only two settings and they weren't "sticky" so that if you changed a setting on the fly it wouldn't recall the old. Same with the D850. But, the AF is so good as is the IQ.

 

[neuroanatomist]

…the mode dials stored I think only two settings and they weren't "sticky" so that if you changed a setting on the fly it wouldn't recall the old.

Was there a setting for that? I don’t recall on lower bodies, but I know on my R3 (and 1D X), I could choose to have the C# settings automatically re-register if a change was made, or have them “sticky”.