Canon EOS R5 Firmware v2.0.0 Released

[Kit.]

1) Randomly going in and out of auto ISO after FIVE YEARS of people complaining
R5 and R3 will repeatedly alter their ISO status after moments of inactivity during shooting.

Custom mode resets to its programmed default after camera turns off due to inactivity?

 

[pixel8foto]

Custom mode resets to its programmed default after camera turns off due to inactivity?

No, always on manual but yes, after inactivity.

 

[Dragon]

To clarify these issues:

1) Randomly going in and out of auto ISO after FIVE YEARS of people complaining
R5 and R3 will repeatedly alter their ISO status after moments of inactivity during shooting. This is particularly troublesome when using lights (but is troublesome in every other way too).
Eg having balanced the ISO at a specific level with whatever additional lighting you are using, the camera will remeter against your will after a pause in use. Suddenly an ISO set at 640, for instance, will increase to 26,500 as the camera overrides the user's selection and remeters for an unlit space.

2) Fix latching one-shot/AI focus switching
Prior to the r5, on every previous model that had the option to assign one-shot/AI servo switching to a button, when you programmed a switch (eg a front button) to switch between these focus modes, the action would be a temporary action, in effect only switching while you depressed the switch and reverting when you released it. With the r5, the action changed so that the button *latches* the mode change after each press. This has the undersirable effect of causing the focus mode to switch when straps or knocks or accidental taps against any surface hit the button, so the camera would often not be in the desired focus mode when it is lifted for use.

3) Or enable dialling in AUTO ISO below ISO 50.
With the camera to your eye, you cannot dial in to "AUTO ISO" using whichever wheel you've programmed to control the ISO. The path is 160>100>50 - then stop. If you take the camera from your eye, press the ISO option on the screen, the path is 160>100>50>AUTO, as it was in all Canon cameras before the mirrorless releases. The removal of the ability to dial in AUTO ISO without removing your eye from the viewfinder is unhelpful in that it requires the user to have to "detach" themselves from the tactile and immedaite process of taking a photograph, remove their eye from the subject and find the non-tactile buttons on screen to effect the ISO change, at worst missing the photograph, at best losing engagement.

Seems like some of your "issues" may be considered "features" by others, so the question is what feedback has Canon gotten.

 

[pixel8foto]

Seems like some of your "issues" may be considered "features" by others, so the question is what feedback has Canon gotten.

If these were user selectable options, or only applicable in the auto modes, you might describe them as features. But that isn't the case with these issues.

Bottom line is I need my cameras to do what I tell them to do, not the other way around.

 

[neuroanatomist]

No, always on manual but yes, after inactivity.

I haven’t noticed the settings changing randomly in M on my R3, they stay where I set them. Could be a settings-related bug.

 

[Dragon]

If these were user selectable options, or only applicable in the auto modes, you might describe them as features. But that isn't the case with these issues.

Bottom line is I need my cameras to do what I tell them to do, not the other way around.

For 1. If you actually put the camera in manual ISO mode, it will not change the ISO setting even after a power cycle. If you have it set to auto ISO and change the ISO with the front roller, that is only a "program" change for the immediate shot.

For 2. The camera is doing exactly what you told it to do (whether purposely or inadvertently). Most users would likely find the toggle to be an improvement.

For 3. See 1. Changing from fixed (manual) ISO to auto ISO changes the camera's program, so it may be more confusing than helpful to have it do what you want.

Bottom line, if you want the camera to do exactly what you tell it, buy a Leica. It will do what you tell it to do and nothing else. Of course you will lose all those automatic smarts that are in the R5. Enjoy.

 

[neuroanatomist]

To clarify these issues:

1) Randomly going in and out of auto ISO after FIVE YEARS of people complaining
R5 and R3 will repeatedly alter their ISO status after moments of inactivity during shooting. This is particularly troublesome when using lights (but is troublesome in every other way too).
Eg having balanced the ISO at a specific level with whatever additional lighting you are using, the camera will remeter against your will after a pause in use. Suddenly an ISO set at 640, for instance, will increase to 26,500 as the camera overrides the user's selection and remeters for an unlit space.

Thanks for clarifying. I have to say, I've never experienced this with my R3. If I manually set an ISO in M mode, it stays there for the mode until I change it. The C# modes I set up are Auto ISO, so they return there if I cycle away from them and back. But I can set, for example, ISO 1600 in M mode then cycle through the C# modes and back to M, and it's still at 1600. The camera can sleep and wake up, I can turn it off then back on a few days later. Still at 1600.

2) Fix latching one-shot/AI focus switching
Prior to the r5, on every previous model that had the option to assign one-shot/AI servo switching to a button, when you programmed a switch (eg a front button) to switch between these focus modes, the action would be a temporary action, in effect only switching while you depressed the switch and reverting when you released it. With the r5, the action changed so that the button *latches* the mode change after each press. This has the undersirable effect of causing the focus mode to switch when straps or knocks or accidental taps against any surface hit the button, so the camera would often not be in the desired focus mode when it is lifted for use.

3) Or enable dialling in AUTO ISO below ISO 50.
With the camera to your eye, you cannot dial in to "AUTO ISO" using whichever wheel you've programmed to control the ISO. The path is 160>100>50 - then stop. If you take the camera from your eye, press the ISO option on the screen, the path is 160>100>50>AUTO, as it was in all Canon cameras before the mirrorless releases. The removal of the ability to dial in AUTO ISO without removing your eye from the viewfinder is unhelpful in that it requires the user to have to "detach" themselves from the tactile and immedaite process of taking a photograph, remove their eye from the subject and find the non-tactile buttons on screen to effect the ISO change, at worst missing the photograph, at best losing engagement.

No experience with these last two. On cameras that have AI Focus, I don't use it (I prefer to decide if I have a moving subject, rather than letting the camera make that decision), and my primary cameras haven't had it for a dozen years (1D X and R3 have only One Shot and AI Servo). ISO 50 is an extended value, meaning it's just pulled from ISO 100 in-camera. If I need that, I'd be manually setting exposures anyway so I'll pull the RAW file down a stop in post.

 

[MichaelC]

Does the changing of the ISO happen after changing the custom function to prevent that from happening? My R5 and R3 do not change ISO once I changed the custom function to "Retain speed after metering"

1) Randomly going in and out of auto ISO after FIVE YEARS of people complaining
R5 and R3 will repeatedly alter their ISO status after moments of inactivity during shooting. This is particularly troublesome when using lights (but is troublesome in every other way too).
Eg having balanced the ISO at a specific level with whatever additional lighting you are using, the camera will remeter against your will after a pause in use. Suddenly an ISO set at 640, for instance, will increase to 26,500 as the camera overrides the user's selection and remeters for an unlit space.

 

[SnowMiku]

To clarify these issues:

1) Randomly going in and out of auto ISO after FIVE YEARS of people complaining
R5 and R3 will repeatedly alter their ISO status after moments of inactivity during shooting. This is particularly troublesome when using lights (but is troublesome in every other way too).
Eg having balanced the ISO at a specific level with whatever additional lighting you are using, the camera will remeter against your will after a pause in use. Suddenly an ISO set at 640, for instance, will increase to 26,500 as the camera overrides the user's selection and remeters for an unlit space.


3) Or enable dialling in AUTO ISO below ISO 50.
With the camera to your eye, you cannot dial in to "AUTO ISO" using whichever wheel you've programmed to control the ISO. The path is 160>100>50 - then stop. If you take the camera from your eye, press the ISO option on the screen, the path is 160>100>50>AUTO, as it was in all Canon cameras before the mirrorless releases. The removal of the ability to dial in AUTO ISO without removing your eye from the viewfinder is unhelpful in that it requires the user to have to "detach" themselves from the tactile and immedaite process of taking a photograph, remove their eye from the subject and find the non-tactile buttons on screen to effect the ISO change, at worst missing the photograph, at best losing engagement.

It sounds like the ISO safety switch option is turned on in the custom functions menu? Does the R5/R3 have the option to turn that off?

My DSLRs can fully control the ISO from Auto to the highest in the viewfinder. I'm not sure why they would remove that feature?

 

[David_B]

What anyone arguing today is missing with the EVF is ridiculous, the OVF is a dinosaur and absolute garbage to what we have today in the R3, R5 EVF's. Let them stay with 5 focus points in the middle of the screen and focus recompose for all I care. To argue you miss shots or blackout is honestly laughable

My problem with EVFs is simple: color. With an OVF the color I see through it is limited by the lens, mirror, and prism. With an EVF, the color I see is limited by the lens, the sensor, software/firmware, and then the ability of the EVF to reproduce that color. Is the EVF a HDR display? Not unless you have the R3. And so on. While the EVF may be excellent for some things, it will almost certainly be worse for some as well. This is just about the R3's OVF simulation:

Canon EOS R3's OVF Simulation: What it is and why it matters

Canon is the first company we've seen to take advantage of the greater dynamic range of OLED viewfinders. The EOS R3's OVF Simulation mode combines linear processing of scene light with the high dynamic range of its OLED EVF to create a more lifelike viewing experience similar to an optical finder.

www.dpreview.com

and only looks at brightness, not color accuracy. The implication is that the EVF in the R3 is better than the EVF in the R5 - which shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[AlanF]

My problem with EVFs is simple: color. With an OVF the color I see through it is limited by the lens, mirror, and prism. With an EVF, the color I see is limited by the lens, the sensor, software/firmware, and then the ability of the EVF to reproduce that color. Is the EVF a HDR display? Not unless you have the R3. And so on. While the EVF may be excellent for some things, it will almost certainly be worse for some as well. This is just about the R3's OVF simulation:

Canon EOS R3's OVF Simulation: What it is and why it matters

Canon is the first company we've seen to take advantage of the greater dynamic range of OLED viewfinders. The EOS R3's OVF Simulation mode combines linear processing of scene light with the high dynamic range of its OLED EVF to create a more lifelike viewing experience similar to an optical finder.

www.dpreview.com

and only looks at brightness, not color accuracy. The implication is that the EVF in the R3 is better than the EVF in the R5 - which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Thanks for the article which explains it. Am I right in thinking it doesn't show the brightness of the image on the sensor if you have set it to overexpose or underexpose, which I often do, but just a more accurate view of the classical OVF image which is divorced from your settings? If so, that is a step back for me.

 

[David_B]

Thanks for the article which explains it. Am I right in thinking it doesn't show the brightness of the image on the sensor if you have set it to overexpose or underexpose, which I often do, but just a more accurate view of the classical OVF image which is divorced from your settings? If so, that is a step back for me.

You'd have to ask someone with an R3 (I don't have one.)

 

[AlanF]

You'd have to ask someone with an R3 (I don't have one.)

My reading of that article is that it does over-ride your settings. But, I like to check with someone who has used features.

 

[koenkooi]

My reading of that article is that it does over-ride your settings. But, I like to check with someone who has used features.

Your R7 supports OVF simulation as well: https://cam.start.canon/en/C005/manual/html/UG-04_Shooting-1_0450.html

 

[David_B]

Your R7 supports OVF simulation as well: https://cam.start.canon/en/C005/manual/html/UG-04_Shooting-1_0450.html

If it it is in the R7, why haven't Canon introduced it for the R5?

 

[AlanF]

If it it is in the R7, why haven't Canon introduced it for the R5?

The R7 came out after the R5 and has several features that are on the R3 and haven't been implemented on the R5. It is claimed on one video from a Canon person that the R5 has an earlier version of the Digic X and it has been proposed that it doesn't have necessary features on it. However, I am sceptical about that without explicit details from Canon.

 

[David_B]

The R7 came out after the R5 and has several features that are on the R3 and haven't been implemented on the R5. It is claimed on one video from a Canon person that the R5 has an earlier version of the Digic X and it has been proposed that it doesn't have necessary features on it. However, I am sceptical about that without explicit details from Canon.

Someone that should know the answer said what the answer is but you don't want to believe them because you don't like it ... maybe you can put up a youtube video of your own about how Canon is deceiving us about the true potential of the R5? Call your channel "Alternate Canon Facts" or something like that and make sure to wear a MAGA hat in your video too!

 

[neuroanatomist]

My reading of that article is that it does over-ride your settings. But, I like to check with someone who has used features.

I came away with that impression as well, but it’s not the case. In OVF simulation mode, even though the ‘exposure simulation’ option is unavailable, the R3 essentially behaves as if exposure simulation is operating. If I manually dial in settings that would yield a black picture (e.g., 1/4000 s, f/16, ISO 100 with indoor lighting), I can see just fine in the EVF, but a shutter press yields the expected black image.

Similarly, in a scene with a bright patch moving the AF point (with evaluative metering) in and out of that patch changes the scene exposure similarly in both OVF simulation and exposure simulation. The DR of the scene is better represented with OVF sim.

For me, the real tradeoff with OVF sim is the loss of DoF simulation. I prefer seeing the final DoF over seeing more DR, so I leave OVF sim off. I’m not sure why Canon didn’t implement the combination (DSLRs have OVFs and a DoF Preview button).

 

[neuroanatomist]

Someone that should know the answer said what the answer is but you don't want to believe them because you don't like it ... maybe you can put up a youtube video of your own about how Canon is deceiving us about the true potential of the R5? Call your channel "Alternate Canon Facts" or something like that and make sure to wear a MAGA hat in your video too!

Maybe you can put up a YouTube video of your own about how to read carefully. You may not want to, since trying to teach others a skill you evidently lack will make you look like even more of an ass.

I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand (insert warthog reference if you like). @AlanF stated a Canon person said the R5 has an older type of processor (that’s the ‘brain’ of the camera). Someone else (not a Canon person, some random person posting on this forum or one like it) then said the R5 hasn’t gotten some R7 features because of its older camera brain. @AlanF is questioning the statement of a random person on the internet. There is no evidence that some random person on the internet ‘should know the answer’ about why R7 features haven’t been added to the R5. Canon has said nothing about that, and until they do, skepticism is reasonable and logical. Well, to people capable of reason and logic, though apparently not to you.

On a related note, there does not seem to be a hardware-based reason a camera like the R3 could not handle a feature like precapture. The R7 has it, so does the R6II. The M6II has it, and has a higher MP sensor, a smaller buffer, and Digic 8. Canon has chosen not to add precapture to the R3, but I’d bet good money it will be in the R1. No conspiracy theories or red hats are needed, just a rudimentary understanding of business principles (probably something else you lack).

 

[Dragon]

Maybe you can put up a YouTube video of your own about how to read carefully. You may not want to, since trying to teach others a skill you evidently lack will make you look like even more of an ass.

I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand (insert warthog reference if you like). @AlanF stated a Canon person said the R5 has an older type of processor (that’s the ‘brain’ of the camera). Someone else (not a Canon person, some random person posting on this forum or one like it) then said the R5 hasn’t gotten some R7 features because of its older camera brain. @AlanF is questioning the statement of a random person on the internet. There is no evidence that some random person on the internet ‘should know the answer’ about why R7 features haven’t been added to the R5. Canon has said nothing about that, and until they do, skepticism is reasonable and logical. Well, to people capable of reason and logic, though apparently not to you.

On a related note, there does not seem to be a hardware-based reason a camera like the R3 could not handle a feature like precapture. The R7 has it, so does the R6II. The M6II has it, and has a higher MP sensor, a smaller buffer, and Digic 8. Canon has chosen not to add precapture to the R3, but I’d bet good money it will be in the R1. No conspiracy theories or red hats are needed, just a rudimentary understanding of business principles (probably something else you lack).

Actually, those with red hats understand business far better than he does .