Nikon announces the Z 28-400mm F4-8 VR

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Oh, sorry, I frequently have the same problem, so I should have noticed...
No worries! As an example of my actual beliefs and experience, I tested the RF 14-35/4 at 14mm against the EF 11-24/4 at 14mm. The RF lens forces distortion correction in-camera (and requires it because at the wide end the corners are black and need the geometric correction to fill them). The EF lens at 14mm is at the transition from barrel to pincushion distortion and essentially needs no distortion correction at that focal length. What I found was that the RF lens after distortion correction was just as sharp in the corners as the EF lens, despite the latter needing no algorithmic correction and costing over 2x as much. As a bonus, the corrected RF lens delivers a FoV at 14mm that's equivalent to ~13.5mm on the EF lens.

So...those who bash a lens on the basis of it requiring distortion correction are making incorrect assumptions about the consequences of that correction, in large part because they're forgetting that all wide angle rectilinear lenses require distortion correction, and the corrections achievable optically with lens elements aren't inherently better than the corrections possible digitally. As you correctly state, the digital corrections offer the additional benefit of enabling the lens to be smaller and lighter (though not cheaper, because why would the manufacturer give up profit).

The RF 10-20/4 compared to the EF 11-24/4 is an excellent example of the size/weight reduction possible with the shorter flange distance combined with digital correction, and optical quality is not sacrificed to achieve those improvements (and for once, Canon actually charges less!!).
 
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We had so many issues with our Nikon gear, with several digital cameras, lenses from different years, that I can only comment on Nikon's products in a sarcastic way, in particular as an ex-Nikon user. Really, my Canon gear proved to be so much more reliable in particular tough and raw environments, when shooting wildlife, that this can't be just lucky incidence. I would wish Nikon that they get their quality issues better controlled, but I am skeptical. There is a solid reason why Canon products are often more expensive that Nikon's comparable products since about 10-15 years, before it was the opposite. Canon still makes at least all prosumer and pro cameras and lenses in Japan, not in Thailand.
Definitely, there is almost always a reason in price variation related to quality. It might not matter if we take pictures for a couple hours on the weekend, but most of the day almost everyday for years, it has become clear to me that Canon higher prices are not without reason. I feel sympathetic for the people that adamantly insist Canon is a greedy company taking advantage of customers, not because I agree, but they are too closed minded to understand reality.

I think I read one of Nikon's Thai factories had closed, but it was a while ago and I might be mistaken.
 
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You are such an optimist...
I have been this way fairly often for most of my life. I can't remember how old I was, but maybe 6 years old, I learned about the concept of World Peace. That Christmas, I sat in a Santa Claus's lap and answered the question Santa Claus must ask , "I want World Peace for Christmas, Santa!"
 
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AlanF

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Definitely, there is almost always a reason in price variation related to quality. It might not matter if we take pictures for a couple hours on the weekend, but most of the day almost everyday for years, it has become clear to me that Canon higher prices are not without reason. I feel sympathetic for the people that adamantly insist Canon is a greedy company taking advantage of customers, not because I agree, but they are too closed minded to understand reality.

I think I read one of Nikon's Thai factories had closed, but it was a while ago and I might be mistaken.
Canon charges for example $1899 free of tax in the USA for the RF 200-800mm and the UK price before tax £1915, = $2418 or +27%. In Germany, I think the equivalent is about $2240, or +21%. The list of similar price differentials goes on and on, and I can buy many Canon bodies and lenses 30% cheaper on the grey market. Sony and Nikon do not have the same huge price differentials. Isn't that evidence for Canon's greed and taking advantage of customers?
 
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Del Paso

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Canon charges for example $1899 free of tax in the USA for the RF 200-800mm and the UK price before tax £1915, = $2418 or +27%. In Germany, I think the equivalent is about $2240, or +21%. The list of similar price differentials goes on and on, and I can buy many Canon bodies and lenses 30% cheaper on the grey market. Sony and Nikon do not have the same huge price differentials. Isn't that evidence for Canon's greed and taking advantage of customers?
No, it's an evidence of a much more stringent quality process for European versions. The ones produced for the British market undergo an even more demanding process. Goddess Kwanon only means our best. US customers get cheap second choice.
PS: I do not deserve the best, so I'll order a "grey" body next time...
 
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AlanF

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No, it's an evidence of a much more stringent quality process for European versions. The ones produced for the British market undergo an even more demanding process. Goddess Kwanon only means our best. US customers get cheap second choice.
PS: I do not deserve the best, so I'll order a "grey" body next time...
The rubber of the eyepiece for my R7 fell off after about two months, and Canon UK tried to argue their warranty doesn't cover accessories, and an eyepiece was an accessory. I had to explain to them that the eyepiece of the R7 is actually screwed on and not detachable, and in any case even it was an accessory it is still guaranteed for 2 years, which is longer than 2 months. Canon are b*st*rds who make some good gear.
 
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Canon charges for example $1899 free of tax in the USA for the RF 200-800mm and the UK price before tax £1915, = $2418 or +27%. In Germany, I think the equivalent is about $2240, or +21%. The list of similar price differentials goes on and on, and I can buy many Canon bodies and lenses 30% cheaper on the grey market. Sony and Nikon do not have the same huge price differentials. Isn't that evidence for Canon's greed and taking advantage of customers?
I think the answer is "both yes and no." I say "no" because as I understand it, each market is operated separately. We will have to say specifically, "Canon Uk and Canon Germany are greedy," which is where I say, "yes." I have never seen anything regarding reasons why they price higher for certain markets and lower for others, and yes, I feel sympathetic for you in the UK and @justaCanonuser in Germany.

Generally the people saying greedy aren't refusing to this topic, it is something like, "the stm lens is too cheap looking for the price!" maybe "the EF50 1.8 stm is $50 lest than the RF version!" "Canon is forcing us to buy overpriced RF L lenses because nobody will use an ef lens with adapter. Brand X has another lens that is better (usually spec wise) for less money"

Does my answer make sense?
 
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The rubber of the eyepiece for my R7 fell off after about two months, and Canon UK tried to argue their warranty doesn't cover accessories, and an eyepiece was an accessory. I had to explain to them that the eyepiece of the R7 is actually screwed on and not detachable, and in any case even it was an accessory it is still guaranteed for 2 years, which is longer than 2 months. Canon are b*st*rds who make some good gear.
That really sucks! Where you able to resolve it?
On the bright side, I think the mirror didn't fall off your R5...
 
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AlanF

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I think the answer is "both yes and no." I say "no" because as I understand it, each market is operated separately. We will have to say specifically, "Canon Uk and Canon Germany are greedy," which is where I say, "yes." I have never seen anything regarding reasons why they price higher for certain markets and lower for others, and yes, I feel sympathetic for you in the UK and @justaCanonuser in Germany.

Generally the people saying greedy aren't refusing to this topic, it is something like, "the stm lens is too cheap looking for the price!" maybe "the EF50 1.8 stm is $50 lest than the RF version!" "Canon is forcing us to buy overpriced RF L lenses because nobody will use an ef lens with adapter. Brand X has another lens that is better (usually spec wise) for less money"

Does my answer make sense?
Yes, it makes sense. German and UK prices are decided by Canon EU, based in the Netherlands, I think. They charge what they think the market will bear.
 
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AlanF

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That really sucks! Where you able to resolve it?
On the bright side, I think the mirror didn't fall off your R5...
From: CUK-Canon Professional Services UK
Sent: 17 February 2023 15:53
To:
Subject: Re: Request for rubber around eyecup of EOS R7
Hello Alan,
I have requested our spare team to order one, a gesture of goodwill on this occasion.
We should receive it before end of next week and I will then post it to your address (stated on your purchase receipt).
Thank you
Hebe


That's the Canon philosophy of goodwill, being generous with an item that must cost about a £/$/€ or 2.
 
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justaCanonuser

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The RF 10-20/4 compared to the EF 11-24/4 is an excellent example of the size/weight reduction possible with the shorter flange distance combined with digital correction, and optical quality is not sacrificed to achieve those improvements (and for once, Canon actually charges less!!).
I am with youl. In particular for wide-angle lenses, the shorter flange distance of the RF system allows for much better corrected optics. Interestingly the RF zoom has 16 lenses in 12 groups, the EF lens 16 lenses in 11 groups, so the RF zoom isn't less complex.

For me, tele lenses are more important, but I have a Zeiss 18mm f/3.5 prime for the EF mount. Zeiss tried to correct its distortions optically with a lot of effort, with the result of a funny moustache distortion characteristics. So this is a great lens for many settings, but if one shoots architecture with it dominant horizontal structures, these images really need post-processing.
 
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From: CUK-Canon Professional Services UK
Sent: 17 February 2023 15:53
To:
Subject: Re: Request for rubber around eyecup of EOS R7
Hello Alan,
I have requested our spare team to order one, a gesture of goodwill on this occasion.
We should receive it before end of next week and I will then post it to your address (stated on your purchase receipt).
Thank you
Hebe


That's the Canon philosophy of goodwill, being generous with an item that must cost about a £/$/€ or 2.
I have a feeling Hebe would have know it was, at best, a condescending way to write:confused:
If you add an extra "C" and "OLD" to "CUK," it could explain his attitude... :sneaky:
 
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justaCanonuser

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The rubber of the eyepiece for my R7 fell off after about two months, and Canon UK tried to argue their warranty doesn't cover accessories, and an eyepiece was an accessory. I had to explain to them that the eyepiece of the R7 is actually screwed on and not detachable, and in any case even it was an accessory it is still guaranteed for 2 years, which is longer than 2 months. Canon are b*st*rds who make some good gear.
Oh no, we had this problem with several APS-C DSLRs from Nikon, so I bought a set of replacement eyepieces. With my R7 I have no issues so far, despite I really do not caress my gear. But the eyepiece of my copy stucks really tight on the camera. I know that because I have to always have to press it in my rucksack when the 500mm lens is attached, and the pressure hits the most protruding part of the camera - the eyepiece. So I wish you luck with the new part, hopefully it doesn't fall off that easily again.
 
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justaCanonuser

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Definitely, there is almost always a reason in price variation related to quality. It might not matter if we take pictures for a couple hours on the weekend, but most of the day almost everyday for years, it has become clear to me that Canon higher prices are not without reason.
Yes, mechanical quality counts in particular when you shoot in the wilderness, as we do. I still use frequently an EF 500mm f/4.5 lens from 1995, simply because this lens has grown to be like an extension of my body (I shoot it mostly hand-held). It is a really battered club but optically it still is a very good lens, and in particular with the R7 it performs surprisingly well. I used it even in sand storms mixed with salt water spray on shores, and it never let me down. In fact, since I switched from Nikon to Canon I had only had one repair with my original 7D. With our Nikon gear we had several quite costly issues, died AF motors, stuck mirror mechanics, buttons that stopped working after a few rain drops on the camera. It is quite unlikely that just by accident we bought one non-reliable Nikon product after another over many years.
 
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justaCanonuser

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Canon charges for example $1899 free of tax in the USA for the RF 200-800mm and the UK price before tax £1915, = $2418 or +27%. In Germany, I think the equivalent is about $2240, or +21%. The list of similar price differentials goes on and on, and I can buy many Canon bodies and lenses 30% cheaper on the grey market. Sony and Nikon do not have the same huge price differentials. Isn't that evidence for Canon's greed and taking advantage of customers?
In Germany it is announced for 2499,00 €, so prices are even higher. If you don't buy it elsewhere on the grey market and risk to have no guarantee, you have to pay that price - or wait until the prices drop.
 
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koenkooi

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In Germany it is announced for 2499,00 €, so prices are even higher. If you don't buy it elsewhere on the grey market and risk to have no guarantee, you have to pay that price - or wait until the prices drop.
Strangely enough Panamoz lists the 200-800 for €2550, which is €50 more than the local shops. Nowhere in stock, though.
 

Del Paso

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From: CUK-Canon Professional Services UK
Sent: 17 February 2023 15:53
To:
Subject: Re: Request for rubber around eyecup of EOS R7
Hello Alan,
I have requested our spare team to order one, a gesture of goodwill on this occasion.
We should receive it before end of next week and I will then post it to your address (stated on your purchase receipt).
Thank you
Hebe


That's the Canon philosophy of goodwill, being generous with an item that must cost about a £/$/€ or 2.
And generously offering goodwill instead of respecting their very own warranty engagements. :mad:
 
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Del Paso

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Strangely enough Panamoz lists the 200-800 for €2550, which is €50 more than the local shops. Nowhere in stock, though.
Sometimes, Panamoz has a strange pricing for mostly brand-new products.
Yet, 90% of their prices are lower than those for officially imported items. And their warranty conditions sound excellent. Their internet reviews too.
FNAC France, Calumet Germany EOS R3: Euro 5700
Panamoz (including taxes and duties): Euro 4400
Or, a naked R3 vs. R3 + RF 100 macro + adapter EF-RF
No comment!
 
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