The Sad Truth About Canon's Future?

[EricN]

But the option is about 2000€ more, if you want to go to canon and have that 24mm. Which is simply often not affordable for any beginner.
Even if you need the 24mm, the Sony GM 24-70 2,8 is roughly 1000€ cheaper than the canon RF 24-70 2,8. Which may be a bit better, but its still a 1000€ gap, that is hardy justified for a beginner. The Tamron 24-70 f 2,8 for e-mount is even 1400€ cheaper.

In USA, Canon's 24-70 f/2.8 is cheaper than Sony's by $100

Edit: My mistake, the Canon is on sale right now.

 

[Quack]

...

So I think in general my idea still stands: thanks to third party and wide lense compatibility, Sony does have an edge over canon, when it comes to offerings for beginners in the fullframe market. Which may get more important in the future.

Beginners are apparently smarter than you and understand that Canon has an excellent number of FF lens offerings for beginners. Tons of used EF lenses available and being bought by beginners, including pro quality L lenses that would have been beyond a beginner's budget years ago, if Facebook groups are any indication. The Rf 100-400 is arguably the best telephoto lens for the money that is available from any brand and great for beginners. As I always say, use the brand you want, enjoy the brand you want. But Sony propaganda is not going to be ignored. I think I speak for most Canon users when I say that we've heard enough Sony bullcrap over the years. We prefer the bullcrap stop.

 

[CJaurelius]

From my limited experience, I would consider a beginner that wants an f/2.8 zoom a rarity. I personally don't recall ever seeing one.

I can understand this mentality looking at the past but things change. Sure when I bought my first DSLR 20 years ago it had a kit lens zoom and I had no idea what f/2.8 was. But I also didn't have a smartphone with 3 lenses and an f/1.8 in my pocket. The smartphones are now advertising low f stop values and have a portait mode to fake even lower f stop values.

Nowadays if you go on Youtube and look up reviews for cameras (where most beginners are going to start today), pretty much all the reviewers are recommending specifally to get a f/2.8 if they want to get something that looks much better than your phone. There are countless videos of "insert your favorite camera here" vs Iphone "insert latest model number here".

Sony recently released a lower cost 16-25 f/2.8 and 24-50 f/2.8 at around $1100 specifically for this reason as most beginners see the traditional 16-35 f/2.8 and 24-70 f/2.8 at $2,300 as complete out of reach.

So now a beginner who can't afford a 24-70 Gmaster II can get a 24-50 f/2.8 that has better optics than Sony's first Gmaster, looks almost identical (except much smaller), include the new features like aperature ring that can be declicked for video for slightly more than a third party lens.

They didn't create these more affordable lenses to undercut the sales of the tradtional 24-70 Gmaster. They know there is a huge market for beginners and they want to get them into their ecosystem early.

 

[CJaurelius]

Beginners are apparently smarter than you and understand that Canon has an excellent number of FF lens offerings for beginners. Tons of used EF lenses available and being bought by beginners, including pro quality L lenses that would have been beyond a beginner's budget years ago, if Facebook groups are any indication. The Rf 100-400 is arguably the best telephoto lens for the money that is available from any brand and great for beginners. As I always say, use the brand you want, enjoy the brand you want. But Sony propaganda is not going to be ignored. I think I speak for most Canon users when I say that we've heard enough Sony bullcrap over the years. We prefer the bullcrap stop.

This highlights the different in mentality as well. Young people aren't on facebook anymore.

https://sproutsocial.com/insights/new-social-media-demographics/

• The platform’s (facebook) usage among 13-17-year-olds stands at a sordid 4.8%, suggesting that it’s not the best place to target a younger audience.

And Youtube is essentially the most popular of them all with about 93% of Americans using Youtube vs 67% of Americans using facebook.

I think that is the big disconnect with some of the views on this forum. The fact that we're on this forum means most of us are older as young people don't use forums. So a group of older mostly Canon users aren't really going to identify with the newer trends. Heck I haven't heard any new good music for at least a decade .

Sony, propaganda or not, is going to where the younger audience is and trying to address their needs. These people are trying to be the next Youtuber or Tik Tok sensation. They want images and vidos that stand out from smartphone footage. For example gimbals have risen in populatiy. Sony realeased dynamic active stabilization where the camera crops in but gives you smooth footage without the need for the gimal. Then they just sell more wide angle leses to compensate for the crop.

So now you can buy the ZV-E1, a full frame smaller version of the A7sIII ($3400) now for $1900, put the 16-25 f/2.8 on it for $1100 and you've got a budget video set up at $3,000 with similar quality of what a pro would spend over $6,000 on in an A7SIII, 16-35 Gmaster and DJI gimbal.

And this isn't just Sony. One of the hottest cameras is the DJI Osmo Pocket 3. It's essentially a camera with a 1" senser so it'll have better quality than a smartphone but has a built in gimbal, connects wirelessly to DJI mics, easily records vertical video and still fits in your pocket. Its hitting the market that Canon was trying to with the V10. On the Sony side it competes with the ZV-1 and it is clearly a better product and shows that DJI is currently out thinking Sony in this regard. Just a year ago I would never have thought that DJI would be able to make a better 1" sensor camera than Sony. It's not hard to imagine DJI could make a "pro" version of this and move up the chain and eat away Sony's apsc cameras geared toward this like the ZV-E10.

In 10 years I could see Sony/Canon fighting off DJI more than each other.

 

[Quack]

This highlights the different in mentality as well. Young people aren't on facebook anymore.

https://sproutsocial.com/insights/new-social-media-demographics/



And Youtube is essentially the most popular of them all with about 93% of Americans using Youtube vs 67% of Americans using facebook.

I think that is the big disconnect with some of the views on this forum. The fact that we're on this forum means most of us are older as young people don't use forums. So a group of older mostly Canon users aren't really going to identify with the newer trends. Heck I haven't heard any new good music for at least a decade .

Sony, propaganda or not, is going to where the younger audience is and trying to address their needs. These people are trying to be the next Youtuber or Tik Tok sensation. They want images and vidos that stand out from smartphone footage. For example gimbals have risen in populatiy. Sony realeased dynamic active stabilization where the camera crops in but gives you smooth footage without the need for the gimal. Then they just sell more wide angle leses to compensate for the crop.

So now you can buy the ZV-E1, a full frame smaller version of the A7sIII ($3400) now for $1900, put the 16-25 f/2.8 on it for $1100 and you've got a budget video set up at $3,000 with similar quality of what a pro would spend over $6,000 on in an A7SIII, 16-35 Gmaster and DJI gimbal.

And this isn't just Sony. One of the hottest cameras is the DJI Osmo Pocket 3. It's essentially a camera with a 1" senser so it'll have better quality than a smartphone but has a built in gimbal, connects wirelessly to DJI mics, easily records vertical video and still fits in your pocket. Its hitting the market that Canon was trying to with the V10. On the Sony side it competes with the ZV-1 and it is clearly a better product and shows that DJI is currently out thinking Sony in this regard. Just a year ago I would never have thought that DJI would be able to make a better 1" sensor camera than Sony. It's not hard to imagine DJI could make a "pro" version of this and move up the chain and eat away Sony's apsc cameras geared toward this like the ZV-E10.

In 10 years I could see Sony/Canon fighting off DJI more than each other.

All you say is no doubt accurate and has pretty much nothing to do with what I am talking about. People, including the Sony supporters, constantly point out that Sony has a much bigger lens selection than Canon for their mirrorless cameras, and therefore recommend Sony to those just starting out. I point out that this is baloney, since all the Canon EF lenses are available and should be considered part of the possible lens selection for Canon RF mount cameras. The fact that 13-17 year olds aren't on Facebook seems quite irrelevant as I doubt many teens in that age bracket are buying cameras and lenses. And, yes, I agree that Facebook may not be representative of the demographic for new camera buyers, but that is also irrelevant. I am not arguing about who will win the market, merely pointing out that anyone who says that Sony has a much bigger lens selection for beginner mirrorless camera ownerss, is incorrect. And that many people are indeed buying EF and EF-S lenses for their Canon RF mount cameras.

 

[Kit.]

I can understand this mentality looking at the past but things change. Sure when I bought my first DSLR 20 years ago it had a kit lens zoom and I had no idea what f/2.8 was. But I also didn't have a smartphone with 3 lenses and an f/1.8 in my pocket. The smartphones are now advertising low f stop values and have a portait mode to fake even lower f stop values.

At least two things haven't changed since then: the notion of being good enough for the job and the desire of telemarketers to sell stuff people don't really need.

Nowadays if you go on Youtube and look up reviews for cameras (where most beginners are going to start today), pretty much all the reviewers are recommending specifally

But at least one thing has changed: now telemarketers are able to specifically target their victims based on the victim's search and view history.