Canon EOS Rumors

7D Previews

Craig
Craig
400 Comments
1 Min Read

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Everyone has one…..
…..Except me!

By request, here's a list of 7D previews as I find them.

DPReview
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/0909…..

Rob Galbraith
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_pag…..

Gizmodo
http://gizmodo.com/5349829/canon-7d-dslr…..

Imaging Resource
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DA.HTM

Digital Camera Info
http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Canon-Unv…..

Mac Create
http://maccreate.com/featured/hands-on-with-the-canon-7d

Preorder from Amazon
If you want to support Canon Rumors, you can preorder the 7D and new lenses using one of the links on the right. Thanks!

I'll have the new PriceWatch page up sometime this evening, currently on the road.

cr

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ByCraig
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Craig is the founder and editorial director for Canon Rumors. He has been writing about all things Canon for more than 17 years. When he's not writing, you can find him shooting professional basketball and travelling the world looking for the next wildlife adventure. The Canon EOS R1 is his camera of choice.
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400 Comments

  • RipOff Britain Again.

    7D: Amazon US $1699 USD JACOBS UK 1699 GBP (Should be 1050)

    BTW 5D MKII is 1920 GBP in the same store

  • On the other hand, after the 7D, all the other APS-C cameras don’t seem interesting to me anymore. Wonder why… ;)

  • “Everyone has one…..

    …..Except me!”

    Now, why do you think that is? Because they would not trust you to keep your pie hole shut. :)

    (And thats why we love you!)

  • I feel the same way about cropped cameras since I finally got back to full frame. I know people have their uses for them and think they’re great, but they’re just not for me.

  • 1550 on Digiwowo… I guess we still can find at this price in other DE shops… Still it’s too expensive compared to the US!

  • With this 7D producing 24p etc. video, is there hope for a firmware update to our beloved 5dMkII?

    I’ll be more than a little pissed off if they’ve updated a lower-end camera and ignored their pro demographic…

  • Once it was established that the 7D wasn’t going to be full-frame, I put in an order for a 5D Mk II.

  • I just want the 50d price to drop but i don’t think it will since the 7d is not really a replacement for it. How much was the 50d when it came out.
    WILL THE 50D drop in price

  • From what I have seen it is better than the 50d at high iso and not as good as the 5d mkii. Given the price differences this should be expected. I think it is a great camera for the money an it’s unfair to criticise it because it’s perceived pic quality is not as good as a FF at high iso’s. Apples and oranges. The cameras both serve different purposes. If the 7d was equal to the 5d mkii in image quality, why on earth would anyone ever buy a 5d mkii? Especially giveN the price difference.

  • Sounds good but will wait for more reviews and charts. I guess we could not get a FF cam for that kind of price anyway.

    My only big disappointment so far is that they did not add a dual card memory slot for 7D. I know what all the die-hard CF fans say, but haveing a pre-historic CF design or a microdrive (!) as my only option for a brand new cam is kinda lame. I can get a dirt cheap SDHC at a gas station in the middle of nowhere and keep on shooting. Can’t even find these microdrives anywhere in stock. This is my only major concern so far…

    Will see how the retail version will test in terms of DR, AF and low light noise. Everything else looks good so far….

  • Seems like a really good camera. I CANNOT believe Canon ignored the demand and kept the AEB at 3 shots. :-( Very disappointed there.

  • Yeah, they also think photographers around the world were affraid of getting a better quality full frame sensor!

    I know I was waking up in the middle of the night affraid and screaming “NO, Canon, don’t make the 7D a full frame camera! I hate better quality photos! Please, Canon, don’t replace my cropped smaller lower quality sensor! I’m so affraid!” What a relief now that it’s APS-C.

  • Yes, you can’t have one because you can’t keep a secret. Thanks for all your hard work! This was a great release.

  • not to mention they think photographers are affraid of full frame sensors too, lol, kinda hard to take them seriously with brilliance like that.

  • Price comparisons :

    The prices announced for the 7D in US dollar terms are :

    America 1699

    United Kingdom 2738

    Europe 2835

    The tax rates aren’t the same for each country so I calculated the tax free prices (I’m not sure of the US sales tax rate but I looked up New York and it seems to be 8.375%, its 15% in the UK and 19.6% here in France). The tax free prices are :

    America 1557

    United Kingdom 2327

    France 2279

    So the British are paying 50% more than the Americans and the French 46% more. How can this be justified ?

  • I doubt you’ll regret it. Even with all the flaws (focusing could be better/faster/more points, huge file sizes, lack of 24/25 fps, relatively slow shots per second) I love it, it’s allowed me to push low-light work further than ever before and really hone in on what I want to take photos of. You just push the button and art comes out, I can only assume that the 7D and it’s ilk will be similar.

  • Thanks for that, I hadn’t realised the American price at 1699 is before tax. The corrected comparisons are UK 37% more and France 34% more.

  • I would like to know if you think this camera would be too difficult to use as a 1st DSLR camera? I am hesitating with the 50D.

    Thank you.

  • I have no idea why you guys have to pay so much :(

    But if it’s any consolation, try buying any electronics in Latin America…

    (oh, and our salaries are like 5X lower)

  • Although Canon has rolled out some interesting new tech with the 7D, I think they are missing the point with this Camera. Who needs 18MP when you are shooting at 8FPS. If you are shooting that many frames in a row killer low light performance would be really nice to have since you are obviously trying to freeze action. I guess if this body were full frame then they would be infringing on future 1DMKIV territory. Clearly with this model Canon is offering camera that marketers and the business folks want and forgot to ask the photographers. Its a body meant to capitalize on the lower cost and higher margin EF-S lenses and all of the cost saving building a camera around these lenses provides. They are missing the boat with someone like me that wants pro body features without all of the durability requirements and high cost, but necessary if you are a pro, accessories associated with a 1 series body. C’mon Canon, make a $2000 16MP camera that does 5fps with good auto focus, 6400 ISO and some weather sealing. That would be a 5 year old trick Canon.

  • There’s always hope, but from what I have heard in the past the camera is 30 fps based on the hardware inside (not my words, Canon’s, so take with the typical grain of salt). There have been rumors abound about 24p firmware on various film shoots, but I wouldn’t buy a 5DII expecting specifically to shoot 24 fps just yet.

  • 18MP (if clean) would give some flexibility when it comes to cropping. That’s about the only argument I can make in favour of it.

  • Microdrive? Why bother? I have 8gb CF cards, microdrives top out at what, 4? And are slower as well. CF is just as available as SD these days and it’s all so cheap that you should just buy more than you think you’ll need for your trip in the first place.

  • Oh, and I agree with most of what you said, but for a speed-demon type camera (which this is trying to be) 5fps isn’t enough.

  • Or just don’t buy the camera. CF, SD, what’s the difference? You’re just going to put it in a reader in the end anyway.

  • I don’t understand why it also doesn’t take my floppy discs. Now there’s a storage medium that lasts!

  • Sony use to have a digital camera back in the day that took the big computer hard disks. Yeah, store like 2 pics per disk….. hehe…

  • Looks pretty good, although I think its rep as a D300 killer is overstated. D300 is as fast (with the grip) and performs better in low light from the looks of the posted samples. That’s without the results of serious per pixel sharpness testing. If the sharpness is there, then the ISO performance is probably a veritable tie as the 18mp will hide the noise when viewed at the same size as a 12mp D300. But from the looks of the samples, that’s not going to be the case, 7d will be better than 50D, but not quite D300 per pixel, and nowhere near D700 at high ISO. Lastly, D300 is tougher, better sealed, and despite the advances of the 7D, still probably has a marginally better meter/AF.

    I’m just shocked that Canon didn’t make a 14 MP version of this camera. I think that would have been a stronger offering. Still more MP than D300, probably another 8 shots for the scrawny RAW buffer, and no high MP APS-C stigma to cut into sales. No matter what the results on this camera are, Canon will have to work very hard to dispel the notion that 13MP is the upper IQ limit for APS-C, a bit of conventional wisdom made ubiquitous by the 50D. It seems doubly strange because G11 seems to reinforce that perception.

    However all the gripes aside, Canon did the right thing by finally producing a feature rich prosumer body. Let’s hope the IQ is good enough to take advantage of the AF and meter. Because Christmas is right around the corner.

  • Watch both movies of the canon.jp marketing site:
    http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/

    I know this is close to what we get to a 5Dmk2, i know they are pros/semi-pros (semi because of some slight focussing issues here and there :p), have access to a shipload of lenses, took the time to write a scenario, cut it into scenes, add music etc

    But, I’m dying for this cam, didn’t want to go FF because of my lenses
    Here is the ultimate answer, the 7D =)

    Another month of waiting before availability :(

    1545€ @ http://www.digitalwonderworld.de, i suppose preorder, no date given
    did anyone find a better price in europe yet?

  • Just get an SD to CF converter on eBay or wherever you can find them. They’re not bad, I got one recently since I had a ton of SD/MicroSD cards lying around not getting used.

  • I hear you man… living in Chile, where minimum wage is 350 bucks a month, a camera like this is expeeeeeeeeensive

  • And what about going out and taking pictures ?

    You guies really waste too much in time in front of the computer and on CR forum ! and not enough taking pictures.

  • Guys, should I sell my good old 5D for this APS-C?
    I got 5DII and that 5D is my back up,
    Sell it for $1,000 and pay just $700 more for newer tech, (maybe) higher ISO IQ, and flash control?

  • Look like a nice camera.. i would like the new flash metering system and the level. The high iso files are decent for 18 mp….. but they are still pretty harsh looking.

    Too bad canon did go the way of the G11…. but it is still a nice addition to the lineup.

    LET THE 7d2 rumors begin!!!!!!!
    %Pr

  • The point may have been that some people were concerned that the “prosumer” line of APS-C cameras was in danger of being cancelled. This would mean that people wanting to upgrade from a rebel would have to look at a FF camera around 3 times the price of the rebels.

    The lesson, I think, is that no manufacturer is going to leave a huge price gap between lines, especially in the most consumer-dense price ranges – it doesn’t make good business sense. For that reason I think there will be a genuine replacement of the 50D to fill the gap between the 500D and the 7D. It would be nice if this camera were aimed at the K-7/D90/E-30 lines, with a more compact but high quality body around 5-6fps.

    Of course, one could successfully argue there is still a price gap above the 7D that needs to be filled… With a new competitor (Sony a850) in this price bracket, it would only make sense for this camera to be full frame.

  • After seeing full-sized samples from the 7D, full frame is also beginning to interest me. With the 7D you get tons of great features, but it becomes clear that even with the best lenses a limit is being approached in the IQ department. The question becomes, how much would you pay for a full-featured DSLR with limited IQ vs. a low-featured DSLR with the capacity for greater IQ?

  • They did it to avoid losing marketshare in pro crop body. guess what all the ‘new features” of 7d were introduced 2 years ago in aug 2007 in a body called D300.

  • So if you are in my shoes, I want to upgrade from an XTI which way to go 50d 7D 5Dmkii decisions decisions……..

  • How about cost of running business in UK and Europe ? How about salaries of employees in UK and Europe? are they stay same as in US ? US doesn’t have free health care. Europeans get liberal social assistance from govt.

    Products can be priced same only if cost of running the business and volume stays the same

  • “The Canon 7D also goes a long way toward tempering fears that the next round of Canon digital SLRs would be full-frame”

    I don’t know what planet that makes any sense on. I don’t recall any fears being expressed about Canon cancelling any consumer or prosumer cameras. The only fears I saw was about excessive noise if it was APS-C – exactly the opposite of people fearing full frame at a lower price.

    Yes, I agree there is still a price gap and room for a low price FF, but how would they do that marketing-wise without messing up the odd numbers and put something between 5D and 7D?

  • FF will always best crop sensors. I plan the 7D to add as 2nd camera for the 5D2; sports, wildlife and a 2nd video DSLR. Although, depending on what they do with the 1D4, I may go with that.

  • Pushing price aside (which I’m guessing you are for not including rebels), all of these cameras have fairly the same learning curve. Unless you really think you would be using the preset modes (ie, everything automatic all the time) this camera is similar to anything in the line up. It will only be a matter of weeks before you are using Aperture Priority mode and beyond.

  • Unfortunately, it seems to take canon some time to address the competition, but I wouldn’t worry too much about a ~$2k FF – it will come sometime in the next couple years. Thank Sony for that.

  • It depends on you. What sort of photography do you do? You’re talking about two very different cameras which could be considered tools.

    Would you use a wrench to hammer in a nail?

  • After looking at a lot of these samples, I’m thinking about canceling my Amazon pre-order. Many of them are either completely out of focus of have unacceptable levels of soft focus. The noise is bad, if I’m paying $2000 for a crop sensor I better be able to use iso 1600 no problem, the 7D doesn’t look like it’s gonna be that camera. I guess I either need to bite the bullet and get a D700 or wait for Canon’s answer to that.

  • If you want to photograph sports or things at a distance the 5Dii is not the ideal tool. Now if you want low light, indoor, landscape, weddings, etc. go 5dii. 5Dii is too slow to effectively shoot fast moving sports.

  • It could encode video at whatever rate the Digic processor encodes it at, hard limited only by the processing power. Assuming 1080 30p is the upper limit of the processing power, and assuming the Digic 4 processor is programmed to encode at different rates like 30p/25p/24p or 720 60p it would just be a firmware patch to get the settings on the menu. Obviously the Dual Digic 4 on the 7D is programmed to encode at different rates, hopefully the Digic 4 processor in the 5D2 is as well and they just have to finish the firmware.

  • quote : “The Canon 7D also goes a long way toward tempering fears that the next round of Canon digital SLRs would be full-frame”.

    ROTfF

  • get the 7d…. and stay the hell out of automatic mode. Hell…stay in M if you can. You will learn much faster and be much more competent.

    Also… start with a 35 f/2 prime lens…. it will help you composition. (i would recommend a 50 1.4/1.8 but that is kinda long for croPr

  • My concern is more that Canon seem intent on advancing the pixel count of the APS-C line while simply trying to maintain other aspects of image quality (noise, dynamic range). Now that the sensor clearly outresolves most lenses I would prefer that they cool it with the pixels and focus on improving these other areas of IQ.

  • Cool, I’ll take your camera. Poor you…. From what I’ve seen it’s better than the 40d & 50d. Not as good as the 5d Mii, which is expected given the price and specs.

    Completely out of focus? What samples are you looking at?? You sound like a nikon fanatic just trying to start crap. If you can just switch brands like that, please do. That fact tells me you don’t have any quality glass anyway, which means you probably have no clue what you’re even talking about.

  • If I were an owner of a rebel (which I am), I would be concerned about whatever camera I could potentially upgrade to. Based on current pricing, that could be a future rebel, a nicely featured XXD or a 7D. For me FF is still beyond my means, so while I do hope that FF will eventually become an affordable option for me, in the meantime I want to keep my APS-C options open. Make sense?

  • A basic rule is to spend your money in the lenses, not in the body. So you seriously consider buying a second-hand camera.

    Scene modes are available on the 50D, not on the 7D. The other features of the 7D are not really useful for beginners (unless you are buying a camera to shoot videos).

  • HAHAHA well given that Amazon got so many preorders this morning they had to change it to out-of-stock so you can’t preorder it anymore, I don’t think Canon is going to have to work hard satisfying concerns about Nikon’s marketing propaganda about 13 MP upper IQ limit. They are going to have to satisfy the massive demand for the 7D and worry about not making enough of them.

    Obviously D300 fans are scrambling to knock the 7D at every turn, and throwing them a bone and saying fine, let’s assume the D300s is slightly better in low light, it still kills the D300s on several fronts; MP, Video, and perhaps most importantly on price.

    D300s body: $1,799.95

    MB-D10 Grip to get the 8 FPS: $ 259.95

    That’s $2,059

    and I even threw in the extra EN-EL3e battery for free though you’ll need another $41 bucks for it.

    7D is 8 FPS for only $1699, and doesn’t need a grip.

    D300s is still not fully pro weather sealed like the D3 and the 7D sounds on par with it in that department.

    We’ll see what real reviews have to say about noise/ISO, but I’m betting is will best the D300s. Even if it matches the D300s it means Canon will have seriously spanked Nikon in overall image quality on this one. The 7D will have to suck big time at noise and high ISO for Nikon fans to win on that. We’ll see.

  • I shoot nature, landscapes, some still life, not really low light stuff. but my xti is only good for 400iso until the noise gets up there. The 18 mp of the 7d is appealling so i can crop and not lose resolution, is this correct? And btw I can care less about video, for me its a useless feature.And also I would hate to part ways with my 10-22 mm, I really like that lens.

  • When you say nature do you mean birds/animals which move quickly or more macro stuff i.e. flowers etc?

  • It’s interesting to see that 50D ISO 800 is very similar to 7D ISO 1600 at least when comparing the “New Indoor (INB)” images.

  • Jeff,

    I have to agree, I think the 7D is much better camera than the people who are trashing it before seeing the results. I have owned the 30D, 40D , 50D and each new camera is better than the older ones.. I personally think the 7D is going to be a great camera, but I must admit, I wanted the 1.3 crop factor for best of both worlds.. That has been my personal disapointment only. If they nail down the focus, I will buy one.. Had issues with my 40D, until canon send me a fix.

  • Some macro bugs stuff like that some backyard birds,waterfalls farm scenes and Ive gotten some good shots with the xti. But I feel its time to upgrade. I have the 100 mm f2.8 macro and the 70-200mm f2.8L 10-22mm and the kit 28-135 all canon lenses.

  • What… dude don’t sell your 1d3 for this. Your nuts!! If you have 1d3 I would cancel your orders and wait 6 moths for the 1d4.

    FYI: I used to have a 1d3, it’s a great camera. The 18MP crop sensor is not going to compare with the quality you get on the 1d3.

    I switched from 1d3 to 5d Mark 2 because I shoot weddings and FF is better for that. I didn’t need the 10 FPS of the 1D3. But… I still miss the 1d3, it just feels so good to shoot with a pro body.

    Even my girlfriend who is not a photographer used the camera just a few times and fell in love with it!

    Don’t switch yet dude, you will regret it. The 1d Mark 4 will be worth the wait and money.

  • All the images have noise reduction, how can you compare them? I want to see hardware performance, not software! The 7D could be noisier than the 50D but you can’t tell… Waiting for RAW comparison on DPReview…

  • I believe the 7D is the first of the next generation of cameras. Even if there is not a huge difference in terms of IQ (these photos are still based on the pre-production models) there are a ton of customizable options and features like dual Digic 4 in a prosumer camera, new AF system. While I believe the 7D to have bested the D300s, the D300s isn’t really an upgrade to the D300. We’ll just have to wait until Nikon releases their next gen cameras to get a true comparison (D400 vs 7D). But as it stands Canon has thrown the first punch. Isn’t competition great?

  • I think you’re confusing depth of field with what you believe is out of focus. Yes, some of the pics have portions out of focus, but they were obviously using a wide setting and going for a dof effect. This is easly rememdied, by opening up to a wider f-stop. It’s artistic, not out of focus.

    I do not believe this is a focus issue. It’s DOF.

  • This is something that only you can really answer. Depends on what you’re shooting and how often you expect to use your backup. Depends on if you want the option to use a dual lens setup with 24-70 on one camera with 70-200 on the crop.

    Personally, I wouldn’t, but that might be because I’m happy with FF and my wife would cause an investigation of my finances if I brought home another body so soon after my latest upgrade. :(

  • All taken at f2.8 may have something to do with that also what is the skill of the user?? Dont jump ship yet, just because someone posts some lousy photos on flickr

  • Re-reading what I had skimmed previously, it was mentioned that the Digic IV processor was the issue. If they can make it work on the 7D, there’s no need to think they can’t make it work on the 5DII.

    So you are correct and now the question is “Will they?”

    They may not be ignoring the pro demographic, just expecting those who want FF 24p to upgrade to the 1d IV when it comes out.

  • From the website:

    “These images are JPEGs straight from the camera, and were taken under carefully-controlled conditions, to provide valid comparisons of camera capabilities in actual shooting situations.”

    Yes there is probably noise reduction (although this is NOT mentioned on the site), but even so the end result is what is being compared.

  • “HAHAHA well given that Amazon got so many preorders this morning they had to change it to out-of-stock so you can’t preorder it anymore”

    It’s almost as if Canon shooters were acknowledging that the last several bodies made by Canon had crap AF and FPS, by waiting until a real one came out and then buying in a rush. But of course that couldn’t be the case.

    “let’s assume the D300s is slightly better in low light”

    Great, so we’re agreed that D300 has better IQ, glad you cleared that up. Tough luck about all the Lord of Darkness hype. Personally I would have offered more of a fight on that point.

    “D300s is still not fully pro weather sealed like the D3”

    This statement is false. While there may be slight differences in the sealing due to the difference body size, according Nikon and DP Review, the sealing on both the D3 and 300 is for all intents and purposes the same.

    “We’ll see what real reviews have to say about noise/ISO, but I’m betting is will best the D300s.”

    Rob Galbraith disagrees with you on this, and he shot the camera, and likes it a lot, but he even says “This means that overall, 7D image quality is shaping up to be very good. If weighted against how minuscule its sensor’s pixels are, image quality is astounding. Put in charge of the 7D’s development, however, we’d have chosen something like a 12MP sensor with better high ISO performance and richer low ISO files.” It is linked on this page, you should read it.

    I’m not here to slag the 7D. I want one. It will fit nicely alongside my D700, but this kind of “mine is better than yours” discussion is the enemy of knowledge. Although were I to judge by your comments, I might say you’re no friend of it either.

  • The subjects the camera is focused on are in focus, i.e. the flying bird, bubble, etc.. Other objects appear blurry due to the f-stop used and their distance from the focused subject. This is called depth of field, look it up. I see nothing from these pics indicating there is a focus problem. F2.8 and distance causes this, basic photography and if you don’t understand this, this camera is probalby too advanced for you, get a rebel.

  • I did the same thing…funny thing is, there seemed to be several 5Dmkii’s in stock at several online sites…and once the 7D came out and I decided to go with the 5D, I found they were suddenly mostly out of stock,…I had to go to crutchfield to order mine, which only had 2 left…arrives in 2 days, and I’m very confident canon will add 24p to it…

  • You make sense, yes. But there has never been any reason to fear there not being mid-level priced EOS cameras from Canon or the abandonment of EF-S. Even if the 7D was FF, there’d still be the xxD line and four Rebel models to choose from. Canon has a whole lens line for EF-S. It’s impossible to imagine Canon ditching that in the forseeable future.

    So the review statement from imaging-resource.com still makes no sense even with your well stated hypothetical Rebel upgade scenario.

  • I just bought the 5Dmkii today with the FULL expectation that they will add 24p…now with that said, it won’t bother me if they don’t…but I do anticipate it happening by the time the 7D is released…

  • Still doesn’t mean nothing for me, NR algorithm on the 7D could be better than on the 50D…

    I shoot RAW all the time and what is important for me is what the hardware can give, not the NR algorithm.

    BTW, there is FOR SURE noise reduction, no way to have pictures at 3200 ISO like this without… They most probably use default settings for the test, which is correct in my opinion.

  • I think Canon has a perspective of overall image quality that includes MP where most Nikon biased sensor reviewers ignore that as a value.

    Nikon has been very successful selling the notion that you can compare raw sensor noise with no value added for the higher MP, so the conclusion about IQ usually gets skewed heavily in Nikon’s favor.

    A more honest approach would be comparing noise to same MP sensors, or adding a numeric value for MP’s so it gets included as a part of overall image IQ.

    For those who shoot in the dark and use moonlight for lighting, OK, raw sensor high ISO performance is a big deal and maybe you’re willing to trade 6 MP for a slight edge in low light high ISO. For those of us day walkers its not such a big deal.

  • Oh, such sour grapes from a Nikon shooter already? The 7D must be better than I expected.

    I’ll believe the D300s has better IQ when I see actual tests done, and of course I’ll have to add my own value for the extra MP’s that the sensor reviewers will ignore in their “ratings” when they compare a 12 MP sensor to a 18 MP.

    For someone so interested in knowledge and accuracy, I find it funny you take my “let’s assume” to be admission, lol.

    I dont care if Rob disagrees with me or says if he was in charge of Canon he would have made the 7D a 12 MP camera. I’m glad he’s not in charge because he’s a Nikon lover and would turn Canon’s into Nikons, lower all the MP, raise all the prices, stop using florite in L lenses, give us 24p jello for video at half Canon’s HD size… no thank you. If he wants a low MP camera he should stick with his Nikons.

  • “The crop above right shows some detail loss due to noise suppression, but less than we’re accustomed to seeing, and perhaps even less than the Canon 50D, which has larger photosites than the 7D. Very impressive.”

    “the 7D’s noise reduction processing generally does a bit better job of preserving fine detail than that of the 50D, and it shows far fewer hot pixels at ISOs 6,400 and 12,800 than the 50D did. Overall, an excellent performance, particularly for a camera with an 18-megapixel APS-C size sensor.”

    “At ISO 3,200 and above, noise is higher and bright pixels appear more frequently, but there is very little if any of the horizontal banding that we saw from the EOS 50D at high ISOs, and there are far fewer bright pixels at the highest ISOs, even with high-ISO noise reduction turned off.”

  • I hoping the delay is from the firmware engineers putting the 7D through the paces and now they’ll get back to finishing the 5D2 firmware.

  • I’m not so excited about 24p, that may be the reason for the Nikon’s having so much jello effect as they are native 24p not 30p. 720 60p has me excited as option though.

  • Right, and you guys have to include both PST and GST right? But in your previous post you said $2294 (US) – did you mean CDN dollars?

  • Yes, we pay 13% GST+PST, so the price will be 2373 CAD.
    I might have made a mistake in exchange rate though.

  • “I dont care if Rob disagrees with me”

    Fair enough, who am I to argue with a man uninterested in hearing from those who have actually used the camera he so covets. I will listen to Rob, because he has has shot the camera. Stop me if I’m going to fast.

    And of course Rob’s a Nikon fan, that’s why Canon gave him the camera to play with. It’s all just a big conspiracy to make you feel inadequate. The bad DPReview of the 50D. The glowing reviews of D3/D300/D700. My stated admiration/desire to own the Canon 7D. All of those things are just a part of the grand design to upset you.

    Keep up the good work. Reality will be here when you decide to return.

  • Well you can worship your Rob as the god of reviewers for your reality all you want, lol. I respect he’s made a name for himself, but he’s just another photographer with his opinion and his own priorities in my view. I’ll consider his observations as a small part along with many others reviewers, and I’ll have a 7D to test out for myself before I decide on the 7D or the wait for the 1D4.

    In the mean time. The 7D spanks the D300s any day of the week just as the 5D2 spanks the D700 which can’t even make a 21 MP image or shoot 1080p video :)~

    lol

  • Wow.. it is sharper than 5D MKII and D300.. The higher resolution must really help and looks like canon fixed their noise issues.

  • The images on DP look terrible. Image quality looks like crap and sharpness is nowhere to be seen. The colors look flat as hell. If you thought the 50d sucked, well you havent seen anything yet. Canon is a sinking ship!!

  • This is a next gen camera, no doubt about it. You will see many of these features in the upgrades to the 1D and 5D series.

    Right now the only advantage the 5dii has over the 7d is its sensor, which is still a big deal.

    This is the second year in a row that Canon has thrilled the world…last yr with the 5dmkii, and now this yr w/ the 7D.

    In both cases, Canon did something the other manufacturers overlooked, and that was to take video in a dslr more seriously.

    The video crowd will snap this camera up in a heartbeat. Others will flock to the 7d for the other advancements.

    Canon will sell boatloads of these.

  • Well, canon’s marketing knows that MP sells..!! If they dont up the MP’s on 7D they cannot compete with d300. coz D300 is a pro body with pro features. So they pulled the same trick as 5DII, increase the MP.

  • Yeah, I’m not sure the hike in MP lately is purely based on IQ concerns. I think marketing is still playing a big role.

  • One thing I wish Canon would do, and that is create microsites for its cameras like Nikon does.

    The 7d seems to be an awesome camera, but compare the microsite for the Nikon D300s, or for any Nikon dlsr, with what Canon offers on its website, and there is no comparison.

    The Nikon microsites for its leading dslr’s are works of art; they have great sample images, great testimonies from leading pro photographers, and overall a great presentation.

    Come on Canon, give your cameras the websites they deserve.

  • Excuse me but… do you print RAW or the final results ?

    I mean, if the JPG result with NR is better, is not it what you wnat after all ?

  • And actually, according to Canon, they DO listen to photographers by asking 5000 pro photographers about their needs.

    It is not because they did not ask you Phil that they did not ask to real photographers…

  • So just because I haven’t been able to use the 5DMKII in concert situations (my current camera is an ageing 350D on its last legs), which camera do you think would be better at metal/rock concerts? the 5DMKII or the 7D?

    obviously, this would be an assumption, but just based of the experience of 5DMKI.

    thanks!

  • I only mentioned microdrives because this media is mentioned in 7D’s specs as a “feature” (rather useless as these are not practical and not even in stock in most stores). Saying that CF are as available as SDHC is an exageration. I just checked Best Buy Canada and the result is: CF – 6 products available; SD – 35 products. Pretty much the same picture in other big stores. Guess which card is easier to find in smaller stores or a gas station, etc. Price wise – the most expensive SDHC I found was Lexar 32GB Platinum II 60x SDHC Card at $199 CAD. Same BB shows

    SanDisk Extreme III 32GB CompactFlash Card at $349.99 CAD. Now, if I go for a cheaper, regular class 6 SDHC – I can get a Patriot 16 gig SDHC for $40 CAD (great card I use them a lot), now – thats cheap.

    Yeah, I also happen to know about those ebay and brand name converters/adaptors, but guess what – you need to take the adaptor out of the camera every time you use the reader, so the pins again get exposed and can be bent next time you insert the adaptor into the cam. I have nothing against CFs except for their price, availability and old design. A double slot could be a great feature. I agree it is not critical for IQ, etc, but this is one of those little things which together create a better product.

  • “D300 is as fast (with the grip)”

    You just said it. With the grip and only in 12 bit mode.

    “and performs better in low light from the looks of the posted samples.”

    You are talking about D300, NOT D300s. If you want rigorous tests, visit DXOMark and directly compare it to the 50D. You’ll be surprised they are nearly equivalent. The 50D has better dynamic range at high ISO but poorer color sensitivity.

    “That’s without the results of serious per pixel sharpness testing. But from the looks of the samples, that’s not going to be the case, 7d will be better than 50D, but not quite D300 per pixel”

    For image details at low ISO, use the comparometer in Imaging Resource. The 7D ANNIHILATES the D300 here.

    “and nowhere near D700 at high ISO.”

    You should compare FF 5D2 vs FX D700 at high ISO. Reduce 5D2 to same size as D700 and again it obliterates the D700.

    “Lastly, D300 is tougher, better sealed and despite the advances of the 7D, still probably has a marginally better meter/AF.”

    How do you know this? Talking through your a**?

    “No matter what the results on this camera are, Canon will have to work very hard to dispel the notion that 13MP is the upper IQ limit for APS-C, a bit of conventional wisdom made ubiquitous by the 50D.”

    DXOMark did a direct comparison of 500D vs D5000: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Insights/Canon-500D-T1i-vs.-Nikon-D5000

    a) “the Canon EOS 500D sensor is nevertheless an exceptional sensor with a very small pixel pitch and very low RAW noise.”

    b) “the Canon EOS 500D is a bit more color blind in comparison with the Nikon D5000. To compensate, a greater degree of color processing is applied, which increases (chroma) noise.”

    c) “The Canon EOS 500D behaves the same way as many other Canon cameras — that is, the readout the readout noise becomes predominant… This explains why the Canon EOS 500D’s dynamic range does not increase between ISO 200 and ISO 100 and obtains only 11.5 eV as its maximum dynamic range measurement.”

    Electronic readout noise and non-uniform color sensitivity have ALWAYS been the Archille’s heel of Canon REGARDLESS of pixel density. Pixel size has NOTHING to do it.

    We’ll see if the 7D still exhibits the same weaknesses. My guess (based on Imaging Resource samples) is they have fixed the electronic readout noise issue (thus eliminating banding at high ISO) but may still have a non-uniform color sensitive sensor.

    Remember pixel size has NOTHING to do with Canon’s failings. At low ISO, the 7D destroys the D300/D300s/D90/D5000 for image details.

  • Yep, the 7D spanks the D300s big time, the D400 will slap it back, the 7D Mark II delivers a new Quad Digic V knock down blow with 2K video and 24 FPS RAW while the D400 is only 14 MP, 1080 24p with more jello than ever, and requires a grip booster and a drop to 12 bit to hit 10 FPS…lol love the competition.

  • We have similar photographic interests.

    The 400D does not perform well at high ISO. It shows ‘dandruff’ at ISO > 400. The 450D does much better and has no ‘dandruff’. You may want to consider it. I know ‘cos I upgraded from 350D -> 400D -> 450D. :)

    I will be getting the 7D as a companion for my lonely 450D. I think that will last me for many years.

  • Sigh. Agree with you.

    Folks who do not like shallow depth of field should stick to compact cameras. The Canon S90 is probably a good upgrade.

  • When the FF 12 MP 5D made its first appearance, people were saying it performed WORSE than the D200. LOL. No kidding. Now, how pathetically ignorant is that?

  • um, I deliver clean images at twice the size to my clients, and now I’m adding video jobs I wasn’t getting before, neither of which I could do with a low MP 720p jellocam D700.

  • Yep, the Nikon marketing myths are crumbling, they’re in a panic now, denial is setting in, and then, when reality finally hits, lots of Nikon’s for sale on ebay.

  • It surely seems so, AG. The sharpness on the 7d seems to surpass the 5d mk2 here, unless the shallower DOF of the FF 5d mk2 blurred the necklace a tad. Both are F4, but as you know the FF has shallower DOF. I can’t seem to see any difference on the face of the girl. Perhaps it has focused on her face, the necklace perhaps then being slightly further away from the camera. Either way, the results of the 7d are quite good.

  • It’s ridiculous.

    The material is designed and produced in Japan and for low cost product Indonesia and so on. We are in an open market, it should be world price.

    “Europeans get liberal social assistance from govt”: absolutely beautiful… no lunch for free, we pay taxes. It has nothing to do with marketing price, sorry.

    With the unemployment rate in Europe, salary are not very high.
    If you look some platform as Amazon, The salaries factor is marginal, or just a nice reason to explain excessive or unjustified business.

    With the price difference, one can fly Paris-NewYork…

  • it’w obvious that the guy that posted that those photos are out of focus knows nothing apout photograthy……

    go to read about the depth of field man!!!

  • You’ve got to ignore the ranking thing. It’s some meaningless junk by DXO. Just look at the detailed tabs. :)

  • Is it worth buying L series lenses in addition to 7D?
    Or if I buy equivalent cheaper one I’ll get same result in sharpness, etc..

    What say you?

  • You put L lens on 7D is just wasting your money, you want super duper IQ, u must put L lens on full frame…

  • Ignore this guy. The lens is the most important factor in image quality. A L lens on a rebel can take better shots than a cheap lens on a 5D.

  • I don’t think he sounds like a Nikon user – he sounds like somebody who really wanted the Canon 7D to be great. Unfortunately, the samples on the Canon Website ARE crap. Some are soft, with really bad overall image quality. Compare the 7D portrait shot with the 5D one. Also, it doesn’t help when crap shooters like the ones on that Mac site go posting images like the ones mentioned below on Flickr. They’re AWFUL, really, really awful. Canon needs to really look closely at who they’re lending test cameras to. Somebody like Juza at juzaphoto.com would really show what the camera is capable of. At least we’ve got some nice shots from Rob Galbraith, which were the only things that made me confident to order one of these cameras.

  • Um, the subjects in some of those photographs on Flickr are completely out of focus. And it’s not Depth of Field, who knows what it is. Maybe the person taking the pictures was trying to manually focus maybe …

  • Thank you very much, for all your input.

    I did consider the rebel at the very begining but I will need a camera for low light conditions so I thought the 50D would be better and then I waited to see the announcement.

  • There is no such thing as “free healthcare” in Europe. We are forced to have a health insurance, and we pay LOTS of euros for it each month. That’s the difference.

  • sure, if everybody buys online from canon, Japan, yes, then it is an open market. but unfortunately, countries have distributors and stores to sell them, so cost of running business varies in different countries. Ex: running a store in UK does not cost the same as running a store in china.

    For the same job, salaries are different in India, china, US and UK as the living costs are different.

    If everybody thinks the same way as you, then instead of hiring a photographer in UK or europe, your clients can find somebody from a country where the costs are cheaper. how do you like it ? This can apply to any business

  • None of those pics show a focus problem with the camera. They show someone using a wide open f-stop and different things are being focused on. The pictures appear look the way they do because of how the user was using the camera and the settings used. There is no way this can simply be blamed on the camera without knowing more. 1+ dof.

  • + with a crop you’re getting to use th best part of the L lens. I have ef-s lenses and L and for the most part the e-fs doesn’t take near the quality or have the sharpness o an L. THAT’s just my opinion. The results from putting a 70-200 2.8 L on a crop vs. A ef-s is night and day.

    The ef-s 17-55 is 2.8 is a fine lens, close to an L in quality, but missing the weather sealing. Also the ef-s 10-22 is a MUST have for a crop camera and it’s an awesome lens. Aside from these two, most of the L’s will be better, it’s a matter of range and if you want something that feels solid vs. plastic.

  • +1

    I’ve got two L lenses I use on my Rebel 300D. Made me (appear to be) a better photographer overnight. Swore I wouldn’t upgrade the body until my abilities outmatched the cameras, I think I’m finally there, the 7D looks like it might be the one.

  • LOL @ all the Noink fanbois panicking. The D300s just got killed by the 7D, the same way the 40D got owned by the D300 in 2007. This is a no-brainer upgrade, all you 350D owners, this is what we’ve been waiting for, and we get to keep our beloved CF cards!!11 =D

  • the 7D might not look like a direct competitor for the 50D, but people who were only going to spend $1100 on a camera just sold their babies for an extra 600 bucks.

    if you want a $100 price drop, it’ll probably happen by christmas.

    if you’re waiting around for a $300 price drop, do what David said and just buy a T1i

  • I don’t think any camera is harder to use for a beginner; they’re all relatively at the same level of complexity/intuitiveness these days.

    I do think $1700 is an unneccessary amount to spend when you don’t know what you want in a camera yet. (mind you, it’s your money, I’m certainly not the type of person to tell people what to do with their cash)

    I would suggest buying one of the “entry-level” Canons, such as the still-excellent Rebel 450 XSi, or the new Rebel 500 T1i, and as others have suggested, buy a good lens to go with it.

    don’t just stick with the standard 18-whatever kit lens the camera comes with, invest in an ultra-wide, or a macro, or a telephoto, and find the enjoyment of perceiving and recording the world from a whole new perspective. that’s the fun of it.

    whatever camera you buy, just use it a lot. and be intrigued by what makes a good photo, and how to create a good photo. there’s fun in improving, too.

    good luck and enjoy

  • the 60D may very well be a 15 MP, 5 FPS, $1300 camera … although I don’t think it will be weathersealed. pity that.

  • I’m pretty sure Rob doesn’t say that the 7D’s high ISO is worse than the D300’s. he just says he’d like to see what Canon can do with 12 MP.

    read better, some guy

  • Why do you believe/hope that the 5D will become affordable to you some day? Do you have a plan in place? And remember, a 5D is nothing without the L lenses it craves.

  • The 24-105 f/4 L, will do better than most e-fs lenses. I would recommend it as a good walk around lens, the only problem with it is on a crop camera it doesn’t go quite as wide as most people need and will not work indoors. If you can team it up with a wider ef-s lens you are set. 10-22 or 17-55, etc. Also if you are going for low light shots an f4 might not be open enough. the ef-s 17-55 is 2.8 which might better suit you depending on your needs. The L prims are nice too, just make sure you have a good sized bank account.

    It really depends on what you will be shooting, a good L series will almost always beat an e-fs, but ranges and weather sealing may also be an issue. There is good reason why L’s cost more and that pro’s carry them around. This isn’t to say you can’t get excellent pics with an ef-s, you can, but the L will give you more of a professional “sparkle” to your pics. =)

  • stick with the 5DMkII. I think if you’re a full frame user, with a dedicated lineup of FF lenses, it’ll be frustrating as hell to realize your lenses are suddenly all crippled by 1.6X.

    however, I am apparently the anti-John Swan, with a huge array of EF-S glass, so I’m happily going to get the 7D

  • Well as a 350D owner looking to upgrade im having a hard time over this camera. Sure feature wise it looks excellent but if it ends up at £1400+ id feel better just getting a refurbished 5D for £400 less, selling the efs lenses and using the spare cash on new glass, or even stumping up a little more cash for the 5dmk2.

    I feel that if this camera is to succeed then Canon will have the price it wisely and not make it all that much more expensive than the 50D.

  • European distributors are rich.

    If a company like Amazon has such costs, perhaps they should think about another business. we are speaking about 34% price difference.

    Except Switzerland (7-8 million habitants), some Northern european countries (Norway, Denmark, Finland and Sweden lets say 25 million habitants), London, Munich and Paris, the rest of Europe get lower salaries than US.

    A 50d represents 3-6 months average salary for the 80 millions of Europeans from the former East block. The three best cities for net income are Zurich, Genève and … New York.

    In average, West Europeans taxes are about 27,8% of the income while it is “only” 26.1% in North America (East Europa 25.1%).

    One should stop to tell funny stories and myths
    I got the source from a report for UBS bank http://redaction.blog.regionsjob.com/public/EtudeUBS2009.pdf

  • I’d say the majority of users on here don’t even have a single L lens. If they did they wouldn’t be spending as much time on here fantasising as they do.

  • by the time the 7DMkII comes out, the 5DMkIII will be here. just based on a linear projection of industry competition, consumer education and demand, and technological advancement, by any of today’s standards, the 5DMkIII will be epic

  • Tough luck. It’s 2009, new features come standard now that didn’t last year. That’s the way it goes. Stuff your firmware.

  • Who cares? Why not just prepare yourself in future rather than relying on gas stations to have new memory cards in stock? Are you bonkers? Or stupid?

  • I don’t understand 5DMkII users in that regard. if the products were released simultaneously, of course we’d be upset if the 7D whooped 5D butt in a number of categories. but that was then, this is now.

    that would be like 2003 Toyota Camry owners petitioning Toyota because the 2009 Corolla got a horsepower upgrade and suddenly their torque and HP curves looked the same. products can’t travel forward in time. suck it up.

    I realize this is a horrible analogy, as I am a toyota driver and can attest to the fact that, there’s probably less torque in a Camry than in the 7D’s shutter actuation motor

  • sort of, except worse. the 40D still sold really well. it’s hard to say if the D300s is going to move units, between the fact that the people who want it already have the D300, and everyone else is now ogling the 7D

  • So what? You don’t like it, then get out of here. Sorry, but for 99% of people there is no use for dual card slots.

  • Somehow I don’t think average man on the street in Chile is representative of the target market for this camera.

  • I know the cinema people are all uppity over 24p, and I dont doubt if they are *actually* shooting movies to convert to film for the big screen that some of them will buy a 7D just to get 24p. For those using the 5D2 video for the corporate, commercial or event markets 24p is not a big deal, and may even create some jello effect issues that are not there at 30p.

  • Lenses are most important. Your first purchase should be an L lens. Then decide what camera body you can afford to connect to it. In five years time the camera will be buried in a landfill site in a third world country, while your L lens will still be alive and kicking.

  • There is no doubt about it that this is a D300 killer. This is the photographers camera. Me, being what Canon classify as a photographer, can confirm that. There is absolutely no comparison whatsoever between the 7D and the D300, this thing is light years ahead in every conceivable way.

  • I just happen to travel a lot. So I appreciate availability and low price of components on the road.

    PS You gotta be like 12 years old to call an unknown person stupid in a context of a discussion like this.

  • If I were in your shoes – first I would shower off and put on some deoderant. Secondly I would ask myself what I want in a camera and what is my budget, before making the relatively straight forward decision as to which camera to opt for..

  • Prove you put in a pre-order. I, for one, don’t believe you.

    Why not do what a normal person does and wait for some reviews to come out before making the decision to press ahead with a largely untested camera?

    This 7D is the real deal.

  • It has nothing to do with the canon price.
    Average salary in the former East Europa block is about 350$…
    Is it really similar in US?

    Europe is a bit more than Switzerland (7.5millions habitant), Luxembourg (0.5million) or Liechtenstein (0.035million)…

    You are “forced” to have a health insurance,…. Are you living in a soviet country?

    I do agree that US people are paying much more healthcare than in Europe, So if you want to buy some L glasses, push to get a “free healthcare” in US. In that way, the money that you will spare will go to the canon’s price increase…
    best price 50mm1.8: 109euros/50mm1.4: 340euros

  • The overall DXOmark ranking includes their “we like Nikon better so we ignore MP as a factor” value, and I agree, the color depth, DR and low light ISO indicators are usefull but you have to add your own judgement, common sense and priorities to the equation unless you’re a Nikon fan and just want reassurance and a feel good pat on the back info from a biased ranking. If they ever assign a value to MP we’d see the rankings all go heavily into Canon’s favor, which is of course why they dont do that.

  • Canon is paving the way forward on front of the watching world. Nikon beware. The 7D completely destroys the D300, which looks pathetic in comparison now.

  • rumor has it that the jello effect is very bad at 24p on 5d mark II… I guess only one way to find out.

  • let’s be honest here, as a 350D owner, you’ve got a lot more choices than the 7D. so no problem really unless you’re indecisive.

    you’ve got, the 40D, 50D, 7D, or 5DMkI or 5DMkII. talk about spoilt for choice.

    Canon has set a price. it is not much more expensive than the MSRP for the Canon 50D. (a difference of 200 US I believe)

  • Or you can wait a while for the prices to drop. that’s what happened to the original D300, right? :) In the meanwhile, you can concentrate on building up an arsenal of great lenses.

  • John Swan, you need to grow up a bit and learn a bit more about camera features which go further than a beginner dslr range. The EOS-1Ds Mark II comes equipped with two card slots, one for CompactFlash and one for Secure Digital Memory cards, same for Canon 1DS MKIII. A900 also has dual card slots and accepts both Compact Flash and Memory Stick Duo Media. Even Nikon D300s – dual slots too (CF plus SD). The list goes on and on. A dual slot system does not contribute to IQ, but has a number of advantages for file management and backup. Might not be too important for an amateur, but might be quite handy for a pro.

  • 5 FPS is too slow for sports. Although I use 50d at 6fps and get good shots. I also use it at 3200 when there is poor lighting and still get very usable shots. Although thats at non professional events where lighting is terrible. I usually don’t need to go about 1600 or 2000 at max at pro events.

    I’m sure this will have better noise than the 50d and its faster. This is an excellent body to have for a sports photographer or wild life photogrpaher. Also great for journalist. I’m certain newspapers will be buying these cameras because it can do video for online content and has a high frame rate.

    I think canon really hit this on the head. Its the baby brother to the 1DmkIV that will be coming out in feb surely. Same way the 5DmkII is the baby brother to the 1Ds.

    Just because you don’t see the point of this camera doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

  • the 5’s only need L (and new updated L’s at that) due to the high pixel density which means that this camera and the 50D before it also crave L. The resolution is equal in theory…

  • addressing your flaws one by one

    1. AF – agreed that I am pissed that the 7 is getting potentially a far better AF system…
    2. file size is the reason you buy a 5D
    3. the whole advantage of 24p has been talked about to death and has mostly been concluded to be a non advantage leading to the rolling shutter and jello on the Nikons that have it…
    4. Slow shots per second? compared to what? For years and years the 1 series was the only fast camera out there… the 5 series (the A2 in America) was about this speed…We do want/need a 3 series equivalent but that is not a downfall as much as a way for canon to make two different cameras in the future…

  • I am 100% with you but try explaining this to cinema5d group. Lol…you will be flamed in all directions.

  • DXOmark’s rankings need to be put in perspective.

    If they ranked sports cars like they do cameras, sports car fans would not be paying them any attention.

    It’s like if they ranked sports cars and did not assign a value to top speed, just horse power and torque, the rankings would be meaningless to everyone but raw horsepower fans. Same is true if you assign values to DR and low ISO but not MP.

  • I guess jello can be a reason for canon not offering 24p in 5dII. But, again it is just a rumour in the same cinema5d forum

  • Or canon’s marketing doesn’t want to create expectations about offering new features via firmware updates.

  • I agree. Plus, why on earth would someone order a $1,700 camera body that doesn’t understand basic photography principals like DOF. I wouldn’t think the 7d would be for someone who has never operated a DSLR before, but I could be wrong.

  • As crazy as this sounds, I’ve seen both of these pics on two different computers with different sized monitors, one was much larger, etc, but on the larger monitor, the pics appeard to have much less noise and look significantly better than on the smaller one.

    Could it possibly be what you’re viewing the pics on? Software, monitor settings, graphics card, browser reduction, etc. Anyone?

  • Well, canon decides the price for the distributors in different demographics. What amazon can do about it?

    50d might represent 3-6 months salary of eastern bloc, but canon’s target market might not be the same

    If you want pay US prices for products then you should be ready to give up free health care benefits and bring down your salaries to match up that of US.

    Again, cost of running stores is not the same in US and UK

  • That’s the best EU price so far. Wish I spoke spanish though. Do they deliver outside of Spain? Are they reliable? :)

  • all I am saying is living in a country has got advantages and disadvantages

    People want the higher income level the country offers, but do not want to pay higher price for the products

  • wasnt it rob golbraith that complained about the 1dIII AF?

    if so he is quite happy with the 7D AF

    “Static autofocus was excellent, using Spot AF, various AF points, AI Servo (we almost never use One Shot) and a small batch of different lenses. With the EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II, EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS (also introduced today), EF 70-200mm f/4L IS, EF 200mm f/2L IS and EF 800mm f/5.6L IS, photos were simply in focus.”

  • Not sure I get the pricing in Europe/UK…

    If I have a 40D or 50D and I want to upgrade then the 7D costs nearly as much as the 5DmkII…

    I’m not a pro (and know a lot like me) and the price just puts me off…

  • I find this rumor to be a bit strange…I was under the impression that the jello effect on Nikons was mostly to blame for the inferior motion jpeg compression they were using…but like you said, who knows???

  • The answer, despite the 16 year old boy (Mr. Swan) who’s mom bought him an L lens, is that yes a higher grade lens will improve your pictures. In fact… if you can only afford a 7d and a cheap lens OR a used 30d and and L lens….. Buy the 30d and L lens.

    When I first started doing pro work I used a rebel and a couple of L lenses. As long as I was in the lower iso brackets by photos were great.

    The 7d needs high grade glass even more than the averae camera due to its MP count.

  • The noise seemed kinda bad for a iso 400 picture that has had noise reduction. It could be a result of oversharpening though It does not look like it. What bothers me is how much noise is in the highlights……

  • good answer.

    Another proof of that is PowerShot.

    MP count between 5D (no II) and G10 is the same, so why so much difference in quality? Well, sensor size is 25 times smaller, but optics doesn’t do enough on PowerShots.

  • looks like that is a DOF issue. Compare the necklace sharpness in the new outdoor photo (first one).

    The iso difference is more obvious 200-800 iso photos. Check the neck bottle of area on the wall behind the Muscat wine bottle.

    The low ISO noise is a bit off putting for me but
    All in all it is pretty impressive for 18MP on a 1.6

    If I ever start shooting more action for some reason I might pick one up.

  • Consider travelling to US and buying 7D there. Air ticket + 7D in US will cost you the same as buying 7D in europe :)

    About warranty, buy MAC international – pretty cheap.

  • I think your question is more “would you rather have” than “what would you pay” – I’d pay $1,699 – already pre-ordered the 7D :-) I’ve seen the preview images online and I think they look fine. Is there noise at high ISO? Sure, but nothing that’s going to “ruin” my pictures on a monitor or 8×10 print, especially when I shoot most stuff under 800. I look at the IQ vs. camera capabilities this way: the IQ is plenty “good enough” for what I shoot and as good or better than the 40D/50D, and the extra capabilities of this camera (focus/metering/all the other goodies) make it much easier for me to actually get the shots I want (over my 20D). If you’re a pro and make money off your photos then IQ is probably more important and you can spend a lot more to get it, but with an APS-C sensor and a price under $2k I don’t think that’s who this camera is targeted at. It’s targeted at us amateur photogs who want something better than the x0D, but can’t afford the $2,600+ to get to the 5D. I think it’s funny how people complain about a new camera when it isn’t targeted directly to them and what their needs are.

  • income in Europe are not higher than US. About UK, except London (with the City), the rest should be below US. It the same for Germany and France.
    Eastern europe will have to pay the full price.
    The 50d body is 200 euros cheaper in Japan, compared to France, sorry, but income/living conditions in France are much lower than Japan.

    There is no serious reason to charge more Europe than US. The costs are nearly the same, with even bigger variations within Europe. In most european countries, people are smiling when reading such a blog with main topic, noise variations between 7d, 50d, 5dII or even 40d, they would need for some of them almost 1 year income to afford the FF….

    I’m not against the principle of different price according to the living conditions, but in Europe, it’s simply impossible to buy such bodies for most countries.

  • MAC sucks – they won’t fix anything… Stick with the companies using Sagemax or insure it yourself… that way if you damage the camera you get it fixed

  • Everyone is complaining about 18mp on a 1.6 sensor. Perhaps with the new techonlogy used in this sensor, if Canon had released a version with less MP, they might have achived equal or better noise performance than on the 5d Mkii or more expensive cameras currently in their line up with the old technology.

    Just imagine if the 7d had equal to or better noise control than the full frame 5d mkii which is nearly $1,000 more and less than a year old? If you think the full framers are flaming now…..all those 5d mkii owners would be ticked. That’s like telling the 5d Mkii owners they can’t have 24p video or a direct print button. ;-) Here’s a camera $1,000 cheaper, with a ton of more features and equal image quality, enjoy stooges.

    If the cameras had the same iq & noise performance, very few people would buy a 5d mkii going forward given the price and host of features on the 7d. Canon would have to drop the price or come up with a new model quick, plus severly piss off current 5d mkii owners.

    Also what if the noise performance is not that significant given pixal size with the new technology? Why should Canon produce a camera with less MP for the same performance? Who knows?

    The point is the 7d is going to dominate the d300s. Yes, people wanted a cheap FF, but this is a different camera and no reason to bash the 7d.

  • agree with u 100%, if canon make 7D with lower MP as noink d300, the noise performance or image quality might have achived equal or better than 5dMKII,means destroying the 5D market a lot , canon knows how to sell their camera, not to compete each other in their line up, it’s marketing strategy, not because canon is not able to make it, if this 7D image quality or noise performance is just as good as 40d, I would buy this camera without doubt.

  • Canon does a wonderful job when it comes to protecting their high end line by crippling their lower end

  • It’s a business and that’s what they feel they must do to maximize profits. How can you charge big bucks for your pro-line if you produce a camera with close to the same image quality and features for a small potion of the price.

    I’m glad Sony, pentex and others are getting into the market. It will push them to provide more for less. I believe if it wasn’t for the d300 the 7d would not exist. Yeah for us!!

  • And what tells you that the noise is actually ASGOOD as the 5D mark II ?

    I mean, first we did not see any real comparison between both and second, the technologies used are completely different.

    The 18 MP sensor of the 7D uses gapeless photodiodes whereas the FF sensor of the 5D has gaps between photodiodes. The new technology may allow the 7D sensor to be as good as the 5D.

    And concerning the killing of their 5D market… I do not think it is a problem. You will always find people to claim that FF is better and posh enough to be ok to pay 1000 USD more… even if the images show they are wrong.

  • I don’t think I said it’s as good. To the contrary from the limited samples and review’s I’ve seen, it’s as good if not better than the 40d & 50d, but not up to the 5d mkii at high iso’s.

    I said if the 7d was as good as the 5dmkii in IQ and noise performance, it would piss alot of 5d Mkii owners off and kill future sales of the 5dmkii given the price differnce and features. That’s why canon would not conciously release a smaller mp sensor with this camera if it would be as good as the 5dmkii.

    I surely hope the 7d would be better or equal to the 5dmkii, but I doubt it for marketing/business reasons.

  • It also seems Nikon and Canon don’t release competing products at similar times. It always seems that Canon is the first to release their next gen stuff then Nikon follows and the leap frogging repeats over and over.

  • There are several reasons to buy full frame, not just high ISO noise. Focal lengths are completely different on full frame. The 70-200mm, for example, is way different between the two cameras.

    Take a look at the differences in wide angled shots between crop and full frame. The 10-22mm EF-S is a great lens, but it’s pretty close to a cropped fish eye. You ask a lot more from your lenses to get those wide focal lengths on a cropped sensor, and of course, with everything else photography, there are compromises for that.

    Plus, if video is important to you, you’ll get much shallower DoF in the mk2 than 7D because with the 7D, you’ll have to use a wider angle lens to get the same point of view.

    So, there are several people like myself that will be more than happy spending $1k more for a good full frame over a very good crop.

    I’m sure you enjoyed using “posh” in your response, but you’re either glossing over or don’t understand the value of full frame.

  • I didn’t call you stupid, I merely asked you if you were stupid.

    Using your reasoning:

    Hey, fine wine sucks. You know why? Because gas stations don’t stock it. They only stock the cheap stuff. It sucks.

  • Well it hasn’t bothered me yet, you amateur. How many L lenses do you own, big shot? Go on, how many? We are all very interested in knowing since you talk such a big game. What did you say? You don’t buy L lenses because they don’t sell them in gas stations? Grow up.

  • I just gave you a list of pro and semi-pro bodies utilizing this feature proving you were way off in your “bold” assumption and this is the best you can do to respond? How can the list of my L glass can be of any relevance to this discussion? Will that eliminate the simple fact that some of the best pro-bodies use a double memory slot?

    PS Oh boy, you ARE 12…. :)

  • For most people, most of the time “L” lenses are a waste of money!!!

    Some excellent non-L lenses: TS-E 90mm f/2.8, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM plus many good third party lenses.

    BTW do your self a favor and start-off using “P” (program). Learn “Composition” first, there are way too many poorly composed, but technically excellent crap on all the photo sharing sites.

  • You’re so funny Nick.

    And downright rude.

    You are effectively agreeing with me anyway. L lenses aren’t more expensive simply because they’re heavier and have better weather sealing. Of course the picture quality with an L lens will be better than anything else.

    I also agree completely with what you say about the lens being more important. A Rebel with an L lens I would take any day over a 7D with an EF-S/kit lens.

    As I have said here previously – choose your lenses wisely. In five years time your camera body will be buried in a landfill site in a third world country while your L lens will still be one of your most prized and revered possessions.

  • Buy it on ebay. There are loads of guys on there with excellent reputations selling HK and US imports and offering 1 yr guarantees with them. The price you pay is only very slightly above the cheapest US web price. I wouldn’t buy an L lens from anywhere else.

  • Why would canon slow the frame rate on the 60D to 5 fps?

    From the 50d specs:
    Continuous Shooting Speed
    High-speed: Max. 6.3 shots/sec.
    Low-speed: Max. 3 shots/sec.

    Just askin’.

  • yeah I thought about that too, you’re probably right. it may very well be a 50D with the 7D’s video capabilities, for $1500

  • Sorry, but I don’t know a single person who ever bought an L lens and turned around after using it and say that it was a waste of money.

    FWIW – my moral for an everyday lens is simply “if it doesn’t have an L, it can go to hell”. BUT… I actually have the EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM and it’s a nice little lens… BUT… the L version of it is just around the corner and comes with IS so it will be eclipsed and I will upgrade.

    As for your “BTW do your self a favour” comment, I suggest you keep this sort of tripe to yourself. I have achieved enough in my photography career to date than 95% achieve in a lifetime. I don’t need to be lectured by somebody like you. I am on here to offer advise to people, and nothing more.

    I also understand that not everybody can afford a pretigious L lens. I’m sure there are other lesser lenses out there (like those you mentioned), that could do a decent job, but on a personal level, if I am taking pictures I only want to be using the best glass available.

  • Doubt you can without paying up front – unless of course you know somebody in store and can offer them a non-monetary form of payment in advance.

    Speaking of bad boys… my name is John. ;-)

  • I understand perfectly well the “value” of a full frame and the differences. A lot of what you said falls into the no sh-t category. =) I still assert given this “value” if the 7d was equal in image quality, it would kill 5dmkii sales. I do not believe this value would equate to $1,000, plus all the additional 7d features on on the 5dmkii for MOST people, granted that is simply my opinion. Of Course there will always be die hard full framers that will always go with the full frame, etc. regardless.

    From a marketing perspective cannon would never do it.

  • The real question is if Jenny is a bad girl? How often does she touch that direct print button???

  • This thread was started by Maud asking for advice. All I’m doing is giving Maud the advise she asked for, nothing else.

    The TS-E 90mm f/2.8 is a workhorse for Commercial Photographers, Canon makes _nothing better_ for table top photography.

  • That is the first (and hopefully only) time I have ever found a direct print button joke amusing.

  • Fine, I am not one for drawn out arguments. I do not own the TS-E 90mm f/2.8 lens myself so I can’t really comment on it, although I am aware of its popularity & commercial use.

  • Bah ouais, en Europe et surtout en France, on est des pigeons, on paye le plein tarif, c’est pour ca que j’achete plus rien en France, tant pis pour la survie des boutiques, m’en fou, on crache au bassinet dans tous les sens, now j’achète mon matos a HK ou aux States, j’ai touvé en vendeur qui rembourse si on a un supplément à payer pour l’importation :)

  • really? did you try taking 21mp pictures and 1080p video with d700? Hmm…i dont remember seeing Nikon’s claim about it.

  • If pointing out that you are acting immature and rude is rude then I guess I am guilty.

    “Hi, that’s a very stupid question. What do you think?”

    “You are effectively agreeing with me anyway.”
    I never argued that you were wrong. Only that you were acting like a haughty, immature 16 year old boy.

    Your second answer was actually a useful reply… instead of just berating the poor guy. Though your comments about landfills in 3rd world countries shows the arrogant attitude you have been barfing all over the CR posts the past few weeks.

    Do you ever wonder why you are constantly being mocked and getting into fights with people here? It is because of YOUR attitude. I can’t imagine having to deal with you in real life.

    Yawn.

    ::::Soapbox off::::

  • I, on the other hand, am extremely relevant. Just look at all my L-lenses!! Mu ha ha ha… no one can match my collection of prestigious L lenses. I’m the best L lens collector in the world!

  • Excellent, you define rules between US and UK, but you state as prerequisite that countries with low salaries are not considered. (you may find several countries in Europa where the 50d represent 6 to 9 months of salary)
    Please, be consistent and serious.

    Concerning the running stores, a friend of mine has one, its benefit on selling an eos system is extremely ridiculous and you will be happy to know that the “wallmart spirit” is not an US exception. I’m wondering what are the extra cost of international group like amazon, that share global structures.

    To finish, no lunch for free, europeans are paying for the health care system, which is not free (13.5% of the income). Such a system is enough to cover health care of a nation (even if lobbies are always trying to catch the money as subventions). The rest, is only business, but pain business.

    If US citizens prefer to pay extra to private insurance, it has nothing to do with camera price. Or do you mean that europeans are paying extra what canon loss in America?
    I heard that politics are discussing about new rules in US for health care, I wish the best issue for American people.

    I hope you will keep “low” canon’s prices, but honestly, canon prices in Europe do not match what people can afford, even in UK (go 100km away from London and see what they get…), Germany, France, Italy, Spain or Greece (workers 20-35 years old are called the 600euro generation).

    Let’s take some pictures and have fun with our equipment.

  • Sure…it certainly spanks d300….just a bit late…only after 2 years.

    this must have happened in Sep 2007…but canon was hiding for 2 full years and finally woke up in 2009

  • I dont know about them hiding, but they were developing cameras that are revolutionizing the DSLR industry. If not for the 5D2 no one would talking about DSLR video after Nikon released the 720p jellocam.

  • The only “L” I have is a 100-400 and the only reason I have that is that Canon doesnt make a good APS-C lens in this range. I would actually prefer not to carry the extra weight and if there was a decent crop lens in this range available (and under 2K) I would probably trade.

    Why does an armature that is currently shooting a XXXD or XXD because they dont want to spend the money on a 5D need any “L” glass?

    Why is it surprising that there could be people investigating their options before they drop ~$1600 of their own money on a new body just to support their hobby?

    Why does it surprise you to find us reading this forum on the 7D?

  • from what I can gather it is caused by the rolling shutter effect that seems to be largely prominant on Nikons which are 24p native. The 7D will be interesting to test on this issue, but its native 30p so we’ll see what the 24p looks like.

  • Yep I do agree with it. and the situation is worst in asian countries. Sometimes they need 2 years income to buy a 5dII. but my point is business operation cost is expensive in UK. Overhead costs like rent, wages are expensive than in US.
    Even transportation is expensive due to high fuel prices. Everything adds up. then the advertised cost includes VAT where as taxes are added at the purchase point in US.

  • well, just because some countries income levels are 10 times lower than western countries doesn’t mean the products cost must be 10 times lower. But it will be lower to a point where the vendor can a make a profit.Stores in HK and china can afford to sell for lower prices because of their lower overheads than their counter parts in UK. wages and store rents are not the same in china and UK

  • I don’t see how you would say the 7D is a crippled camera. or that even the T1i is crippled in any form when compared against its class peers. so what you’re saying just doesn’t add up

  • Exposure bracketing, spot meter linked to AF point, pro weatherseal, High MP instead of best low light capability, No Pro AF from 1D….

  • Yes but if you do a straight conversion then add the vat here in the uk (currently 15%) then that would make a more reasonable £1295. Oh btw I’m wondering as to whether or not get a 5DII instead as the price difference is only £200 ATM

  • Pardon my lack of knowledge here, but can someone clear this up for me?

    I understand that one of the advantages of a full-frame camera is a much wider viewfinder – you see everything in front of you wide and bright, whereas the viewfinder of an APS-C camera is much smaller; a bit like looking through a picture at the end of a tunnel.

    I know the Canon 7D is an APS-C camera, but does it address this? (Is that what a 1.0x magnification means?). IE does it have a viewfinder like a full-frame camera, or will the 5d mkii’s viewfinder still be much better to look through? I’d hate to drop 1700 dollars on something that looks just like my 400d when I look through it.

    And if not, why can’t camera manufacturers stick a nice wide viewfinder into a crop factor camera anyway?

  • Look through the dpreview hands-on preview http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page5.asp it has a diagram of the size of the viewfinder compared to others. It doesn’t have the 400D on there however.

    On their scale, the 400D would be a 0.5x viewfinder compared to the 7D’s 0.63x and the 5DII’s 0.71x so the 7D’s viewfinder would be roughly half way between a full frame and your camera.

  • The 7D has a completely new AF system that, by Canon’s own admission, is better than that used in the current 1 series.

    The lack of exposure bracketing is a joke – really who cares?

    The rest of it I wouldn’t argue

  • its been like 4yrs since it was first release…

    so I guess there’s a replacement for this lens soon?

  • Maybe to add is or a wider aperture? The 10-22 is an awesome lens as is, but having “is” or making it better for low light would be nice.

    I know canon would never likely make an in camera “is” system, but it sure would be nice for lenses that don’t have “is”. Think about how
    much more useful the 10-22 would be for video if there was at least some kind of “is”. I know, I know, in lens “is” is better, but there are many good canon lenses without it. If the lens has “is” te camera could recognize it and turn thebin camera “is” off. I know pipe dream…..

  • alright, I guess what I am considering “product differentiation” is what you are calling “crippling”. so it’s a basic disconnect.

    all of the above are valid differences. but I don’t see any of them as crippling the camera. in fact, I’m going to buy it in large part because of the 18 MPs.

    it also has weathersealing — probably not as much as the 1-series, but does it need to? I’m a sucker for putting my camera places it doesn’t want to go, and if my 30D survived what it did, the 7D will do amazing with what sealing is being shown.

    its got better AF than the 5-series, and its basically a modification of the core AF system from the 1-series. in a camera $3000 cheaper. crippling? I think not.

    think enabling

  • Not to be rude, but there’s also several reasons to buy APS-c. The shallower DOF is not wanted in macro (like when you want a 1:1 picture of a bug). Also you have “more zoom” with APS-C which is handy when you like sports or wildlife photography.

    There is no best choice in general. There’s only personal choice, based upon what people want to take pictures of. I assume everybody here knows what they want, and which camera is best for that.

    Cheers

  • Not rude at all, but not exactly correct. The shallower depth of field only refers to the same framing between the two cameras. There’s no actual magic going on that gives you shallower depth of field with a full frame. Basically, every advantage of having an APS-C is available to a full framer, when it comes to the sensor size itself. If you crop out a 5dmk2 at 1.6X, you get an 8mpx APS-C, with all of the image features of an 8mpx APS-C.

    However, the differences at that point are related to sensel size. Any extra reach/zoom doesn’t come from the sensor size, it comes from the sensel size. You actually will get more reach from the 7D than the 5Dmk2, but that’s only because the sensels are so much smaller. This would never happen, but if the 5dmk3 was 46mpx, you’d get the exact same reach as the 7D.

    You mentioned you’d get a wider DoF with macro. That might be technically true, but it’d also be based on sensel size. Having smaller sensels would allow you to step back a little bit further from the bug (maybe an inch or so) and get the same shot that you’d get from a camera with larger sensels. That’s it – nothing to do with APS-C or full frame.

    In terms of image quality, there actually is a best choice – a full frame with a very high pixel count. A full frame with the same sensel size as an APS-C is an APS-C PLUS some. You wouldn’t lose anything in terms of image quality.

    The only real advantage of the APS-C cameras is price. Everything you can do on an APS-C can be done in full frame, if you’re willing to pay for it. It just takes more hardware and processing.

    The notion that APS-C gives you more reach is a myth. It all comes down to sensel size.

  • I wouldn’t hold your breath. If you look at Canon’s lens lineup, NONE of the wide angle zooms or wide angle primes have IS. I don’t think it is really needed in a short focal length lens (although it couldn’t hurt.) You can already get relatively slow shutter speeds without problems just due to the short focal length.

  • Exposure bracketing is just a software limitation which canon imposed so that it will be a “feature” in 1D series

  • Can’t blame the designers at Canon eh? Im quite sure the next gen of 5DIII and 7DII will have that very feature :) otherwise they will have “nothing” to upgrade :D

  • lol u’ve got an attitude John :)

    I reckon great photos does not “always” need an L glass…
    It depends on one’s need and nature of photography one is doing… the weather seal that comes with some of the L lenses are only compatible with the 1 series, so most of the time who would dare to even go out with their most expensive gear in the rain? (unless they have some sort of protection to their gear that is :))

    So, what is the benefit of efs… they are smaller, and due to the short back focus, the lens can be constructed at a lower price (they uses fluorite elements and it takes a long time for them to grow… efs however requires smaller elements and hence easier and faster to grow and produce consequently), the 10-22 is a very sharp lens, the 60 mm EFS is another very2 sharp lens… and having the 18-200 it is a very useful general purpose lens… so I think it is lenses that is best suited for budget constrained photographer, such as my self XD lol.

    Well, it is always a juggle, however, to invest in the right type of lenses… if interest of photography leads you to FF later on in the future, investing in EFs lenses will not be a good decision… however the good thing about the announcement of the 7D is that it marks Canon commitment to their EFs line… and hence… EFs lenses price wont go down as much (to the popular ones anyway such as the 10-22, 17-55, 60 macro etc) should we sell them upon moving to FF.

    However, having said that, L lenses do give a “pop” on the photos, very sharp, build quality is excellent… well… it is really I have to say… very nice to have… I have tried the 50 1.2, 24-70, TSE 90 2.8L, 70-200, 17-40, those lenses gave me the WOW! effect, however, it does not make me a better photographer… basics is very important, and that is how I view photography… get the basics and concepts right first… keep on shooting and continuously learning :)

  • Hi Dee, sorry I just wanted to add on to this, the 7D view finder covers 100% as oppose to 98% to that of 5DII, but 100% of 7D only covers its aps c sensor… whereas view finder at 5DII covers 98% of FF sensor… therefore the 5DII view finder will still be much wider than the 7D… oh and yes, I have seen and touch the 7D… I went to an event not knowing that there will be an announcement of the 7D… and so we get to play around with it… although, we were not allowed to take picture with it. (the 100 mm L macro, 15-85, 18-135 were there as well)… Im a happy chap that night :D

  • it will be wider than the 400D :)
    as 400D view finder is very dim, the 7D is much2 brighter due to the pentaprism.
    it is smaller than 5DII though… it is still a crop camera after all :)

  • 1. You had better hope Canon gets the 7D AF right or else the 1D4 will be screwed.
    2. 5D2 has banding and pattern noise which is very hard to remove, better hope Canon’s new sensor design is as good as it looks regarding pattern noise.
    3. Regarding 24p, could it be Nikon doesn’t really know how to do video.

  • You’re an idiot! All I needs is my L lenses! I don’t give a flying squirrel about photography!

  • I am well excite to receive this photo-camera. I hopes it shall be the destructor of the Nikon D300s.

  • Most 12 year old are much more pleasant to be around than 16 years olds. Arrogance being a key factor.

  • I cant, they got all my contact details XD
    but 7D felt substantial on my hand… it is rather heavy even without the battery, makes it rather feel like the 5D. Just my thought anyway, I liked the ergonomics on the 50D better :)

  • i dont think it will happen… is is not needed for lens with that focal length, maybe make the aperture bigger like the sigma 10-22 3.5 :)

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