Canon 2010 Roadmap? [CR1]

Wow~ A FF version of the 7D will be warmly welcome~

Square sensor wouldn’t work for the 1Ds4 – that would put the corners too close (in some cases outside of) the imaging circle – which would mean vignetting.

See this image for en approximate example – http://www.imagetrendsinc.com/images/products/Hemi-Compare-FullFrame.jpg

So if the sensor was taller, it would extend close to the edge of the imaging circle for some lenses.

I’d say the square sensor rumor is more like CR0

Oh also, I have a feeling if we get a 60D, it’ll be a very mild upgrade from the 50D (probably just Movie Mode and a few mini-features).

On the 3D, I don’t really see that happening any time soon – the gap between the 5D2 and the current 1DsIII is way too small. So the 1DsIV would open that up a little bit – but not enough to place a new product between the 5DII & 1DsIV.

I’m hoping the 1DsIV will be Canon’s first big attack on medium format – by keeping the sensor size the same, but focusing on resolution and image quality, they could really start stepping on some medium format shoes.

I’d say 90% of Canon’s current lenses wont support a 1×1 imaging circle.

“What will be anounced will be the 1Ds IV. This will be a totally new product with a new design. The new design is needed due to the fact that new sensor will be 35×35mm. So sort of medium format but not a full medium format.

The new sensor and format is needed to go into the low 40 megapixel range.”

I don’t buy it, seems like a fanboi wishlist, if Canon is to release a medium-format camera I doubt it will fit directly into the EOS format or share its naming conventions.

“The new year will bring no 60D, and no follow up for the 500D.”

Seems VERY unlikely, I can imagine Canon not refreshing 50D as it’s a fairly new product but I cannot imagine how they would not update their popular entry level 500D.

“It also paves the way for the new xD model (probably the 3D)”

More fanboims – FF version of 7D already exists and it’s called 5D. I don’t see Canon further segmenting their pro line-up with introduction of yet another camera model.

This email has exactly zero credibility, there is nothing there to indicate that anything mentioned there is more than just random wishful thinking.

50D sucks.

60D is coming.

Nikon already has the 3D. it’s called a D700. Canon’s 3D had better offer the ‘same’ as the D700 at the same $2700 price or less.

Well said. This all seems more CR0 than CR1.

I think there’s almost no chance of the 5D series getting targeted/redesigned for sports.

Canon need only merge 7D features with 5D2 sensor. Simple.

Well, All lenses that are for FF would be most likely to cover it, that was always the argument for square, your making the most out a lenses circular imaging circle. A little more corner fall off might be the result though.

As for the mirror clearing it, that would be an issue potential, although I don’t know how close EF lens rear elements come to the mirror at this stage.

Well a FF version of the 7D would be a FF sports camera, 8 FPS and an AF to handle it, and that’s just not the target market for the 5D series. I use the 5D2 all the time and the AF is great, for what it’s designed for. Seems to me the only people complaining about it are those that want to shoot sports/action with it, and I’d love to as well, but I bought the camera knowing full well that’s not what it is designed for. Canon seems to think sports shooters want crop, that’s probably why the 1D4 is a crop as well as the 7D. The 5D series seems pretty clearly targeted to high rez shooting, not action/sports, I just don’t see that changing.

I’d say that this is a work of fiction. some Canon “L” lenses have baffles internally and the rear opening is rectangular. My 17-40mm L has a rectangular rear opening, and my 24-105mm L has a baffle along the bottom. I’m sure there are other lenses like this.

I really don’t see 3D coming to reality, how is that even possible to not eat into 5d2’s market, we already see 7D eating into “some” of 5d2’s market.

and it is really CR0 to me as well. I don’t think it takes a lot of RnD to make some changes to 50D to make it a 60 since the base and foundation for the camera is in place and to devastate d90, it is what they have to do.

I love the concept of a square sensor, but serious optical issues would have to be overcome.
Either a smaller sensor would needed, or the larger sensor placed farther back then a software hack for auto focus lenses to adjust for the new position of the focal plane.

40 mp would be a mistake with a sensor even at 35mm, it competes with Hass. and Phase,
in numbers but until Black Silicon or Artificial Diamond wafer as a chip medium becomes available high iso noise would be like the 7D or worse. To be honest If they tackle all the other hurdles then 28-30mp with high ISO numbers would be cool enough.

And yes RED like video abilities would make it a show stopper.

Now if only Apple would get there Head out of their… well… I’d like a update to Aperture or at least raw for the 7D.

3D is a niche that Canon could fill. 5D is a compliment to the 1Ds system while the 3D could be the compliment to the 1D system. A lower resolution than the 5D with higher ISO performance and faster FPS as a result, plus improved AF would be most welcome. It could even come branded as a variation of this rumor with a 21MP sensor and the 5D MkIIn name? My fear for the 5DII upgrade, whenever it comes, is that Canon will increase the resolution again beyond current technology’s ability to maintain/improve ISO performance.

As a wedding photographer I’d sell both my 5DII cameras and go with a 3D version in an instant. 16-18 megapixels would be perfect.

I don’t think the 5D2 went beyond it’s ability to maintain/improve ISO, it improved that most excellently. Personally I’d LOVE them to make AF points at the rule of thirds intersections and I’d take that over servo speed improvements in a heart beat. Improve the point layout, the speed is fine for 3 FPS. I think the 5D3 will match the resolution of the 1Ds4 and will continue to be targeted to the high rez shooters. I’d love a 3D, I just don’t see why Canon would be motivated to make one, as the 5D series pretty much holds the same target market as the EOS 3 did, which was also not a sports/action camera.

It’s a valid concern to wonder how much of a delay would be involved for the camera to track your eye, the EOS 3 wasn’t exactly blazing fast at it, so it could potentially slow down more what some people feel is an already too slow normal AF.

Square sensor would have to be 24×24 not 35×35.

Peter

I agree with the zero credibility statement. It seems like someone was bored and decided to email a bunch of random rumors they just made up.

My Elan 7E eye focus works well, too. It’s pretty much instant, and much faster than manually selecting an AF point. I don’t see how adding this feature could be a drawback. It’s not like you have to use it.

Well, I’ve considered trading in a 5dII for a second hand 1ds II, I’m only a uni student who does odd jobs on the side. in my coarse I know about 8 5d shooters and 5 of them complain about the same problem as me. it’s often by a small margin it misses, but it’s not a lens calibration issue as it can be behind or in front and like I said never more then 3 cm and that’s kinda rare usually by a lessor amount like 1cm. I’m predominantly studio based so a lot of the time I don’t really get caught on it, but it happens enough for me to question it. I have a 20D and a 40D kicking around that don’t suffer it and they also both acquire subjects faster. I could just be out of luck with my particular 5dII… I’d care less if it hit 4fps or not, but would kill for 7d like AF. Having said that I still think the 5dII is the best over all camera in it’s market position easily, just frustrates me as it’s so close to my ideal camera.

I dont know what to tell you. The guys I mentioned are working pros like me, and you want to see a geek fest over cameras it’s when we get together, so it’s not like we haven’t been looking for potential flaws in the 5D2. Most of the complaints have been about the FPS and AF in servo mode, action shooting. I would love 5 FPS with the 7D AF in the 5D2, then I wouldn’t need the 7D, which is probably why I’ll never see those specs on the 5D series.

It’s alright, I don’t expect some ground breaking suggestion, or some bit of information that changes my world, I know from my experience (I’ve even tested it on a tripod in the studio) that my particular 5d has af inaccuracies, I’m not sure how common the issue is though. The issue only ever bothers me when I shoot wider then f/2.8-4 so it’s avoidable. It happens in all shooting modes including single shot (I almost never use servo).

I expect the next 5D to have somewhat better AF, doubt much will improve in servo/fps. I’m not too sure where they’ll go with resolution. But noise will most probably improve even further and hopefully DR goes up slightly (not that it’s an issue now, but more is always nice). Most probably video will keep making steps foreword, better AF, and the same control lay out as the 7d’s video features.

Just because Canon doesn’t try to match Nikon’s lineup exactly doesn’t make them inferior products. I’ll take my 21 MP 1080p 5D2 over a 12 MP D700 any day, and I’ll take the 7D over D300s any day.

the problem with canon is that they are trying too much to increase MP while sacrificing noise improvements. if they would only follow the optimum MP and focus more on noise reduction. except for the 5d2 of course.

“except for the 5d2 of course.” …and the 7D, and the 1D4, even the 1Ds3, and the 50D’s not bad for the price either, I just don’t buy the “Canon isn’t improving noise reduction and only increases MP” mantra at all. It’s just not true. The people who want no more than 12 MP for basically the same noise as Canon’s higher MP cameras should go buy Nikon’s and stop complaining.

Actually, The_D had it correct. A square sensor of about 30×30 would fit inside a FF image circle. At 35×35, the image circle would have to be about 17% larger.

2000d with 12-13mp..?
550d 4-5fps Please! 15mp more AF points please!like maybe 11af points?
why not full HD 1080p @30fps video recording?did canon realize this that..their HD video recording became more popular than the d5000..

Yep. In the USA that was the A2E, I had two of them and loved the eye focus, which was much faster than manually selecting the focus points via finger. I did take some effort to calibrate, but once you did it worked fairly well.

It’s funny, if you go read the Nikon forums everyone complains that all Nikon does is offer a bunch of 12 MP cameras (flagship model being the exception). I’d be interested to see how many users really take a significant amount of shots above ISO 1600.

The complete posting seems to be a hoax. Almost none of the current canon lenses would fit for a square image circle of 35×35. Canon (and the photographers) would need a complete new range of lenses. I’ve made an image to show the problem.
http://img109.imageshack.us/i/imagefc.gif/

And of course Canon needs a successor for the 50D (at least with video). The gap between 7D and 500d is too big to have no successor of the 50D. For one 7D you get nearly three 500D.

There will be only little space for a FF camera below the 5D II. Lower FPS rate and worse AF are not possible. The only way would be a sensor with a lower resolution, e.g. 15 MP. But in the past lower resolution was not the Canon way.

*too conservative

36x24mm is 43.3mm diagonally, 35x35mm would be 49.5mm, EF lenses were designed to be cover 43.3mm, so a fabricated rumor and whoever fabricated it was mistakenly thinking that if EF lenses can cover a 36mm wide sensor, then they can cover the same length (35 or 36mm) in both width and height, but no the maximum square sensor that EF lenses can cover is 30.6×30.6mm which is 13% smaller than 35x35mm.

If the sensor is square, what’s the point of a vertical grip????

Eye-focus and video does not compute. You need to be looking through the viewfinder for the eye-focus to work, and when shooting video you have your mirror up, and then there’s nothing to be seen in the VF…

Actually contrast-detect-AF and eye-focus doesn’t make sense either.

i think it’s even below a normal wishlist type of CR0, maybe CR -1, CR0 are just unlikely from the marketing point of view (a full frame 7D is a CR0), they just sound too wishful but don’t include exotic or weird ideas like creating a new format, requiring new lenses, as upgrade within an existing series of the old format.

Bogus.

“Canon lost huge market share to Nikon”

That’s what gave it away. The ONLY people saying that are people on forums. This is someone’s guess.

You are right, if it were SX20 or Pro1, then it will not be EVIL… :)

I was just thinking that the M4/3 EVIL camera can achieve that kind of size not only because of the removal of the mirror box, their sensor size is considerably smaller as well.

Looking at the Samsung NX, I was thinking that it is not that small after all. Their lenses look huge. Maybe it will be lighter but definitely not that much smaller than an entry level dSLR. I am not expert but my guess is with an APS-C sized sensor, the lenses cannot be much smaller.

So if Canon were to produce an EVIL camera with lenses that are smaller and lighter than the 1000D and EF-S, I think they may need a new sensor format as well. Backward compatibility with EF/EF-S will be likely be complex. Note that the m4/3 and the 4/3 uses the same sensor optimized for smaller system size.

Even so, up till now, the promise of a pocket size camera with interchangeable lens is never actually realized by the m4/3. The closest is the E-P1 but it is still not pocketeable and there are some vibration issue with the retractable lens.

On the other hand, I have seen some reviews on the G11 vs the GF-1. It seems that the G11 (even the S90) comes quite close to the performance of the GF-1 on many occasions. Perhaps, Canon could just continue improving on a slightly larger version of the G11 sensor and get really close to the EVIL cameras in terms of image quality.

If Canon releases a G11 or Pro1 like camera (eg, pro1) with a larger sensor and a fixed but usable zoom lens (24-135?), I will be glad to carry this pocket sized camera with a good ISO performance and DOF control over the m4/3 system.

The logic is simple, if you carry a few interchangeable lenses with a camera, then you need a bag. If you carry a bag, there is not much difference in carrying, let’s say the 1000D or the G1/GH1 or even the GF-1… If you carry only one lens with your system most of the time, then why bother making the system support interchangeable lenses?

Wasn’t there a patent recently about a new hinge mechanism for raising the mirror that caused it to swing out a lot less?

I suppose making such a hinge very light and robust was the issue, as it is not a particularly novel concept. We’ve had up-and-over garage doors for as long as anyone can remember.

I heard rumours Canon is looking at mirrorless dSLR.

Strange, last time I checked BCN ranking in Japan, the Canon 500D (27.9%) single handedly accumulated more market share than the D5000(11.6%), D90(5.79%) and the D3000(4.5%) combined.

This is without considering the 450D (4.04%) and 7D (5.75%).

hmmm… maybe someone else can share other market data here.

“The gap between the 5D2 and the current 1DsIII is way too small?” How so? The price gap is immense. The autofocus gap is immense. Give us a sub-$3000 full frame camera with a much better layout of AF points. There need to be more of them, too, and they all should be cross-type. We need a camera that is as good or better than the Nikon D700 in the aspects of usability, not just in resolution.

This “rumour list” of Canon’s 2010 roadmap looks like a weak attempt to get headlines.

Good point about the mirror. The mirror flips towards the lens on its short side, so a square mirror might cause lens-slapping problems.

Ah, good point – I forgot about the rectangular hole – the 70-200mm has it, and I believe the 135mm does. The 35mm does not.

“Bigger sensor: There aren’t any technical reason why Canon couldn’t put a bigger sensor in there”

Err the fact that the sensor would mechanically vignette with probably 90% of current EF lenses and the rest of the 10% won’t perform to spec (because the spec is only written for a 43mm image circle won’t be enough?

“What about new lenses? The EF mount has a large radius for a 35mm mount to be able to support large apertures. That mean that Canon could make some lenses with a larger imaging circle.”

The lens throat might be somewhat bigger for the EF mount, but a 36x36mm sensor requires a 51mm image circle. The EF mount is only 54mm wide.

Look I’ve got zeiss blad lenses that have square rear “hoods” as well, they still produce circular image circles.

As I understand it, that’s more about protecting the rear element of the lens then anything else, the longer the lens the longer that hood will be generally.

24 to 28 megapixels
24×36 mm newly developed sensor
dual digic IV processors
5-6 fps
buffer memory large enough for that
hd video
plus all other bells and whistles of 1d mk IV, maybe with new iFCL exposure system included (that one from 7D), and all standard things from 1 series

that is what should and will be 1Ds MkIV

and don’t expect anything else. TANSTAAFL.

+1

OK, I just want a 5DII (whatever it’s called) that I can go into my award cermony shoots and actually focus on stuff. Less pixels too, also to cost less than the D3s that I am looking at now.. So please get a move on Canon.. Oh and can it work from the release date..

I’m sure it has, and it is faster than switching points by finger, but in terms AF speed it could delay it slightly, lens AF was much slower back then than today too so there was more time to compensate for any lag from the eye focus.

The FF version of 7D is nowhere near to be the 5DII… we’re talking about fast autofocus and burst (8fps against 4…), better weather sealing, having two Digic processors and so on. Nothing that the 5DII has. There’s definitely room for a more expensive FF camera in the 3000-4000$ range.
Luc

I think it will happen. It may be called the 5D3, but Canon is already on record for saying that the 7D feature set will migrate to other segments of their DSLR lineup. Which means 5D3 or 3D or whatever you want to call it is coming, it will have better weather seals, faster AF, more AF points, likely higher frame rate (especially if they keep the sensor at 21 mpx).

I think you nailed it

lol how are they gonna track your eye in Liveview with the mirror up? You’re right, it doesn’t compute.

It’s only Nikon fanbois trying to give the impression Canon has lost all it’s market share to Nikon. What’s BNC say about 5D2 vs. D700? From the forums you’d think the D700 outsells it 1000 to 1, but somehow I doubt that. lol.

Sounds good to me. I still think they’ll match whatever the 1Ds4 resolution is on the 5D3, but we’ll see.

it woudn’t be a DSLR without the mirror.

If only the 1D4 was FF…problem solved… unfortuantely it’s not.

ahaha, score.

Yeah, personally this is a bit of a stretch.

A square sensor would be interesting, to switch between portrait and lanscape without rotating the camera.
wahat else would be possible: a cross shaped sensor or even better: a circle sensor

Not going to happen. There is no way Canon is going to reverse on the mega pixel trend. If you really want a 12 MP camera, I’m sure that you could find someone on the nikonrumors site to trade with. They complain just as much about the 12 MP size of (the majority of) Nikon’s cameras as people complain over here about the high MP offerings from Canon.

As far as working from the release date. Well, no one if perfect. Firmware updates are to be expected. How many times do you update your computer? I have a mac and for being the great/stable OS that everyone raves about, I’ve downloaded more updates in the last year than I did in the previous five on my XP machine. The updates for the 7D seem to have been for problems that only a few people ran into. I could be wrong about this, but none of the reviewers mentioned the ghosting.

I think Canon (and Nikon) have both come out with great products in the last year and have both staked their claim to different segments of the market. Yeah, I’d love to have a FF (with built in crop modes) that does 24 and 12 MP and 10 fps with insane ISO, but that doesn’t mean I’m not happy shooting on what’s currently out there.

Ok, getting off of my soapbox. Time to head outside and take some pictures.

Is it just me, or would you rather read rumors about new lenses?

f/2.0 zooms?
replacements for 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 IS?
new primes: 35? 50? 135? with IS?
new super teles: 300, 400, 500?

Only a few of us can justify the $8000 purchase of a 1Ds.

Many of us can justify “investing” in excellent new glass designed to take advantage of 21+ mpx sensors.

Why the hell is that not the target market? Who said the 5 series needs to stay restrively crippled to only half-use markets???

The EOS 3 was a hell of a lot faster and fancier body than the 5D2.

They can’t make the AF rule of thirds on FF without compromising it.

If the 5D3 is 35MP and 3.9fps and the D800 is 24MP and 6-8fps with top everything I bet a lot of people will really eye that D800, everyone but soley dedicated landscape and pro studio shooters.

What if the Canon lineup will look like this:

1Ds – 5D \
7D
1D – 3D /

Where 3D will be a baby 1D with 1.3 crop (same sensor as 1D), 5D we know already (same sensor as 1Ds), and 7D becomes like a do it all (entry)pro body (high fps and high res).

I think it could fit…

again :-(

my design mistake :)
anyway i guess it s clear
top level: 1d IV and 1ds IV (2 types for speed(fps) or quality (FF)
hi-level: SAME, 2 types: 7d (fps) AND 5d3/7ds/3d (FF)
med-lev: 1type
low-med xxxD
entry xxxxD

I’m not 100% sure about that, remember the 1D was the first, then there was the 1Ds… from which 1D->3D and then 1Ds->5D.
I don’t really believe it myself but could be an explanation :-)

Let’s bet on the specs?

1Ds IV:

~32MP (MKIII is 21 = 10(1D III)*2) -> double res, half fps (5) = capacity of dual digic IV.

60D: 18MP like 7D, ~6 fps with DIGIC V!!!

550D: 18MP like 7D, ~4 fps (single digic IV, half fps).

2000D: I think 15MP but…

I’m 99% sure we will see a 2000D and a 550D, maybe the 60D.

I don’t know how the 60D and the 550D could differentiate between them and with the 7D…

Eye focus through a blacked out viewfinder?

I think you nailed it too, assuming that Canon designed the lens to perfectly fit the full frame sensor (a totally reasonable and logical conclusion). The only way I could see them getting bigger than that is if they maybe have a a couple more mm on the edges to push the sensor out to… but then vignetting would be even worse as well as CA, distortion, the whole shebang.

The T1i has better high ISO noise performance than the 50D. And the 7D looks about the same as the T1i, so I’m pretty sure they are working on that.

“Yeah, I’d love to have a FF (with built in crop modes)”

As would I. It’s too bad Canon decided to put that seemingly pointless extra piece of plastic on the back of the EF-S lens that would hit a full frame mirror.

Someone please feel free to correct me, but isn’t it pointless? I’ve had only the 18-55 EF-S lens and it seems to me that extra plastic could be hacked off as there isn’t any glass in there. Do other EF-S lenses have a lens element farther back in that extra plastic?

Not to mention I can use my “digital only” Tokina 11-16mm on my full frame camera at 16mm with no problem since there’s no extra plastic in the back.

The 10-22, 17-55 and 18-55 all have rear elements that will protrude into the mirror box of a FF camera I think (at shortest focal length usually).

yes the 7d is fully loaded with features. but i have seen a lot of poor reviews on the net. i havent tried the 7d yet so i could not say if their reviews are correct. but reading all those stuff makes you think twice. i am an available light photographer and low noise performance is what i am after. as a hobbyist i could not justify spending that much for a 5d2. also i prefer a crop body too

I would be very disappointed if there is no 60D next spring. My plan has been to wait for the 60D and see how good (or bad) the IQ etc. are and then make a camera purchase. If there is no 60D, then probably a 7D. I was hoping that some of the new technology and specs would trickle down and I could get a very good camera and spend some additional money on a nice lens…17-40?

It’s really too bad Canon didn’t make the 1D4 FF, that would have solved the whole problem. Unfortunately Canon seems to believe sports shooters want a crop camera, so if you want FF for sports buy a Nikon D3.

i don’t really believe there will regularly be 4 series of 1.6x, at least one of them has to go, it is not 7D, could be any of the other 3, if i have to guess, i’d say no 1000D replacement, already 18 months old, and no signs of the 2000D, probable Canon thought that competing with m4/3 et al won’t be served best with the xxxxD series, they also always continue selling the old xxxD cheaper with the newest model (450D w 500D), so why bother with 2000D.

CR0.

Have a look at Canon’s EOS update timeline of the last 9 years. Every Rebel/xxxD camera has been updated on an 18 month cycle. With the exception of the D60->10D and 40D->50D updates, every xxD camera has also been updated on an 18 month cycle. Canon will update the 50D and 500D at around 18 months (that’s around PMA and Photokina time, respectively). Bet on it.

The 60D will probably be the bastard single-digic child of the 7D and 50D. The 550D will probably also stay around 15mp and add video.

Chuck W. has said on multiple occasions that there’s just not very much demand to bring back Eye Controlled Focus (what the rumor calls “Eye Movement Focus Control”). I think he’s one step short of considering it a gimmick.

There have been various rumors of a “Canon medium format” system over the years. My take:

– Canon is researching how to get more sensor real estate without abandoning the EF mount. It may be that a 49.5mm diagonal is as big as you can go in EOS land without vignetting. That’s a 30% increase in sensor surface area, plus a square sensor would indeed . Of course it would require new lenses to take advantage of the new sensor, but at least it would be backward compatible with existing EF lenses.

– Canon’s lens development resources are already stretched thin, and in the current economic conditions there’s no way they have the extra R&D budget to crank out a whole new professional product line. This stuff will remain in the can for at least the next 3 years.

In the current economic situation, is there really room for another semi-pro camera between EOS 1 and the xxD? The 7D was clearly pointed straight at the D300s. I think that Canon will do one of two things within 6 months of the release of the D700’s replacement:

– sit tight and continue to compare the 5DII to it.

– release a full-frame version of the 7D (personally I’d be happy with 1.25x, and it would fit nicely between the 5D and 7D) to compete more directly with Nikon. If they do indeed go this route then that means that there’s clearly a new development team dedicated to the “between xxD and 1-series” semi-pro line (since work started on the 5DII) as we’ll have seen one camera per year out of that group, as opposed to the 3 year update cycle of the original 5D.

4.5 fps on the EOS 3 without the booster, but keep in mind all it was doing was moving film, no bandwidth issues for resolution. A booster would have been a nice option on the 5D2, maybe we’ll get one on the 5D3.

I don’t buy the excuse they can’t make the AF at the rule of thirds on cameras, people are not asking for it, so they don’t design for it. Just because the engineers have doctorate degrees does not mean they understand principles of compostion.

I doubt Nikon will get 8 FPS on a 24 MP body the size of the D700. The D3x is only pulling 5 fps at 24 MP.

I can only speak for the 18-55, since that’s the only one I have. But, there’s no glass in that extra piece on the back of the lens. The glass is well forward of it, much like a normal EF lens.

Nevermind. I was just looking at it and when it’s on the wide end the glass on the rear of the lens actually moves. Never noticed that before.

I owned the 5d mark II for a few weeks, but returned it the day after a realized that it wouldn’t get an accurate focus off of my daughters smooth cheek even in a well lit room from a few feet away. She wasn’t even moving! That was a huge disappointment to spend $3500 for the kit and not be able to get a good focus! Very disappointing indeed. However I am currently on the buydig.com waiting list for the 1d mark IV and i am very very hopeful that this camera will be able to perform proper and rapid and accurate focus. Please Canon. fix the previous model’s problems and put out a good solid product. For $5000 Please!

Not buying a word of this.

Canon doesn’t make a booster grip like Nikon does, not yet anyway.

“Canon’s lens development resources are already stretched thin, and in the current economic conditions there’s no way they have the extra R&D budget to crank out a whole new professional product line.”

Says who? The Canon financials I’ve seen show huge multi million dollar profits every quarter. What source do you have that shows Canon’s R&D is stretched thin?

“In the current economic situation, is there really room for another semi-pro camera between EOS 1 and the xxD?”

The 5D2/7D are selling like hot cakes, and even the 1D4 has lots of preorders. DSLR sales seem to be booming. Canon would do better to offer the most complete and comprehensive range of cameras and lenses on the planet, and make Nikon have to stretch to keep up. Whether they will is another matter, as Canon seems to believe sports shooters want a crop camera, otherwise the 1D4 would have been FF. Maybe the 5D3 will get an AF/speed upgrade a bit, but I don’t count on it because they want sports shooters buying 7D’s and 1D4’s.

“It would make no sense to make another lame APS-H camera”

According to you David, please do not speak for others, we have been thru all this before, there are a lot of people who consider APS-H a good compromise for their purposes.

“People want something like the D700”

Please – “people”, people who? If they want it, they should buy it. There is no reason why Canon, or any other company, should compete directly with other manufacturers’ products. In many instances it makes more sense to claim own niche with a product rather than compete directly.

“The only gap not being filled by Canon is a full frame fast body, Canon doesn’t have one, not one, Nikon has two.”

Canon has 7D, Nikon doesn’t have it, Canon has 1D, Nikon doesn’t have it. It’s a sound strategy and there is nothing wrong with it.

Just please David, learn to speak just for yourself without speaking for “people”.

Not another line. In my mind this would be a consolidation of the 500D and 50D into one camera with a marriage of the ergonomics somewhere in between the two sizes.

Ugh… I agree with David, I want a FF fast body. I love my 5dII but it would be great with better af and fps. I dont want a 1.3 crop… crap if you really want a 1.3 crop make the camera like a d3 and have a built in crop mode. Also Nikon does have a 7d equivalent its called a d300 duurrr … oh and a 1d also … ahem D3. What the hell are you smoking michal.

hmmm… the internal baffle is a good point to consider, I don’t know how many lenses have them nor how strongly they impact the image circle.

Whether the lenses could take the square sensor or not I don’t see it happening… Photographers can be easily shied away from a camera that’s too “different” from what they have come to expect and be used to.

“Ugh… I agree with David, I want a FF fast body. I love my 5dII but it would be great with better af and fps. I dont want a 1.3 crop…”

It’s your preference and you are entitled to it, nothign wrong with it as long as you express only yourself and don’t pretend to spead for the masses like David does.

Im not but I would say the majority of people on POTN agree they would rather have better af and more FPS for their 5dII.

However, a 30.6×30.6 square would give about 8% more usable area than 36×24. Just going to a 4×5 ratio frame would give 5.5% more usable area. Though that doesn’t make for much extra pixels.

Bottom line, it ain’t gonna happen.

I’m blunt at times, and skeptical about certain jump on the bandwagon criticism trends in forums. Had you said you bought a defective 5D2 and returned it or sent it to Canon and got it fixed, I’d have believed it. Instead, you imply the 5D2 entire line is a piece of crap and you say Canon should “fix the previous model’s problems” and “put out a good product.” So I don’t believe you, or your story. This sounds like a lot of the jump on the bandwagon criticism’s by people who don’t even own the camera that give some cameras an unwarrented bad rap after it gets repeated adnausium in forums by people who don’t have it.

I have sitting right next to me two 1Ds3’s, one 5D2, and one 50D, which I’ve taken out on at least a hundred paid shoots this year (and a bunch of older models up on the shelf), and I use the 5D2 90% of the time. Next week I’m doing a shoot with two 5D2’s and a 7D (for the first time). I think your claim the 5D2 has aweful autofocus is BS. Maybe you got a defective camera, but I’m inclined to think you are on the ‘rag on the 5D2 AF bandwagon’ and suspect you’ve never used one given the sweeping claims you’ve made that Canon is not putting out a good product with that camera.

I never said the 1D4 would not sell. The 1D3 is only 10 MP, and many people need to upgrade to something that’s fast and higher MP. For many people they have no choice but to buy it with the APS-H sensor because Canon has no fast full frame cameras at all, so for some it’s buy the 1D4 or switch to Nikon, which for many people is just not a viable option.

As much as I don’t like the 1D4, I may have to get one as I have a potential video shoot in a rainforest and I don’t trust the 5D2 or 7D weather sealing enough. The 1D4 might be my only option if the job confirms. Hoping the 1Ds4 comes out before the rainforest shoot as I’d rather get the FF body, but like many people, I might not have a choice.

As for the many people I’m referring to, just do a forum search on “fast FF” and count all the other people who also want a fast FF body that Canon doesn’t make. In addition to that, many of my freinds and professional peers have said the same thing to me. If you don’t like that or want a APS-H camera, which I doubt you even have or will ever get, that’s your opinion and no one needs you telling anyone what they can or can not say in a comment, some I’m going to head off your attempt to censor me right here and tell you I’ll write my opinion whether you like or not.

It sucks for wide angle, very noticable on anything 24mm or wider, and it would be nice to not have that handicap on a $5000 body, in addition to the better noise and low light ability a FF sensor would provide.

Canon would have broadened the appeal of the 1D4 to more people had it been FF, it would have been a much more versatile camera, great for sports and PJ, but also weddings and events. I know several pros who will not get it because of APS-H, myself included, unless I have to.

What? Michal, you’re not going to accuse him of speaking for other people too? LOL There’s nothing wrong with people giving their impressions of what other people seem to think, or someone who follows a certain forum to state their view of what a concensus opinion might be. It’s their observation and it’s perfectly valid of them to have it and say it, no matter what attempts to censor them you make. There’s no risk for doing so either because there’s no opinion censorship police that are going to chase them down and beat them for it, and least not in America.

Agreed on every point.

btw, according to nikonrumors.com, Nikon is rumored to discontinue the D700 due to lack of sales…

people here whine about the 5d mark II and how slow it is. while people there complain about the d700 and demand more megapixels.

just to correct my self, “Facing the strong competitive pressure of Canon 5D Mark II, Nikon finally ceased production of their entry level full frame camera D700.” directly qouted from the website.

Remeber, this is a rumor only..

Not my fault you fail to comprehend basic english Michal. You twist my words all the time, take them out of context, and make them mean what you want them to mean regardless of what I said or meant or the context. You twist my comments from some people to mean all people, when it is obvious that is not what I said or meant, at least to those people who have normal reading comprehension ability.

David,

I have used the 7d and the 5d mk II in pooring rain without a problem so I don’t think that you will face any problems.

Three weeks of it though? Hot, high humidity, and rain. I have to have at least one 1080p camera I can count on to make it all the way through no matter what. So I’m considering a 1D4 as weather insurance. I’d really rather not, but it’s not a vacation, my client is depending on me to get the shots. I’d hate to be a week into it and say “sorry, my cameras are dead, we have to go back.”

no kidding. I think a few people here really need to consider switching to decaf.

It is worth repeating it: handicap on a $5000 body.

I think you need photograhy lessons. AF systems aren’t designed to lock on to smooth surfaces with no contrast. Focus on something on the same plane then re-compose. It’s an unfortunate effect of the advancement of digital cameras that the users actually forget how they work. Sorry to be blunt, but that’s how it is.

me too, but am not holding my breath, anyway there are alternatives and I won’t buy a camera without unless canon offers portable external screen without the complications of the WFT + PC + remote shooting software. Just directly plug in or connect wirelessly a handheld screen to your camera.

The Canon fanboys are whining about Canon produces no fast FF cameras, while the Nikon fanboys are whining about how Nikon only ever produce a bunch of 12 megapixel cameras (except their flagship D3x – but that is slowish too).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS-C#Multiplier_factors

Dear God, this place has become a shouting-match festival. It’s just cameras, people.

Listen:

– There’s a reason that the 1D is still the fastest DSLR out there. An APS-H mirror is just smaller & easier to move, and an APS-H sensor means less data to chew (for a given pixel density), and for video, less jelly. It’s going to be around for a long time I think.

– Personally I don’t give a toss about # of FPS as I shoot mostly landscapes and events (5 is really a bonus for me, my 10D was already good enough for me in this aspect). But there are a lot of other reasons why I’m really interested in this form factor. It’s the largest sensor doable with a single stepper pass in most fabs. I think the viewfinder size is really Good Enough. It’s a good compromise between “tele” and “wide”. The 1DIV’s IQ is really at the Good Enough for Just About Anybody stage.

I’m just wishlisting now, but the camera I really want is a single-digic 5 FPS APS-H no-portrait-grip body with a great viewfinder and real 1-series grade weather sealing. Basically a baby 1Ds.

The Rebel becomes the 9D.

Or, its called having choices on the line-up. There’s 1.6, 1.3, 1:1 for those that want it.

Oh, the FF is more expensive? Well, god forbid we get more sensor for less (or even same) money, right?

You’ve finally taken nesting to the final limits.

“They’ve gone plaid!”

You can always wait for the next new thing, but waiting to buy an actual camera that you can use today instead of a camera you’ve heard about from a rumors site that may possibly be announced next year strikes me as an odd way of doing things.

No camera can focus on a sheet of solid color paper at 2-3 feet away, and at that distance the focus point area is very small on the face, so you’re gonna need some major zits and deep facial flaws to get a focus lock. Maybe try focusing on the eye next time, not the cheek, the AF will work correctly and your shots will look a lot better in general. You probably had a defective body. It happens with every company and product to some degree. It just doesn’t mean one bad apple equals every apple is bad. The 1D4 will be a good camera. Just wish it was FF for $5000, but it will deliver great photos and hold up where other cameras can’t.

I think a digital large sensor twin lens reflex would be cool.

If only! So annoying Canon is still using the Rebel name, even Andre Agassi is retired now.

lol, I used them during 90 minutes of soccer match. for three weeks, I would suggest that you get a rain cover no matter what camera you take.

right back at ya, Tyson. Enjoy.

BTW, the 1D4 is an excellent camera for what it is designed to be, my only qualms are they could have made it a broader appeal without losing the sports base and a total Nikon D3/D700 stomper had they chosen FF, and they’ve left a gap in their lineup with no fast FF body, a camera that I would buy instantly, and from the sound of it, many others would too. I doubt it will happen, but at least a FF fast 3D would give us something. Have to work with what is for now though.

I’ve used my 5D2 in drizzle, not hard pouring rain, but had no trouble with it. This will be different, and way too remote to go pick up a new camera should it go down. Definately will take rain covers. I’m looking into renting the 1D4 for that shoot as I want to save up for the 1Ds4.

Canon doesn’t like a camera to have everything the lower models than it have (for example G11, the flagship compact, has a VGA movie mode while the cheaper SX20 has HD, and the S90’s f2 lens is faster than G11’s f2.8), if G11 had all the nice features of these other lower-end models, any of the following problems may happen:

* G11 would become too expensive, and then problem with its price compared to the Rebels.

* It could cannibalize the lower end models, buyers gravitating to one model and leaving the rest of the line-up is no good from a mfr’s PoV.

* It might make finding room for improvement in G12 more difficult for Canon.

Canon seems to be concerned about the above points in all their cameras except for 1Ds and 1D series which are going to be expensive anyway, it doesn’t matter if they cannibalize the lower models, they take a long time to update so no worries about room for improvement in their next iteration.

Yes, that is the question I want to raise. So what happens to the current lenses which don’t cover 35x35mm?

Tyson I cannot understand when you say “1.3 crop is not as perfect as a FF would be.” I have seen that 7D delivers as good images as 5DII in most situations barring high ISO.

has anyone else noticed what looks like a shutter sync issue when shooting in poorly lit indoor lighting with the 5D MKii? i get these weird dark bands on half of my picture many times only at high iso and indoor lighting. its almost an orange cast across my image and will often ruin a great capture. im thinking about sending to canon but i am overseas and my warranty is u.s. i would hate to lose my camera for that long if im doing something wrong or if it is just a fact of life. thanks for any input

make sure your firmware is up to date, if that doesn’t fix it you’ll have to send it in.

Square format camera:

I you want to use 36 x 24 “FF” lenses on a squera format, the maximum size that is cvered by the image circle is 30,59 x 30,59. The surface of such a sensor is only about 8% bigger than the 24 x 36 format.

30,59 x 30,59 = 935,7481 mm^2

24 x 36 = 864 mm^2

A square sized sensor that uses existing FF lenses makes little sense to me. Also, the camera had to be EVF, as I cannot imagine a mirror mechanism that would fit between the lens and sensor, maintaining the distance from sensor to lens.

If the sensor were 35 x 35 mm, it would need new lenses for sure, or use real medium format lenses (6 x 6 cm).

60D:

I belive there is a gap between the 50D and 7D that needs to be filled. I await an APS-C EOS 60D in spring 2010. Hopefully with less MP than the 7D and better per pixel sharpness, improved dynamic range and Digic V for real full HD video with pixel binning that results in perfect per pixel sharpness. Mabe a new video format, enabling better PP.

I’m with you but I may not have any choice but to bite the bullet. I need a FF camera for next wedding with very good ISO characteristics. The reason for FF is multiple but cringe at spening $2600 for this.

Canon has me by the short hairs on this one.

I just don’t buy that in any way. Canon’s noise reduction ability is far better than Nikon if you factor in the megapixel difference. Canon is basically delivering about the same noise levels as Nikon but with higher MP than Nikon across the board. D700 and 5D2 are relatively equal in terms of noise and low light, but the 5D2 gives you twice the MP. Same with the D300s (12 MP) and 7D (18 MP), same with the D3 (12 MP) and 1D4 (16 MP). So the myth Canon is not focusing on improving image quality, noise and low light is just total BS.

Just because Nikon fanbois refuse to consider MP as a component of image quality does not make them right. It is a valid factor as much as noise and ISO ability. You can bet if Nikon was matching Canon’s noise and ISO ability at twice Canon’s MP we’d be hearing a very different story from Nikon fanbois about how Nikon can make more MP and still match or best Canon in image quality – the fact is the reverse is true, yet Canon users are still stuck with their heads in the sands of shame believing Nikon is still better image quality when they are actually getting their ass whopped by Canon.

The only thing Nikon fanbois can say is “anything over 12 MP is too much.” That’s all they got, because the days where Nikon’s image quality is significantly better are gone. Personally I think Canon has bested Nikon in image quality with the 7D vs. D300s and 1D4 vs. D3s, all while delivering more MP in the process.

Well, the data shows otherwise. The Nikon bigger sensor is superior in low light performance. Period. You can argue whether that advantage is significant or not but that’s a value judgement. It’s a pure physics analysis here.

Having said that, I would agree with you that Canon has clever mathematicians busy creating fancy algorithms to hide noise and that their super duper Digic processors have all the power to run those algorithms. This supports my assertion that the objective is more pixels and then use clever algorithms to hide away the inherent noise that accompanies this. Nikon basically says – big photosites produce a cleaner picture and 12Mpixel is an optimal landing zone for quality vs resolution. THAT is the philosophy that I believe it best.

This is no different that the early Mega Hertz wars of the PC industry. More Megahertz calls for a longer instruction pipeline which in turn calls for fancy instruction scheduling tricks. At the end of the day, Intel was wrong and the Megahertz wars are over. Canon is producing the Pentium 4 of the sensor market. Nikon is producing the better sensor technology.

David – Completely agree but you turned the discussion now into what ultimately makes a better print. If that’s the point, I agree. Once you go into discussing what matter as a rendering medium like print, much of the noise issues get masked or hard to discern. For that matter, a 5Mipixel camera does just fine for average print sizes.

I’m not referring to DXO ranking. I’m referring to actual pixel peeping in shadows (yes, I pixel peep). I will look further into what DXO Mark is saying however. Even so, the point I’m making is about philosophy, not a specific camera comparison or analysis.

As your snarky “Enjoy your 12 MP’s” comment, no I don’t own a Nikon and in fact am a Canon shooter. Too bad the discussion ended up like that but appreciate the conversation.

hey guys. 2010 seems like a BIG THING! O.o i’m using a 40D(memories) now im deciding to get a FF 5D mk II for shooting weddings starting to learn up some skills. do think it’s a good idea for me to get it around next year march? or just wait? i jsut cant wait to feel the 5D mk II =]

5DII is a nice camera but the AF leaves a lot to be desired and you want it for weddings so make sure you won’t regret buying it b4 u do.

“Going from 16MP to 12MP will increase S/N by just under 2 stops.”

*facepalm*

Uh, have you noticed that the D3X currently has by far the highest DXOmark score of any DSLR? Its only fault is its price.

I’ve used two bodies on many weddings this ending year and I would love to have better AF in there.
Center point AF is quite good, but not as precise in low light, as on a 1-series camera (1DsIII for comparison). I hope the newer AF in a 7D indicates, that non-1-series Canons will eventually get better AF. The outer AF points are very often unacceptably inaccurate, if you’re using fast primes where misfocus is visible right away.
….please Canon…. do it!