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EVIL (Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens)
43rumors says they have it on good authority that Canon is about to release a Canonet GIII style digital camera with interchangeable lenses.
I haven't heard even a peep from anyone in a long time about this type of camera.
Source: http://43rumors.com/ft3-canon-giii/
Thanks Are
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What the fruit?
I guess that would be cool if they did. Though I doubt they’d use the Micro 4/3 lens mount as that wouldn’t corner you into buying Canon lenses.
That is the best acronym for a new camera technology I’ve heard in a while.
BS rumor
I have a Canon DSLR. If Canon doesn’t come out with an EVIL camera soon, i’m getting an Olympus PEN. Canon’s loss.
It’s already been discussed to death on numbers of occasions and opinions differ as to if it even makes sense for Canon to spend its resources designing a camera like that. I say bring it only but only if it supports EF or EF-S mount.
Oh, I have no clue what it does, I’m just saying, I mean, c’mon, “Evil”? That is just bad marketing. Why not call it GOOD. Or perhaps ANGELIC. Maybe even SPLENDIFEROUS.
“EVIL” is an acronym of a concept, not a marketing name.
Agree, Canon S90 and G11 would have been excellent models two years ago, now they can’t really compete on Image Quality agains mFT.
This Is what im Thinking a Half Frame Size
While the boom sparked by the “Canonet” had not quite cooled off yet, the “Canon Demi” camera was introduced in February 1963. It was a compact and lightweight half-frame, or single-frame, camera that permitted twice as many pictures per film. This camera was also a hit with its catch phrase “let’s draw our ‘Demi’ from our pocket.” Also released in October of the same year was the “Color Demi,” which was popular among users because it was available in three different colors: red, blue and white. With the debut of the “Demi” series, the variety of the lens-shutter cameras increased. The important thing was that the technologies acquired during the development of these 35mm lens-shutter cameras were fully fed back into the products that followed.
Based on direct sources from inside Canon Japan, this rumor is not true, Canon is working on perfecting the Rebels in terms of ease of use, compactness, Live View & Movie mode, the main attractions to mirrorless systems like m4/3, they may lose their prisms and OVF’s. There is also a fixed-lens Pro2 in the making and plans to consolidate the other high end Powershots (S90 & G11 will be replaced with one model, a bit lower end than G11 to give space to the Pro2 which will become the Powershot flagship).
Chuck Westfall talked about this YEARS ago:
http://www.dslrphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/Future_DSLRs.pdf
I am therefore not in the least surprised, especially since both Nikon and Sony have lost market shares to the m43 consortium.
I’d certainly like a G12 or S95 that was a mix of features from the two current models. The G-series are IMO unneccessary big and heavy while the S90 lack the swiveling LCD which don’t have to add much to the size. So, something slightly smaller, but as well built as G11 would be interesting. So keep the grip thickness of the G11, but make the rest of the body thinner and a bit lighter and I’d buy one.
As for the Rebels substituting for an EVIL-design with a new mount is a bit harder to believe. A Pro2 might sell well enough, but a fixed lens design + a Rebel with better Live View wont satisfy people looking for a really small system. And so far Canon haven’t been able to provide good AF-performance in Live View or video mode with Eos lenses. They really need a breakthrough to compete with the GH1 (and it’s replacement) in these areas.
lol its not even an acronym camera companies use, just those of us geeks that read camera rumor blogs use it to describe a new class of cameras.
this post is total BS, fanboi
I suppose they could redesign the rebel without the prism/mirror box and maybe make it small enough to compete with EVIL cameras. A “pro2” offers nothing to those who want interchangable lenses.
Why would you want a panasonic lens on your canon? Hopefully they will make a sensor bigger than m43, maybe something between m43 and aps-c, and design some good lenses for it with an ef/ef-s adapter.
interesting the component chart shows a VIDEO OUT from the Digic processor way back in 2006!
Removing the mirror is not consistent with maintaining compatibility with EF (and EF-S) lenses, because the Phase Detection AF (PDAF) of SLR’s needs the mirror. Also if the body thickness is to be reduced in order to make the camera more compact as in m4/3, then the flange distance becomes different (shorter) so EF lenses need adapter, in addition to their loss of mirror-dependent PDAF which means they won’t be able to autofocus the way they were designed to, (SLR lenses have heavy elements that needs to be moved by AF, PDAF has no problem with this but Contrast Detect AF of mirrorless cameras has and requires new lenses designed for specially it, Panasonic themselves were not able to make their old classic 4/3 lenses autofocus properly on their m4/3 bodies). In short, the camera you describe above is no longer an SLR, different from the Rebels as we know them and is actually an EVIL camera itself, not just “small enough to compete with EVIL”, it is too over-simplistic to think that we can take the reflex system out so that the camera becomes more compact but SOMEHOW we’ll still be able to use the same lenses, the camera will still be an SLR in spite of the removal of the reflex system, and we still ignore all the differences and call it the Rebel 550D or T2i.
No it’s just named after the Doctor that invented it
you made a suggestion very similar to what that post is claiming (compact Rebels by removing the prism and mirror) and then you say (total BS)!?!
Well I dont think you know if removing the mirror box would mean they could not make compatible with ef/ef-s lenses, and obviously it would no longer be a SLR, which this thread is about Canon making an EVIL camera not another SLR. Also, getting rid of PDAF could allow faster screen AF like on their camcorders/P&S’s. What I meant when I said it could comete with EVIL cameras is that it could compete with the other EVIL cameras, mostly the GH1 as it would not have the flat rangefinder-ish body.
BTW, I’m not saying Canon is going to make it, just that they could, and I don’t agree with your reasons for why you think it could not be done. I suspect they will make something between m43 and aps-c and new dedicated lenses with an EF adapter.
the author of the post claims direct knowledge of Canon Japan and I’m saying that is total BS. Also he claims the Rebel’s might lose their prisms, which is not what I said above if you actually read what I wrote. I said Canon could modify a Rebel to make a new class of EVIL cameras, not replace the Rebel with it.
He’s also bringing the pro2 back into the discussion which suggests this is the same guy that was posting as “new-nonym” who was advocating Canon will make the pro2 to compete with the EVIL market, and now he’s trying to pose as someone with authority from Canon to back up that silly idea.
Because it would be nice to have more options. Imagine if there was a universal lens mount for all DSLR’s. Though abandoning the EF mounts might for this not be the best idea either.
I plan on eventually buying on of these EVIL cameras with a pancake lens to always carry around with me in a pocket. Seeing Canon make one that’s compatible with my current lenses would be nice, though none of them are small enough to justify carrying around instead of my DSLR.
If Canon does this they need to make some pancake lenses, or else for me personally it wouldn’t justify a purchase. What’s the point of buying a tiny camera if it has a huge lens on it and doesn’t fit in a pocket? I’ll just carry my DSLR for that. What I want is a high quality point and shoot replacement.
what a load of unsubstantiated claims WRT everything from camera design to the japanese poster above to an unknown name you bring up. and what is the deal with “something between m43 and aps-c”, that is splitting hair and doesn’t make business sense for a company who already makes a smaller 1.6x version of APS-C, what are you suggesting 1.8x, slightly smaller than 1.6, headache of a new sensor size + extra R&D & production costs for no clear purpose!
It is true und it ist not m4/3!
small, fast and expensive, magnesium body.
sensor is from 7d.
starts with five lenses, two zooms, two ultrawide, one pancake.
looks like a bessa L, but smaller.
I buy Canon because of the lenses, their glass. If I wanted panny lenses I’d buy a GH1 or GF1. A universal mount is like communism, everything would become mediocre and compromised in a lame attempt to please everybody. I’ll stick with my Canon glass.
lol you people and you’re lame extra R&D excuses for why Canon can’t do this or that are so funny, like Canon is not raking in multi millions in profits every quarter, it would be easy for them to make another lens mount and sensor size to compete in the EVIL market – I think they will at some point no matter what you narrow minded nay sayers think. I’d love a APS-C sensor in an EVIL camera, but there are size issues, my suggestion is anything bigger than m43 which is a lot smaller than APS-C, and I could live with something in between them.
Because David want it, Canon has no choice but to do it!! but who is David and does he thinks he is so important?!¿
And no explanation whatsoever why should Canon introduce a new sensor size slightly smaller than their 1.6x!
I don’t know about the Olympus but the GF1 is reportedly selling very well with one large seller reporting that it’s the fastest selling camera they’ve had for years. Whether Canon introduce a high quality compact to compete with MFT or not is up to them but at the moment it looks like people are buying MFT fast. I have one.
There has certainly been a lot of noise lately about Canon developing a 2.5x crop sensor (as is Nikon). A lot less noise about what kind of camera it would go in.
Personally I really don’t think that Canon would go to all the trouble of bringing out a new lens mount in the current slack economic market. They’re looking to slash R&D expenses and promote existing designs to reduce operating costs. Introducing a new interchangable lens system when you already have two isn’t the way to do that; they’re clearly operating at capacity for new EF lens design introductions as it stands today.
A large(er) sensor compact would be a lot easier for them. The built-in lens would have to be mighty good to draw people away from the lure of μ4/3, however. At the very least, something like an equivalent 28-135 f/2.8 IS USM.
Oly & Pana did μ4/3 because it uses the same size sensor as normal 4/3, and normal 4/3 lenses are easily adaptable to μ4/3 without looking too ridiculous. EF or EF-S might be adaptable to a Canon EVIL camera as the AF protocol would in all likelyhood still be EF, but the diameter of an EF (or EF-S) bayonet would dwarf such a camera!
That’s right, Canon doesn’t lift a finger without consulting me, as I am your God tinky tinky…lol.
The explanation for a possible new sensor size is obvious to anyone with half a brain or more: a new Canon EVIL camera with a new line of lenses. You probably want tinky tinky sensor like the G11 has, much smaller than m43, which we would expect from you. I’d rather have a bigger sensor, and would immediately go buy an Olympus EP2 if Canon put a smaller sensor than m43 in a new EVIL camera. As I also said previously, I’d love an APS-C EVIL camera but they may choose to go smaller for size reasons. I was gonna tell you what I told Canon to make but now you’ll just have to wait, lol.
I would think they’d make it EF/EF-S compatible via an adapter.
Yes David, it is completely unusual for cameras to have “VIDEO OUT” to display still images.
They are not indended to compete with them, your comparison is invalid. They are cheaper P&S cameras and they are not positioned against PEN or other m43 gear.
S90 – $399.00
G11 – $449.95
PEN – $650.00
yeah I’m sure you see no connection to that and them making it record video off the Digic chip a few years later…
I think his point was until m43 EVIL cameras came out high end P&S shoot cameras like the S90 & G11 would have been seen as excellent for the size, where now the m43 cameras are a clear notch up in image quality over them.
No David, I do not. Canon 10D had composite video out, so what?
Yes David, please pay attention. They might be a clear notch up in the image quality also they are two nothes up in terms of price. Comparing two products that are clearly in different pricing categories does not make sense.
I don’t care if you find it interesting or not, your lack of imagination is not my problem.
Personally I would not put the S90 in the mix, but I think anyone looking at the G11 might very well consider the m43 cameras for a bit more. Sorry you are having problems making sense, must be tough for you.
no tinky tinky is meant to be a name of a language that you can understand, Teletubbies vocabulary that suits your comprehension & mental abilities. you think that a 1.8x sensor instead of 1.6x was imperative to keep the size down, you didn’t notice that the Ricoh GXR and the Samsung NX –both of which use a 1.5x APS-C, larger than canon’s 1.6x– are no bigger cameras than the smallest m4/3 to date (GF1), the relationship between sensor size and camera size is not as dramtic as you think… back to the Teletubbies, go watch an episode now.
Yes David, you are right as always. EVERYONE looking at G11 is also interested in an exchangeable-lens system and not a simple P&S. You are not only speaking for Canon now I see but also for all potential camera buyers. Well done David.
David, it’s not my lack of imagination that is the problem, the problem is that for some reason you cannot comprehend that “video out” does not automatically mean “moving video”, it’s simply “picture out”.
“GF1 is reportedly selling very well with one large seller reporting that it’s the fastest selling camera they’ve had for years”
Cite please.
You lost me at “sensor is from 7d.”
You still need to brush up on your english language skills as “anyone might” does not equate to “everyone.” lol
Where did I write 1.8x sensor? You made it up yourself and now you are attacking your own straw man, lol. All I said was a range I’d be happy with is m43 to aps-c, which would include 2x, 1.9x, 1.8x, 1.7x, 1.6x, and 1.5x which by the way, is also not the same as me saying Canon will make it, but given the teletubbies shows you watch I can see how english comprehension might be a problem for that tinky tinky intellect of yours.
Both the Ricoh and Samsung are fixed lens/sensor cameras by the way, but I hope they help prod Canon to make an APS-C sensor EVIL camera, just not going to hold my breath for that or your ability to understand anything beyond kindergarden level english.
Smoke a bowl dude, I’m not even going to bother explaining it to you.
He made the Pen for his mini-me
If in some alternate universe this actually happened, what makes you think Canon would stop making lenses? It would just mean you could use any brand lens you want on any brand body you own. It’s not like Acme Lens Co. would emerge with their sub-par lenses and all the other manufactures would fold. That just wouldn’t make sense.
Anyway, this will never happen, so it’s whatever.
If Canon comes up with a new mount, expect an adapter with hard circuit so that the current Canon lenses’s AF, IS and Aperture control works properly. Panasonic has that for their 43 lenses.
But also expect new lenses designed entirely around the new mount.
For instance, there is little to gain removing the mirror for the tele-lenses, which are probably Canon’s best lenses. the lense are not going to be much smaler, if at all, and the body is at that point just a detail.
…And I don’t see anyone willing to pay for a new 2.8/400 because of a new mount. I don’t see these lenses appearing first, even for the sake of prestige.
On the other hand, I’d expect Canon (to try) to score points in the wide angle department. Something they are not exactly known for.
lol yeah it’s never gonna happen, Canon is not in business to help us put other camera companies lenses on their cameras.
Good observations. Just a thought, given the crop factor on such a camera a 400mm equivelent might not be out of the question, though I doubt at f/2.8.
Quote Michael: “They are not indended to compete with them, your comparison is invalid. They are cheaper P&S cameras and they are not positioned against PEN or other m43 gear.
S90 – $399.00
G11 – $449.95
PEN – $650.00”
David got my point, you didn’t. Also, what do you know about my comparision? I can compare anything I’m interested in. A lot of people are interested and compare cameras between categories. I’d like the S90 size, I’d like the Pen Image Quality, and the G11 is in between. I might coose one of them so of course I compare them. The price is irrelevant to me in this price range.
Funny thing is, I STILL SHOOT on a classic vintage Canonet GIII! And it’s actually got some pretty bad ass specs even by today’s standards: 40mm f1.7 prime lens, Full Frame, small as hell, built like a tank, and with 35mm film, it’s packing as much if not more resolution than many of today’s DSLRs, heh.
That said, I shoot on a 5D2, 30D, and EOS3 too…
This is such BS. Typical 4/3Rumors fashion. Spit out a rumor, add up an old photo of something, anything and then plaster the update with Amazon links.
I can’t believe some of you actually take the time to start coming up with fantasy technical solutions and designs for such a camera.
Meh..
(oh yeah, RED is announcing another delay and price shock tonight, CET).
I hate switching systems. Used Pentax K gear exclusively from 1979 to 1996 when my frustration over Pentax lacking AF system and bad build quality made me jump ship to Canon EOS. I am now ready to jump ship yet again. This time because Canon just do not seem interested in supplying me with what I really need: Quality photographic gear in a compact package. The EF-S lenses are not good enough and Canon’s full frame gear is way to bulky and heavy. I am not 100% sold on Panasonic/Olympus since they are clearly targeting entry level buyers, but the minute I see some good primes in the pipeline I WILL switch system.
My dream scenario would naturally be if Canon brought a uEOS system to market much like the 43 / u43 combo. That way I could use my EOS glass with an adapter. But I do not see that comming. I think Canon will miss the train this time. Their loss.
Great point, why don’t you compare 1D versus PEN, makes just as much sense.
Any response starting or ending with a “lol” simply indicates that the poster has no logical or meaningful arguments.
There’s no logical reason to provide a meaningful argument to someone who doesn’t even understand what lol means…
…that comparison would be easy to do, and would illustrate why those of us who have a 1D might also want a PEN camera in our gear, of course it helps if one has english comprehension skills or even understands that the word comparison does not have the same meaning as equal, which aparently you don’t.
RED dashed my dreams of them being economical a long time ago…
Given what you’re looking for you may wanna head back to Pentax, that K7 is small, way more rugged and weather resistent then any m43 camera, and has a very nice selection of glass.
Yes David, you are right as always and as always the only “argument” you use is a meaningless personal attack. Well done David once again.
You dish it out but can’t take it coming back at you? If you’re going to start insults, which you did not me, don’t whine when your misuse and misunderstanding of the english language gets pointed out in return…
Yes David, right as always.
so typical of your many tired sarcastic insults
As a neutral observer just reading all these threads, I can clearly state Michal is a fool.
If you read photo forums (instead of just rumor sites), you can see people asking all the time “which should I get.”
If someone says those buyers just don’t understand the market, my reply is the buyers ARE the market. If people are looking at two options and spending money on only one, then those products are competing, regardless if photo snobs feel the products are competitive or not!
Cite please…
It’s what they said, and maybe they should know what they’re selling quickly…
oh if wildlife is your thing, rumor has it Pentax is coming out with a 400mm F/4.0, which in 35mm terms of their 1.5 crop is a 600mm 4.0, if it’s decently priced like the rest of their glass this could make their K7 king of the outdoor/wildlife DSLR realm.
I know I don’t speak for everyone but I do it all the time before I buy something, comparing products that are in different price ranges. I know they’re not the same but I’m thinking about whether to save a bit of cash on a G11/S90/LX3 or spend a bit more on the GF1. They cost more but m43 adds another option for buyers these days, an option that wasn’t there a few years ago.
So if m43 wasn’t around today, I’d get either a G11/S90/LX3. So Canon has a 66% chance of getting my money for my next camera purchase. But because of m43 Canon has less chance of getting my money.
Video out from the PROCESSOR not a plug. Learn to read dude.
While it is true film can give very high resolution pics. You need ideal situations and very good lenses to out do digital resolution. Not to mention a high resolution scanner (if you want that).
Right, so it automatically implies “moving pictures”, just out of curiosity – how would you label a processor output for displaying still pictures?
I don’t care what “they” said, “they” say all sort of things (just like David here), I’m interested in facts.
um, it’s a VIDEO OUTPUT…ie a VIDEO SIGNAL, as in NTSC or PAL, and oh guess what? It’s coming off the DIGIC chip, not the memory card via USB…you know, that same DIGIC chip that enables LIVEVIEW’s moving images on the LCD…but given your tinky tinky IQ I’m sure you still dont get it…
You wouldn’t know a fact if it jumped up and bit you in the ass…
Film has way more dynamic range and latitude than digital, it’s much more robust in less than ideal situations with the possible exception of extreme low light. My 30 year old Canonet easily gives low end DLSRs a run for their money, and that’s a fact.
I’d have to agree with you about film in good lighting and reasonable ISO’s, but my 5D2 smokes any film camera I ever had in low light, and while techically the DR might not be as good, I almost never notice it especially in RAW.
play nice guys. agree to disagree and please do not make personal attacks on a friendly website.
YES!
My Crackpot Theory
Remember every G11 rumor said it would have a bigger sensor. EVERY SINGLE ONE. what happened? the G11 came out and had the same size sensor and nobody said anything. is this what people were talking about. has canon been working on a camera, and printed G11 on it to throw off spies?! How did every source get the G11 sensor size wrong?
What’s your crackpot theory?
I was very disappointed with the G11. They finally added the LCD swivel, which the lack of kept me from buying the G10/G9 amoung other things, but I expected at least 720p video, preferably 1080p, and a bigger sensor not a drop in MP down to P&S sizes. It’s a classic case of what happens when Canon abandons their traditional design principles of giving us more and listen to the tiny sensor lower MP crowd that’s been bashing Canon for giving us bigger better faster more sensors every time. The result is a camera that even Canon admits is not selling as well as expected compared to the S90.
I agree.
I care more about pixel density than pixel count. low density = low noise and I tend to work in low light. all I care about is a big sensor. nothing more than 10mp is necessary… but I hear where you’re coming from.
I agree.
I care more about pixel density than pixel count. low density = low noise and I tend to work in low light. all I care about is a big sensor. nothing more than 10mp is necessary… but I hear where you’re coming from.
Had they gone with a much bigger sensor I could live with 10 MP, though I’d prefer 14 MP in that camera, it just seems like rather than innovate they just dropped the MP way down and cleaned up the noise a bit. Bigger sensor for good noise/low light, back to 14 MP, up the VGA video to HD, and I might have bought one, at least as a temp cam until I find an EVIL camera I want.
I agree 100%. I take my 40d every where, and I don’t want to look like a guy with a fancy camera every time I go to take a shot. I want to look like everybody else, taking pictures just for fun.
did you see the article about the “open source” camera? they call it a frankencamera and it’s only a research project at a university. basically you can put any kind of softwear in it. say you want HDR pictures all done in camera. put the program in the camera and bingo. I like to think of the idea as an “App Camera”. all those weird settings some cameras have and some don’t. well you could pick and choose the ones you want. the sky’s the limit. I hope Canon figures this out. the have something primitive with Picture Styles. I’d love a double or triple exposure App and a Build Your Own Curve App. make a curve like in photoshop and it will apply it to the photo. oooo a Tri-X 400 App! Apps that mimic certain brands of film IN CAMERA. well now I’m just rambling. what Apps would you like?
I love the frankencamera! That thing is ugly as sin and sure to get more attention than your 40D though ;)
Apps? Gimme Doom, Quake, Dragon Age: Origins, Avatar, Grand Theft Auto IV, Halo 3, and Resident Evil 5, for a start.
Now it makes sense – we are a software company that was greatly disappointed with the G11 because all the computer connectivity functions (remote live view while leaving camera controls active, remote access to zoom and exposure control etc.) of the G10 was just plan shut off in the G11. That left a gaping hole that the could not be filled the SLRs with live view. We could no understand why Canon would take a big step backwards and thought we will have to keep buying G10s until we found other technology or manufactures that would get back what we lost. Well if the rumors of the EVIL are true and they bring back the computer controls that would be the answer to our dreams. We are preying that this happens.
There are just way too many advantages to digital for film to have more than a minor utility today. Just switching ISO mid-role was a huge pain with film cameras. And the cost savings over 50,000 shots is enormous, allowing small budget photographers to experiment a lot more. Film can be a useful back-up if you’re going canoeing for a couple of weeks, and a few other applications like that.
I would love an APS-C EVIL with a 30mm pancake. A Canon version of the Samsung NX10.
It’s only a matter of a year or two before one of these comes out that will interest me enough to put a $1000 on one.