The Evolution of the Powershot G
I received an email that Canon does indeed have an APS-C sized sensor “G” camera being tested/developed.
Test Camera Specs
15.1mp CMOS 1.6x Crop
3x Zoom (24-70 IS, no speed information)
3″ 920k LCD
ISO 100-3200
DIGIC V
SD Card
1080p HD Movie Mode
Body is slightly larger than the G10
New Battery
No Viewfinder (Flash shoe VF?)
Flash Shoe
We know a CMOS based G series camera with a larger sensor is coming. The source said we may not see this type of camera until Photokina 2010.
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72 Comments
Looking forward to see it. :)
might the lens be interchangeable like the Olympus EP-1?
Would be good…
Interesting. I guess it’s a direct fight againts pannie lx3; however, just like the tz series, Canon is a year behind. Now, if they can include good flash with the camera, it would be worth looking into. My only problem is, lx3 is out for a year (when this comes out), and unless this is priced below lx3 (ie $350, not the typical $499), I don’t know how popular it will be.
Seems like another “wishlist” of specs ripped off from other models. If it’s one thing that has been common with Canon mid range cameras, they have all been crippled in one area or another. This one is not, it has the best of everything that can be expected at this level
24-70 IS…sounds familiar? Like I said, a wishlist… -_-
The LX3 is something like 24-60. So a 24-70 appears to be logical.
As does using a current sensor. The 15.1mp sensor would keep production costs down.
There may be some wish here, but Canon must have something like this on the horizon. Someone else will steal their dominance in P&S’s if they don’t.
I hope it’s not too much larger than the G10 and has interchangeable lenses. Would be so nice.
if this is true, then i can finally replace my SD400.
sometimes i have no need or its impractical to carry my 40D or mkIIn
FYI: The earliest this camera will be released is when the new CMOS chip factory is up and running.
There’s no way Canon has production capabilities to produce a sub-$400 APS-C size sensor in the volumes required by a P&S on steroids. Also, unless this thing is TINY, there’s no need for such an expensive sensor on a fixed zoom camera.
“slightly larger than the G10” I would use massively larger.
i’m looking forward to see some frikin lenses ffs
every week at least 2 messages about cameras
where are the news about some serious lenses like a corner to corner sharp wideangle (like nikon did), the 200is macro or the 100(200)-400 is?
canon is getting lazy on building new lenses and flood the market with more and more crap bodys
i already got my camera i need some new lenses to take advantage of the high resolution.
Based on no expertise whatsoever, I call BS on this one. The problem is the 1.6x sensor in a camera that is not much bigger than the G10. Methinks that a sensor which requires an image circle 400% or more larger than the one in the current G10 would also require a body that was more than “slightly larger”.
Keeping the 24-70ish range while increasing the sensor size to APS-C seems illusionary to me. Unless the body grows as big as a Leica.
The Olympus EP-1 (sensor size : micro 4/3) is already as large as a G10 :
http://www.flickr.com/groups/d40slr/discuss/72157619746468637/
I agree with Dave.
G-MOS APS-C 15MP. Just get a 500D/T1i already. This G-MOS will be large with the zoom lens.
To make it ‘compact’, take the 500D remove the viewfinder and shutter/mirror assembly, ala u4/3.
Practical or not, i still like new gadgets. But Canon is just getting slower to the game.
Two of the things that the G10 has in its favour over the LX3 are its integral viewfinder and 140mm at the zoom end. But the LX3 has size in its favour (but 60mm at the zoom end sucks big time).
So Canon are going to take two of the G10’s advantages and ditch them, while further making the G even less pocket-friendly? Good luck to them.
I doubt this camera, even if those specs are real, would see the volumes that the Rebel line does. And why wouldn’t they share the same sensor?
Also: It’d be awesome, but this probably isn’t going to be sub-$400, not for a while anyway.
I honestly don’t see all that much problem. Remember the film days? All 35mm cameras were “full frame”, and the compacts weren’t all that much bigger than the G10. And that’s with a image circle significantly bigger than APS-C.
That will be great. There’s no need for any holiday zooms anymore. You get good quality street and landscape images with this one. DSLR then only necessary with fast lenses for low DOF. You could, for example, put the 50-150 2.8 onto the DSLR and have the G11 in the pocket additionally for walking around.
No proprietary battery! Standard AA batteries please!!!!!
24-70mmm! HOLY!
1.6x 15 MP ISO 3200 SENSOR? HOLY GOD!
If this is true, than I would have TWO pocket cameras with me all the time: the G10 and this “G-Mos”
G10 for daytime and “G-Mos” for night time :)
Hej, the price will hurt, and no viewfinder is really bad.
Also even if it will for sure rock at high ISO, it won’t be much smaller than a small DSLR or oly new pen, so what’s left in its favor ? It’ll have to stay priced as the G10 and have extremely good IQ to find its place.
Have you used the G10 viewfinder? It’s almost pointless. All the shooting info is around the LCD anyway. Oh, and it’s 2009.
If it can deliver decent ISO 800 I will buy this camera. Poor mid-high ISO held me back on the G10.
It doesn’t need interchangable lenses. It’s a compact! Though if it’s much larger than a G10 it will be called the Rebel mini.
The problem is the lens. The compacts usually had 35 or 40 mm lenses with a modest maximum aperture, or normal zooms with a small aperture.
24-70 viewing angle on APS-C would mean it has to have something like a 15-44 mm lens. It would be at least as large as the Olympus E-P1 kit zoom.
I agree that the G10 VF is no match for a DSLR, but it does help composition in bright sunlight when LCD screens can become washed out. Hell’s teeth, I even use the VF on an Ixus at times.
And if it is f/2.8, probably the size of a Leica M8 somehow coupled with a EF-S 17-55/2.8.
The problem with AAs is that they last about 2 minutes on a ps. Imagine what they’d be like on a G-MOS beast-o-mat? You’ve got to go proprietary if you want it to last. Leave the AAs for externals flash units. You can’t just carry around twenty AAs either, because that defeats the purpose of a smaller camera.
Looks like we need two cameras here. A G10 type with a small body and less expansive spec set, and a larger range finder. The G10 is not a pocket camera – way too big (what kind of pockets do you guys have, anyway?). A good pocket camera would be great. But if you’re going to make the thing bigger, you might as well make an $800-$1000, interchangeable lens, rangefinder (with glass VF).
The spec wish lists I’m reading on this page really do seem torn between two different cameras.
Now let’s talk about quality… A rebel Xti has better image quality than an M8. By far. Make some good lenses for a canon rangefinder and through on a rebel sensor and processor and you’ve got a great little camera.
The cameras like the G10 are so good, that I wonder if a larger format rangefinder at $900 would sell.
People who understand the benefits of larger sensors are a tiny few compared to those who want and see benefits to small camera size. I’ll have to wait and see before passing judgement.
Are you kinnding? i can shot more than 200 pictures with my A710IS (stabilised P&S), running with 2 AA rechargeable batteries (2500 mAh Varta… of course you should use good quality).
So what about camera like SX1IS , using 4 AA??? more than 300 shots…
The only difference with proprietary batteries is size: at equal power, AA batteries are slightly bigger. This is a big issue with ultra-compact P&S, but for high quality compact digicam, it’s not a problem, because those products technicaly cannot be so small (bigger lens, sensor and handgrip that can include the batteries).
About Alcaline batteries, sure they die very fast, but anyway it’s usefull as “emergecy replacement” because you can find them anyhere.
4xAA good quality batteries cost about 15 euros … what about a proprietary battery? for 15 euros, it’s not a problem to have 1 or 2 extra pack for replacement and HUGE autonomy.
Moreover, what will you do when you’ll have your 600$ high quality compact digicam in your hand, in 3 or 4 years, still a very good cam, but with your dead proprietary battery… when Canon will not sale any more replacement battery?
With a AA compatible digicam, no problem, you can go to any
supermarket and find replacement batteries, Now, in 4 years, in 10 years…. Do you buy a 600$ digicam to put it in the rubish bin in 4 years? me no… at least i sell it or give it to another person if i want to buy a newer one one day.
Last but not least, if you use only electronic devices that ask standard batteries, you can have only 1 charger for all your devices, and share your batteries between devices (flashlight, digicam…)
For all those reasons, i would not buy any camera that is not compatible with standard batteries! especialy and expensive and high lever camera…. proprietary stuff is just good for gadgets!
I think this is excellent news (if is true). No problem if is a little bigger than the G10, still a lot more compact than a DSRL… I just wish that for an optional EVF like the GX200…
That would be cool. Sounds like a fixed lens camera being it’s a G series. I’d think a EP-1 type would be a whole new line rather than replace the G10. I do hope Canon makes something like the EP-1 with a APS-C sensor and compatible with EF-S lenses just to slam Oly and Panny back down, hehe. Can you imagine? They just have to make the body and they’d have a whole lens line already in place where the other guys are having to start with only two or three lenses.
Good point, Gene. I do remember a nifty little Canon SureShot Classic 120 with a 38-120 lens. It wasn’t much (if any) bigger than a G10. Since the max aperture of the lens on this new camera wasn’t specified, it would seem possible. On the other hand, expectations have increased since some of these small film cameras were introduced. I’m not sure the lenses on them would hold up to scrutiny in 2009.
Having said all that, I’d love to own one if Canon can do a good job with it.
The reason they would share the sensor is that the APS C sensors are produced in extremely high quantity and would not add any development cost to the camera. It would also have better light sensitivity than the smaller 4/3 sensor. The size of the lenses, if they are interchangable would be a issue, they could be made slightly smaller, but larger than the DP-1.
Hopefully, it has a viewfinder and flash. I am doubtful that using a lcd in bright sunlight is the way to go for a $900 camera. A rangefinder might be nice, but not practical for a camera that uses interchangable lenses unless some electronic link is provided to make it work for different focal lengths.
AA Batteries would be a plus. Lithium Ion batteries are expensive when built properly with good QA, and potentially dangerous when corners are cut.
I’ll buy one IF and ONLY IF it has a tilt-n-swivel LCD (not seen on the G-series since the G6, tho I don’t know why).
With that, this would be a great waist-level camera. I’d happily pay $900 (US) for it.
Without tilt-n-swivel, forget it.
200??
I get well over 8gigs of stuff or 2000+ photos out of my duracell rechargables with my A710IS!
Cheap of the counter AAs might give me around 200 with some flash, but more likely around 400.
+1
I’m sure they’re working on something (unless they’re incredibly stupid) but I imagine the problem would be the lens design. Oly did a neat trick with their colapsable zoom, but with a bigger sensor everything gets even bigger and then you’re already in DSLR territory. Canon being Canon I can’t see them cannibalizing their 1000D sales with something like that.
I dont see how it would cannibalize the 1000D or any SLR sales. It would be a Liveview only body shaped like a rangefider like the EP-1. Call it a travel cam with interchangable lenses, it’s going to appeal to those wanting something between DSLR and G10, or those just wanting retro style. Up until now the only option was the way too expensive Leica M8 at $3000, and Oly just showed you can have that for a lot less. I hope Canon makes something like it.
I’d take it with a rangefinder attachment and hotshoe for a flash. Perhaps the new OLED displays will be better in daylight. Anyway, it would be a cool retro style camera, not a DSLR replacement or do everything camera.
I hate AA cameras. Why do I want to spend money on batteries (much less the toxic waste factor from throwing them away) when I can recharge a battery? Makes no sense to save a few bucks on development/manufacturing cost when you’re going to spend it anyway buying AA’s all the time.
I would have brought the G10 if it had HD video. The lens was right on the G10 28mm to 140mm. It was an all purpose lens for everything but no HD video.
Now for the G11 if they put a max zoom of 70mm, it lacks the zoom range of the G10 of 140mm.
The G11 would be nice if the had the same G10 lens of 28mm to 140mm and just added HD video.
Don’t forget the existence of rechargable AA batteries! ;)
Sounds fishy to me too, but I hope it’s true.
a camera like this would generate a heap of publicity and reasonable sales.
Hopefully enough sales to pay for itself.
24-70mm please don’t. Or at least make a camera that will be a worthy successor to my G7. I’d buy SX200 right now, but it has no exposure bracketing.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but the Pannie LX3 has a 24MP/cm^2 density. That’s way more than this purported Canon. I expect that the Canon would cost significantly more too, so it seems like the new Oly Pen or the Sigma DP2 would be competing with this…..if it ever exists….
Tilt & swivel is high on my wish list for such a camera as well. It would be a huge plus.
of course we are talking about rechargeable AA battery.
Alcaline AA battery is just for exceptional use…. when you forgot your charger and your batteries are low…
Don’t those have memory issues? Do the rechargable AA batteries last as long? I seem to remember you get fewer shots than alkalines. I’d still prefer rechargeable lithium-ion NB-4L’s.
no, reachargeable AA lare more powerfull than alcaline AA.
I said “MORE THAN 200 shots”… because everything depend what is your use: flash, zoom, on/off the digical for each picture or keep the digicam ON. Bob said he can shot 2000 pictures with rechargeable AA… it’s certainly possible with low use of flash and zoom. Is your proprietary battery SO much better to justify it’s non-compatibility, optimised size and huge price?
why the 404
Comparisons to film camera sizes and lenses don’t quite work here. It’s the same issues that Leica is dealing with in the M8 and soon the M9. Digital sensors are like mirrors. They don’t work very well when the light is coming from an angle, certainly not as well as film does. To get a big image circle in a compact, the image circle is projected “wide angle” with extreme angles on the edges and corners.
Leica couldn’t go full frame in the M8 because of the way digital sensors like perpendicular light and can’t do the angles that film can. They went to a 1.3 crop and added microlenses to the sensor to bend the light more perpendicular to the image plane. For that reason, you can’t just stick a stock APS-C sensor in a mirrorless compact.
If you just stuck an ‘S’ lens on this thing, you would have to match the distance from the rear element to the sensor with the larger SLRs which use a mirror. It wouldn’t be any smaller. They would have to design new lenses for an APS-C compact. I don’t think micro 4/3 lenses can currently cover that much area.
Even the Sigma DPs don’t have a full APS-C sized sensor, and they have fixed prime lenses designed for that sensor at that distance.
AA batteries??? What an awful idea! I’d much rather keep the lithium ion cells than have to change AA batteries all the time. And rechargable AA batteries have way less capacity the the lithium packs. No thanks.
That’s completely untrue! Alkaline AA batteries have several times the capacity than rechargeable do. But I’m against AA batteries of any type in cameras. The lithium packs have much more capacity than rechargeable AA batteries do and cost much less over time that using disposable AA batteries. AA batteries are BAD idea!
Yep. I tried rechargable AA a few years ago, it was aweful and I vowed never to buy another camera that uses AA. The lithium packs are wonderful, no memory, long lasting, and a good deal over the life of the camera.
Everything depend the quality of your rechargeable AA batteries. If you buy low cost batteries, whatever how many mAh are specified on the package, of course you got something unusable. But if you choose carrefully your batteries (ex Varta 2500mAh), i certify you got much more power than any alcaline non rechargeable battery, and not so much less than a good LI-ION battery.
You also need a good guality AA charger… if you buy a low end charger, it won’t charge efficiently your batteries, so of course you cannot get good autonomy.
Digicams like Canon SX10IS or SX1IS (not low end cams…) use 4 AA batteries (rechargeable or not, you choose), and they have absolutly no problem of autonomy. The only bad point is that 4 AA is bigger than an equivalent Li-Ion battery (equivalent in power), but is it really a problem when a good handgrip give enough place in the digicam for the 4 AA?
I bought the best AA’s at the time – Varta I think it was. It wasn’t a cheap setup at all. I also used them in my flash and they did not last as long as good alkalines, not even close. I would not buy the SX10IS or any other that uses AA. Li-ion and charger are not much more expensive than how much I spent on rechargable AA’s.
believe what you want…but you can also look at Canon datasheet:
http://www.canon.fr/for_home/compare_products/loadcomparator.asp?prod=2663B002AA;2665B002AA;&lang=FR&country=FR&dir=/for_home/product_finder/cameras/digital_camera/powershot/
– G10 with proprietary li-ion battery: 400 shots
– SX10IS : with provided non rechargeable battries: 340 shots, with Canon rechargeable AA (certainly not the best on the market) : 600 shots
all measured according to the same CIPA standard!
but you’re comparing shots made from two different cameras…. clearly not a valid comparison. Personally I prefer proprietary Li-Ion batteries because they are simple to use and are bundled with camera and charger, I also have not had any life issues with them, unlike the NiMh batteries I use in my flashes. Also most of these batteries cost $50 at generic retailers, around $35 if you deal hunt on the internet. considering a rechargable battery AA set, with charger and batteries costs around $30, I would rather take the ease of use with charging two batteries with the same small charger.
You know, just because the name Canon is stamped on a camera it doesn’t make it instantly better right? I actually think the m4/3’s folks have an advantage when it comes to these kinds of cameras. 4/3’s IQ is good enough, and the smaller size is a real bonus. Plus, that Oly E-P1 is one sexy little camera. Canon hasn’t made a camera that purty this decade.
And I don’t care about EF-S lenses on cameras like this. First off, Olympus’s 4/3’s lenses blow away Canon’s EF-S lenses. Secondly, both are too large for them to be practical. New lens lines ups are needed for these cameras…preferably in the pancake variety a la Pentax.
yeah exactly Zac! SX10IS is only 10MP and 2.5″ LCD where the G10 is 14.7MP and 3″ LCD, so of course the G10 will eat more battery juice. Not a fair comparison.
This is a “Canon” rumor site, so guess what we’re talking about here? lol
I think the E-P1 is cool. I’m not gonna buy one as buying a whole new line of lenses just for that makes no sense for me. But something like it, that took EF-S lenses that I could also use on a 50D (or maybe a 60D if it’s worth upgrading for), makes WAY more sense for me. As for Oly’s 4/3 lenses blowing away EF-S…HAHAHAHA…we’re not talking about 21MP FF 1Ds3’s or 5D2’s (or a 50D, lol) it’s a $800 12MP MICRO 4/3 camera for peet’s sake. Comparing it to the G10 image quality is more fair.
As for size, we’re talking about a mirrorless APS-C (chop the top-prism off a Rebel and tighten it up a bit with some retro rangefinder style and it’s done) so the size of the EF-S mount could easily work on a E-P1 style of body, maybe slightly taller but really who cares about that if its close?
BTW, there is a Oly rumor site for those who want m4/3…43rumors
The E-P1 isn’t a pocketable camera either so we’re not really talking about it being a compact like a Powershot or something. Perhaps a APS-C version would be as deep as a Rebel, but you could lose the top prism, dials and bulky hand grip, give it a polished aluminum retro rangefinder style body it wouldn’t be that much bigger than the E-P1.
Canon could pull a “Pen” and point to the “Canonet” like the GIII QL 17 (the old “Poor Man’s Leica”), 35mm rangefinder with a 40mm 1.7 lens.
…WHICH BTW, was 120 x 75 x 60 mm in size – the Rebel XTi is 126.5 x 94.2 x 65mm with its bulging top prism and hand grip, so we’re not that far off already.
Yep, I know. I read that one two. Since the digital era begin I’ve owned a Canon G2, a Pentax K100D, Pentax K10D, bought my mother a Sony A200, and I currently shoot a Nikon D200. My next camera will either be a 5D Mk II or the Oly E-P1. I’m not trying to offend you by saying good things about other brands, a logo on the camera doesn’t mean a thing to me. But the simple fact is no one brand makes the best of everything. I don’t understand why anyone would wait around for Brand A to make the camera that Brand B already makes. I’d prefer to reward the innovative company with my business.
I also don’t know why you put the 50D IQ so high up on a pedestal. It’s perfectly good, but Oly’s new 12mp 4/3’s sensor more than holds its own against it. And both are in a different league the then G10. The only reason the G10 is even mentioned in the same breath as the E-P1 is because it’s close to the same size. Besides, we’re talking about glass, not image sensors. It’s a fact that Oly has been the most innovative lens maker the last 5 years (but of course they had to be since they created a new format from scratch).
If you want to put a lens as large as the Canon 17-85mm onto a camera body as small as the E-P1 then you’re more than welcome, but to me it makes absolutely no sense to put large lenses on a tiny camera body. New lenses actually designed for this kind of camera are needed. Not something shoehorned and retrofitted.
I’m not bashing other brands. But hello? CANONRUMORS is clearly about future *Canon* cameras, and yes, that’s a logo thing, but that’s what this site is about. What do you think this Canon Rumor site is about? Olympus? Every manufacturer out there? HAHAHA
If you want to buy lenses from 4 and now maybe 5 different manufacturers, have at it! Own them all if you can. Pick the E-P1 over a 5D2, why not? HAHAHAHA whatever clicks your shutterbug.
Olympus has some innovative lenses. Some. The list of what they don’t make is much longer. You’re also stuck with 2X crop factor, no FF, and for those the great lenses, only average bodies at best.
BTW…great lenses are only as good as your sensor, and frankly the micro43 images are just ok – I’m not impressed.
I would love a Canon digital rangefinder! I was just getting into photography as these were phasing out. They seem like such interesting photographic instruments.
http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?CanonCanonetGIIIQL17.html~mainFrame
Also, since the Canonet was designed for 35 mm film, a digital rangefinder built around an APS-sized sensor could be smaller.
I hope the E-P1 is tremendously successful and defines a market. The success of the E-P1 would support Canon entering the market with its own digital rangefinder.
I’m sure by eliminating the mirror/prism and other SLR-ish aspects a fairly compact APS-C body could be made with the retro rangefinder style. Whether Canon does or not is another matter. I’d personally love it if they did. Not all of us are m43 fans. And they have a whole two lenses for the E-P1 (14-42mm and 17mm F2.8 Pancake) oh boy.
Make it EF-S, I’d stick a 17-85MM f4-5.6 IS USM (28-135mm) for standard zoom, round it out with a 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM (16-35mm) and 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS (88-400mm) and it’s nice little fun pack. Add a few new EF-S primes with a pancake and it’s quite a little system. And I could let my daughters use them on my 50D too.
My 4 Duracell 2650mAh cost me around 20USD. They can hold a near full charge for over 6 months. With flash they’ll last a good 1000+ shots (though the camera has a very very slow fps when using it). They’re charged with a slow charging cheap-o charger (15 bucks) which takes 15-20 hours for a full charge. The 30min chargers that are available will kill your batteries after a couple of cycles. Check out candlelight forums for more info. Alkalines, of various brands, give me a fifth of the shots.
@ David, yeah it’s not a fair comparison since the SX10 also has an EVF while the G10 only has an optical one and also a much larger lens (extends more during each start up, i.e consumes more juice). The cipa standard also dictates a 50% flash usage. I don’t know the rating on the respective flash units but I don’t think they’re identical.
I think the people wishlist is changing the rumor.
It’s about the new G camera and not about digital rangefinder or small interchangeable lenses camera. Nothing about new lenses system or super compact camera.
The G10 is already a great camera, if Canon can make the next G camera with APS-C sensor it would improve a lot!!!!!!! Is it not enough?
I want a Canon M-style Leica. Small silent FAST and unobtrusive.
I have a G-9 and it is slowish but has great lens quality and PORTABILITY. The G-10 is wider yes, but I want the old film LEICA SHOOTING SPEED and PERFORMANCE. So APS-C should fit the bill with the EF-S mount. A small zoom similar in size to the Pentax Normal SMCP-DA 40mm f/2.8 would enhance the portability
PS: As a rumor site, anyone who responds IS HOPING TO HAVE SOME INFLUENCE TO CANON. The Rumors are talking points for SOONER OR LATER. They are great if soon and may influence purchase decisions in the short term. If later, to influence design. What else the purpose of the Internet?
It is the hope beyond hope, that Canon listens to more than just their 10 STAR paid contributors for feedback. Canon is too much the Wizard behind the curtain and less as Bill Gates wrote in “Business at the Speed of Thought,” easy to communicate with market leader. Heck, Microsoft never learned the Bill Gates Lesson.
Eric banana
Hello there,
instaed of fighting about mos and cmos and aps-c crap, grab a nikin fe-50/1.8 or a similar canon film camera and go out and shoot film. Great colours, dr, vf and so on.