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HDSLR w/Raw Video?
In my inbox, as well as posted on Planet5D (not sure which came first). There is apparently a full frame dSLR being tested in Europe that can shoot RAW video.
Could the camera be the upcoming 1Ds Mark IV or early testing of the 5D Mark III? I've been told previously that the 1Ds4 would have video features currently not available in any Canon dSLR.
The 5D Mark III is starting to get whispers around the web. From myself as well as others. I won't be posting much at this time about such a camera until regular sources start to say something. The camera could come as early as Photokina in September, but I'm still wagering on a 2011 release.
1Ds Mark IV Release Date
Everything has been quiet about a concrete launch date. There also hasn't been any new word on lenses. Going by past experience, this is the calm before the storm.
From Planet5D
cr
RAW VIDEO? could you imagine the amount of data it would involve? CR-12: seriously ridiculous rumor.
im from canon germany… i can say it is true.
RED shoots RAW video. Why can’t a Canon?
“Lenses: Be patient, they’re coming. :)”
And now all of a sudden no info anymore?
I’m from Canon Mars…me too I can say its true!
No new info, I don’t want to recycle stuff I posted 2 weeks ago.
Thx for the info Canon Rumors ;)
Makes sense for a feature like this to appear in the 1Ds Mark IV. That is supposed to be a premium camera with premium features, though that hasn’t always been the case in the model’s history.
Even at close to $8k a piece, these could still be immensely popular among indie film makers, maybe even with higher end productions. Less popular, sure, comparing a 5D Mark II at $2.5k, but with the right feature set it could still be a HUGE win for film makers.
…and I am Santa Clause from the northpole. If you are from Canon Germany, what is true? All of the rumor? That would not make sense at all.
Can someone enlighten me about the wonders of raw video?
What lenses?
Same here. What’s it good for?
RAW video is not unexpected especially if you’ve visited Nikonrumors.
Im from Canon World..its the new XXd dslr. As said before Canon wants xxd to be more of a video capable camera then the xd or 1 line dslr. They just put everything on T2i/550d and made it 7Ds little brother so only thing left is a FF so why not a FF on xxd body. So here it is folks.
;)
From what I have read -the guys over at Nikon Rumors expect an awful lot!
As a Red One camera owner, I can tell you it is one thing to output 1080p 8bit H.264 footage to a CompactFlash card using line skipping off the full resolution sensor to get there (with all the attendant problems such as moiré etc that shooting a VDSLR like Canon involve). It’s quite another to get 14bit, full resolution RAW imagery from that same sensor.
Even if they implement it as some variant of SRAW, it’s not likely to come anywhere near Red’s quality any time soon. Not without some major form factor changes to cope with the processing power needed and the heat generated by the sensor itself, not to mention recording media etc. I could see it in a video camera style body purpose designed for it, but not a VDSLR.
I’ve got no issue with Canon video per se (I own a 7D and use it occasionally for video) but RAW is a whole new level….
Prove me wrong Canon ;)
Same advantages as RAW stills. It’s kind of obvious, but I guess someone had to say it.
@Visceral Psyche
In your last prove me wrong imagination when was the last time you thought there would be a video on a DSLR and it would surpass the way it shoots then a camcorder. You never know what Canon has with this rapid technology.
Could I imagine? Sure. It’s all doable with current tech. (Bear in mind that “RAW Video” does not mean 20MP+ CR2-format frames being rattled off at 30 frames per second.)
What would make it easier to manage is the addition of something like an eSATA, USB 3, or similar I/O option to make it easier to use large external storage devices. An alternative–and this has to happen some day–is large, built-in HDD or SSD storage. Camcorders have had it for years.
Indeed, the Germans also said they wouldn’t invade Poland and THAT wasn’t quite true too, was it? :P
RAW just means all of the sensor data is maintained without processing; it doesn’t have to be uncompressed like CR2. Granted, it’ll still be a lot of data, but it doesn’t have to be so far-fetched, particularly if it’s in conjunction with subsampling.
RAW is likely easier to manage, not harder. And what makes you think we are talking about full resolution output? Who would want that? (OK, maybe birders ;-)
Most of that processing power is there to do encoding. If there is far less encoding involved, the issue becomes one of shifting the bits out to storage fast enough.
I’m not sure why you think RAW is so special. Not for the user I mean (I understand the significant benefits) but for the manufacturer. The sensor is already spitting out all of that data, and the processor is already processing it. That’s what RAW *is*: the raw sensor data (well OK, there’s still some processing that’s done, but the point is that there is no difference as far as the sensor is concerned.) Granted, doing the full res could pose some issues, but delivering the same resolution in RAW instead of H264 wouldn’t incur any of the issues you mention except for a tractable increase in the recording throughput.
+1
that was actually pretty funny
What I want is just auto-focus like a non-DSLR type DC or Camcorder. Other features are not so important.
could do a 5DIII that can take a grip with HD-SDI out for raw video. Or simply raw out to the HDMI and let 3rd parties deal with the IO
So, you really live on the north pole? Do you have any plan for when the polar ice melts, maybe Canon Germany need some help.
yes, full-time autofocus and a articulating screen. that would make me drool
I’m voting in favour of the 1Ds4 here. With the 1D4 out for two months now, the 1Ds4 starts being “due”. On the other hand, the 5D2 is only 15 months old while the 5D1 lasted over three years (giving me the feeling that Canon wants to have a longer life-cycle on the 5D series than on the xxxxD/xxxD/xxD series).
Grading RAW canon video will be fun. Is this something Final Cut could do with the mystical plugin for EOS? Or would it require some miserable Canon piece of software? Anyway $8K camera is the place to develope the technology that will pump huge amounts of data off the sensor into storage and deal with the heat. Then eventually that development ends up in the Rebel 2yrs later.
I, For one, do not want a HDD in my camera. They are unreliable, and easily damaged. No rotating or moving parts please!!
I do not want built-in SSD storage either, technology moves too quickly to tie down the size of memory by building it in. Nothing wrong with SSD if the user can replace or upgrade it, but I can imagine Canon charging $2000 to replace a propritary SSD module that would otherwise cost $300.
Right now, file size is limited to 4gb, no matter if its raw or otherwise. Obviously, this can be overcome by using a different file format that allows larger files, but it may not be easy to transfer to a pc or mac.
I’d expect well over $25,000. There is no competition anywhere near that price, and with a small user base, the price will jump a lot.
Quality.
hey…what you’ve said about Germans and Poland is disgusting…guess you are in the wrong place…to utter things like that…
The problem with current video for motion picture work, or even large screen TV is the compression artifacts in the existing Canon video that makes movie grade editing a big problem. The video is run thru very high end computers to attempt to clean it up. This is slow and expensive, as well as taking time.
Raw video can be edited before producing output in whatever video format you want, and left uncompressed or use much less compression.
the guy above who was bashing a poster about Germans in Poland needs some aftermath in netiquette…
Too many cameras in such short time..
It’s not likely to be an HDSLR. I’ve shared my thoughts on my blog > http://pixsylated.com/2010/02/new-canon-hdslr-my-2-cents/
The NEW FIRMWARE for 5D Mark II allows to record less compressed video (not sure if RAW, although that was Canon’s intention when developing and testing in mid. 2009).
This “rumor” surely belongs to the 1Ds Mark IV, not at all to a supposed “5D Mark III”.
In fact We do not think there is a 5D Mark III at all yet. That would kill Canon’s loyalty of thousands of professionals and serious amateurs, who are the ones who buy their expensive full frame lenses.
That might explain the INTENTIONAL DELAY that Canon is having with the “ready for release” firmware for 5D Mark II since months ago…
Anyway we do not agree with the intentional delay…
Canon: BETTER the 5D2 firmware have VERY good improvements to make it worth such wait.
.
60D will not be FF. The SRAW video mode may be in there. The sensor can take it, if they can do 720P at 60FPS on the 7D. The 1DsMKIV will have raw video too, but they will let the bugs get worked out on the 60D first. The 1Ds might have the processing power to combine pixels and really be a low light monster.
lighten up noob
You are correct. A 4K video (8.8MB Frames) has extreme data rates in Raw. Technology is not close to using every row of pixels on a 21 mp FF sensor.
Even if someone could make a 30MB / frame 30fps video, there are no ordinary pc’s that could play or edit 900 MB/Sec video in real time. Canon will undoubtedly continue skipping sensor rows. However, if compression artifacts are eliminated thru the use of RAW, the video quality will be much better.
Its unlikely that Canon could exceed 2K in any event, since even at 30fps, it requires about 66MB/Sec without compression, perhaps Dual Digic 5 could do that, but its really difficult for a low powered in-camera processor.
New technology is coming out all the time. Those who buy a camera or other high tech device typically complain when a new improved model comes out. Either late this year, or next year, a new model will come out. The time between upgrades is getting shorter.
If new and improved features killed off loyalty of camera buyers, we would still have 330,000 pixel sensors from the 1990’s.
You don’t understand the whole thing.
Of course new devices will come, and will bring better features and performance, that’s already known and we don’t argue against that at all if it comes with some “common sense” and taking in account your customers too.
The 5D Mark II CAN do LOT more without hardware changes.
We won’t bore writing the same again..
Please check the whole story to understand:
http://5dmark2.wordpress.com/2010/02/07/the-hidden-potential-of-5d-mark-ii/
And the comments by lot of 5D2 customers.
Enough of these bodies. It’s Lens Time!!!!!
Yes, it doesn’t need hardware changes, but writing software isn’t free.
Can you make a same request to bill gates for free update to Windows 7? after all it is just a software change.
Canon is business. Like all photographers and cinematographers, they also want to make as much as money possible by exploiting the market.
something which looks like a small code change to you means a lot for canon marketing in terms of product segmentation and target market.
End of the day, It boils down to money. If you are still not convinced, go ask the wedding photographers why they wouldn’t release the originals files and why they need their customers to comeback to them for reprints.
They just do it coz, they can. Period.
Agreed. If for no other reason, they’d lose a whole subset of buyers who have already invested in EF-S lenses (e.g. my EF-S 10-22mm). They’d either keep their existing cameras, or move down to the T2I…of course we can’t forget the fact that FF would make the XXD more expensive than the 7D!
Add a Direct (Video) Print button and I would soil myself.
Loyalty?? That is total BS.
People aren’t switching camps because of the investment they have in the glass. Not because they want to be loyal to their brands and make the shareholders rich.
After all it is tool and Pros know that too.
It all depends on Nikon. Canon cannot stick to their life cycles, if competition is bringing in goodies
Anyone from Canon World would know the difference between “then” and “than”. You don’t.
Or perhaps canon comes out with proprietary wavelet based compression similar to Red
Be patient my friend…
Some things can’t be rushed.
Don’t be stupid.
Your dreams will shatter…
It cannot be the 5d mark III. How could be possible that a 5d can have a better video quality than 1d mark V?????
until RED brings their stuff to the market…
Actually, modern HDD’s are pretty reliable, but I don’t think we’ll see them inside a DSLR anytime soon:
o They suck lots of power
o Vibration
o Noise — the internal disk of my HG21 comes through loudly in recordings. With an external mike, some still makes it through.
We need lenses. New lenses. Canon?
24-70 2.8 IS
14-28 2.8 IS
300 2.8 IS II
When is the Mark II 70-200 2.8 IS coming? Let us preorder.
The comment about Germans and Poland is very stupid – not clever, not funny (except for pimple faced school boys, perhaps). If you start to dig, you can find not so nice things from the present and past of any country.
Yeah, and your previous President also said he invaded Iraq because of WMDs & Saddam was in league with Al-Qaeda. Lulz.
uh… 5D has also had a better sensor than 1D… so what’s new?
besides, it’s still on the mark IV cycle … you gotta wait a while for the V’s to come out
come on 14-24 baby
IS for 14-28 will be a joke.
my mistake, mark IV
boring.
a very cool joke….
how do we know there isent a result useing super wide IS i have never used an ultra wide with IS i bet it would work hand hold 1/10th of a second lol
Canon will look stupid if someone utilises firmwares from existing Digic 4 cameras with expanded frame rates and 720p 60fps, like those seen in 7D, and release it for the 5DMk2. Someone like Magic Lanterns given the time will do exactly that if Canon don’t and this will be egg in the face. If Canon is smart and aware what hackers is about to do they will address this and give us what we need.
Any fundamental leap in video handling features will most likely involve Digic 5 and this RAW video if true will appear in the 5DMk3 and not 1DsMk4 which is Digic 4.
I still believe HD DSLR need to be affordable to become popular and it makes more sense if it is below $3k.
hey 5D Mark II TEAM, why not wait for the 1d4s and then upgrade. for sure you will have all what you are asking for. or canon will not release that firmware update then late this year canon will release the 5d3 then for sure all your request for the 5d2 will really be on it. id ask you this question, will you still want the firmware update or buy the 5d3?
About a month ago adobe created a raw video codec. this could be a option in the new cameras. they should be able to to capture a 1920x1080p raw video to compact flash but it would only be fore a few mins on a 8gb card. as a red camera user canon has already turned over the video market. I do see problems with battery life, and heat. The only thing is that canon still makes video cameras where dos this leave there video market for the future. I know they have a made a 50mbit mpeg video codec but that is still twice ase compressed as dvcpro hd. They really need this raw video codec
now you’re talking about a bunch of tangled wire mess – not something I want to deal with, or many others. Will some people, yes… you can use an AJA Ki Pro, Firestore, or similar, but then what’s the point in recording a RAW format?
Grading RED raw video is awesome. The control you have is amazing. RED Alert and RED Rushes are fantastic.
Canon would need to have these style tools available, or else RAW video is useless.
The EOS plugin for FCP is just a Log & Transfer plugin to process the H264 files to Apple ProRes at the current moment. I’m sure they could modify the plugin to reference an “RSX” style grading information file for each clip that’s processed – that’s the way the RED FCP plugin for Log & Transfer works.
Don’t mention the war..!
We will not buy a 5D Mark III (3) because:
1-5D Mark 3 is NOT going to be this year, that’s a wrong rumor.
2-Even when the 5D3 comes, maybe in 2011, we are not going to buy another camera with the improvements we request for all users, because THESE improvements CAN be made to the 5D Mark II without hardware change
3-The firmware for 5d2 IS ALREADY built, Canon is just delaying it, and will be released (not with all these improvements, but it will)
4-Canon is NOT so silly… They are aware now, and strategic businessmen, and they know why they are delaying it.
BUT we clearly SHOW them and let them know our need as much as we can to push a bit. If we never push, they won’t give so much importance to the matter as they already did.
We, like LOT of users, are not going to buy another high-end multi-thousand DSLR just to get these improvements.
Just take a look at what so many customers say.
Improving a Firmware is a tiny investment compared to a whole new design (which also requires a firmware)
We are not requesting the source code, your interpretation and conclusion is wrong.
BTW, The new Firmware for 5D Mark II is already made… Canon is not so silly. But we show them what we need most.
The silence of customers would mean the low interest, and we do not want to give that impression.
If we never “showed” to them our huge interest on 5D2 and the potential -possible improvements- of this camera (thus more sales, more profit), probably all the new DSLRs wouldn’t have so many video features (*), and the 5D Mark II wouldn’t have improvements (that in fact it still doesn’t beyond Manual Control, but we keep requesting because we do know it’s possible, and even already made)
(*) Take a look at our LIST OF FIXES & FEATURES requested and you will find many of these new features are in the list since few months later the 5D2 was released
– http://5dmark2.wordpress.com/petition-to-canon-inc/
– http://5dmark2.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/5d-mark-ii-features-request/
CR2 is compressed. Probably you meant “lossless like CR2”.
Raw video is like raw meat and raw photographs. You can cook it how you want to.
Arghhh…technology development is too fast too keep up! well, my pocket is not able to keep up haha.
LOL. I was going to point out the same thing.
Why when someone mentioned they are from Canon organization, they have to be blasted, flamed and called all stupid remarks? Remember when I first leak the 5DMkII with full HD video in DPreview, the very same thing happened until someone ceated a link to just talk about me? That’s why I refuse to post any more leaks in any forum anymore. Nevertheless I have a few interesting info but…
I’ve read some of your list of fixes ect. on the site, and I see your point. But, at the same time everyone who bought this camera knew ahead of time what it could do. If not having those features was such a big deal then maybe people shouldn’t have bought it, and instead bought an actual HD video camera.
You are spot on..! yes, canon will release a firmware update with minimum changes and then roll out 5D mark III with all the goodies. And that is business. I dont blame canon for that.
I would prefer if Canon would concentrate on producing a Pro – Camera, that is truly PRO.
I could not care less about moving images, my business is the art of Still images , not moving images.
Please Canon, produce a 1Ds Mark IV that is beyond my wildest dreams and expectations in terms of IMAGE QUALITY. That is what really matters. I dont need 32 MP nor do I need ISO to photograph the dark side of the moon in brought daylight. I need the best of the best in Image quality, No to low noise and functions, taht are designed to guide – assist the photographer for custom functions , not focusing problems and noisiness.
Please canon… Just get it done.
Thx.
There weren’t WMDs? Saddam wasn’t conspiring with Al-Qaeda? Wow!
Signed,
Typical American Voter
We don’t blame Canon either for doing business
But the 5D Mark 3 is not going to be anytime soon as rumored. That’s pure speculation and even worse.
The 5D2 firmware will come with some important improvements, (and yes, not all what they could give, that’s something we already expected), so we keep requesting all around the world.
Let Canon know what we 5D2 customers Feel and NEED (politely,but clearly):
– http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=3f7l-Z4NF70&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3D3f7l-Z4NF70
– http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=PdDAfOi3nb0&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DPdDAfOi3nb0
We do NOT want a 5D3, but the firmware update to the existing 5D2, that CAN be made with MANY fixes and improvements to match cheaper and even entry-level DSLR’s video features.
If you check carefully, we are also requesting some “STILL-ONLY” features since the beginning 2009…
Like AutoISO limit (recently implemented in the 550D), and even more frames for Bracketing.
Those are completely possible fixes/improvements via firmware (purely software related). They don’t need any hardware change at all.
– It’s a long story and we think many Blog posts already explained it very well.
– As a very brief explanation about a “HD video camera” vs. “5D Mark II”, let’s post this once again:
” WHY NOT JUST BUY A VIDEO CAMERA?
If you can find a video camera that:
a) shoots HD (Full HD)
b) has a 50 Mbps data rate
c) has interchangeable lenses
d) has a 35 mm or larger sensor
e) costs less than $150k (without lenses, like the CineAlta F35)
then buy that one instead. ”
Those are some of the reasons why we are requesting this since so long, because 5D2 CAN deliver much more than currently is.
Germany will invade Poland AGAIN before they release a 5d3 before the 1d4s….
no way in hell.
Zee Poles invited us Germans and Uncle Stalin in, all other comments are lies, all lies
Can somebody explain what this CR2 is?
Oh goody, let’s add a feature to the camera that’s used by 1% of the users while everyone had to pay for it… Wish they started releasing DSLRs in two versions – one with movie mode and one without.
Lulz. I approve this message.
I also approve of invading Iraq with false pretenses so we can control their oil resources and convert the heathen barbarians into the 700 Club.
cr2 is the canon raw photo file format as in apposed to a compressed jpg file, if you view files with extensions at the end of the file name a canon raw will have the suffix .cr2 just like a .jpg (self explanatory) or a .dng for adobe’s open source raw format.
I hope that goes some way to explaining it.
Yeah I think the 3 year cycle needs to take into account that for most of that the 5dI had absolutely NO competition, in fact, if memory serves, when the 5dI came out didn’t nikon (or any other 35mm camera system) essentially not offer any FF dslr’s?
On top of that, the most obvious and most serious drawbacks of built-in storage are:
– difficult to upgrade
– cannot carry several memory cards and swap in the field
Both HD and SSD continue to evolve fast enough so that a build-in storage device would be completely outdated before the camera reaches the end of its commercial life, never mind the end of its useful life (I still take pictures with my 20D every once in a while)
The only reasonable way I can see to provide much more internal data storage would be define a new format of memory card/module larger than CF, maybe with eSATA interface, so that you could swap in and out HD or HD-format SSD flash drives
The limit to 4GB is not a problem, the camera could just create a sequence of 4GD files that the RAW conversion software stitches together automatically. All it needs is a tag saying “next RAW file belongs to the same video” written by the camera when is reaches the 4GB limit and switches files.
;-)
…instead of having to eat bland, one-taste-fits-all chain restaurant cooking.
It’s already been established, it doesn’t cost any more to build a DSLR with movie mode then without, so the cost to the end user is if anything, lower because more product will be sold due to the feature.
The answer? simple, don’t use the movie mode if you don’t want to, you don’t have to use it just coz it’s there, it’s like having an ashtray in a car as a non smoker, you don’t have to take up smoking just to use the ashtray.
“It’s already been established, it doesn’t cost any more to build a DSLR with movie mode then without,”
By whom – you and your mates? BS – movie mode requires extra features, it needs more processing power (more, bigger silicon), it needs a mike, mike input etc. Just about ANY feature, be it a software (development time) or hardware one adds costs.
Or maybe the new “CFast”. Compact Flash second generation up to 600 MB/s
http://www.compactflash.org/
Regards
If they improve IQ over 5D2 & 1DIV,
Add Raw video format,
And maybe add XLR type connectors for audio in.
And I can see the 1DsIV being very popular with film makers.
+1
xxD having better features than 1D,7D,5DII.
LOL
It adds manufacturing costs, not customer paid costs. Look at the prices of the cameras before video features were added and after… notice anything? The prices before video was added are the same as the price the models after (some are even slightly cheaper. So quit running your mouth about something you clearly have no facts supporting it. The more feataures they add within reason the better! Keep up the good work Canon! Canon will ALWAYS be better than Nikon! Even Nikon’s mount is inferior!
Just don’t use it. 50/50’s right. The movie mode helps sell cameras. A higher quantity of cameras sold will help keep prices competitive. If you’re really opposed to your cameras having the latest technological advances, then maybe you should only use film cameras. There are plenty of features on modern DSLR cameras that I rarely use, but I don’t whine about them being there. You do have other options. Buy yourself a Leica M9 (great camera) and a couple lenses for $13,000 and pride yourself in the fact that your camera is a “pure” camera with no crappy movie mode or other advanced features to bother you.
Ah, come on – there will always be people who try to make fun of or bash everything – it’s just a form of trolling.
But there are others who really interested so please share
Best analogy ever Wilee, good meat doesn’t need much cooking.
Red is dead baby.
“If you’re really opposed to your cameras having the latest technological advances, then maybe you should only use film cameras”
This is a typical strawman argument – attacking a position or answering an argument that was not actually made.
I am not against technological advances and I never said any such thing. I am against the current process in which a side-, non-core-feature becomes an important, selling point and one that costs extra money. Traditionally (D)SLRs are devices that take still pictures, not movies, not moving pictures. For whatever reason an additional feature of taking movies with a still-picture camera has now become so important that its presence and/or features is actually more important than other, traditional features (for some people anyway).
If those features would not cost anything I would just ignore them but the point is that they do cost extra.
As a side note – I love shooting film too as well as manual cameras and if anyone would ever come up with a digital back to the T90 I would snap it in a second.
Yep and i bet vignetting will go through the roof… Just like the price. Keeping a tele-lens stable (or anything not inverted) is doable, nothing special. However, are there inverted lenses with IS? (i think not, but prove me wrong :) )
“It adds manufacturing costs, not customer paid costs. ”
Yeah right and those manufacturing and R&D costs just disappear.
“The prices before video was added are the same as the price the models after (some are even slightly cheaper”
Yes, because other technology got cheaper so without video those camera would be cheaper yet.
“The more feataures they add within reason the better!”
Agreed, as long as the are core features supporting the primary task of the device. See the post below.
Please, no RAW footage of that…..
I wonder how long it takes for the emphasis to shift to video so much so, that they begin to change the body of the dSLR for easier holding during filming? Hmm….
Who cares.
I’m still using my 5D MK 1. It was built well and it does me fine.
Colour needs a little work but I know what to do and how to work it.
Why not?
actually Canon Land should be in Japan, and I can assume that they don’t even need to know that. oh, these patriots….
I believe that there are existing cameras that do chain files to get around the stupid MS-DOS size limit.
Oh I love guys like you :) who the f**** cares if you are happy with your 5D?!?! What about the others who need an upgrade or just start with a DSLR. Only cause you are happy, no one else is allowed to care about this?!
Epic fail.
RAW video in a DSLR is my dream…. if they get it to 4k (like RED), then I would be in paradise.
I’ve been looking around for a used 5D. Incredible camera, they are holding their value well.
I think it’s universally agreed that there won’t be built-in hard drives any time soon…
Ah, sorry. Was totally confused because people before were throwing around “CR-12” or something, and I was like, is this a new type of format or something?
As for the .cr2 video, is this how professional videocameras work (i.e. RED or Sony EX1)? I know they have their own proprietary formats, but if Canon made a .cr2 file that could be edited like their image files, but compatible with video editing software, that would be insane.
The built-in storage device would not be completely outdated before the camera reaches the end of its commercial or useful life. The camera does not change. Its output is the same. If the storage can hold 50,000 photos or 100 hours of video today, it can hold the same amount in ten years time.
Removable storage suffers from this problem, though. When I upgrade a camera, I inevitably have to upgrade my removable storage. My old 256MB CF cards still work, but there is no point putting them in my 50D and shooting RAW if I can fill them with a 1.5s burst. I don’t use the 1GB cards that I used with my 400D, either.
Built-in storage is not an either/or proposition. A camera can still have removable storage, too.
“I am against the current process in which a side-, non-core-feature becomes an important, selling point and one that costs extra money.”
So what? Go and buy a Leica, then. Just don’t come back and complain about the price.
If Canon market a camera with more gizmos than you need, it is because those gizmos will attract other customers who, by increasing unit sales, end up subsidising the price you have to pay for access to what you consider to be “core features”.
Well, with the exception of REDs format, which I’m not really familiar with, they aren’t exactly like a raw still files.
The technology needed to store that much data let alone work on it would just be ridiculous at this stage (probably will happen eventually though I suspect).
The video raw formats are a bit more like a .tiff file with some losless compression applied. Where as the format that the canon’s are outputting their video to (and the nikons is even worse) are a bit like a jpg set to the low or medium quality setting, which means you can sometimes see some compression artifacts. The idea with raw video is basically that you can then edit it in real time and apply what ever treatment you want before compression takes place. Then allowing you to export to what ever more common video format/compression you need for your end output. I could be getting some of that wrong as I’m just going by what I’ve picked up from friends who work in that part of the industry, I still work in stills predominantly.
I think a lot of people who have been using the canon dslr’s for video have been getting a bit sick of being limited to it’s strict and fairly heavy handed compression. So offering a raw video output format or even some control over the compression would be welcome by many I’m sure.
I think your tipster has it wrong, or did not understand of what we are working on.
Canon will bring on a plug-in for final cut pro which makes conversion to another format unecessary. Saving probably about 50% of time.
The public beta of this plugin will be brought to the general public somewhere in March. Expect release of the new 5D2 firmware around the same time. (Although I have had no information of this firmware update since last december…)
This final cut plugin will work for the EOS 1D4 series, 5D2 and 7D.
To add to that:
The MPEG-4 H.264 files out of these camera’s will with this plugin automatically be converted to Apple’s ProRes 422 codec.
Once again – you are arguing something I have not said.
If Canon wishes to market cameras with lots of gizmos that cost extra money and are non-core to the main purpose of the device it’s great and I’m happy for Canon and people who want to buy those cameras but I would be even happier if they gave customers more choice by also selling “simpler” versions of those cameras without those gizmos.
The 17-55 2.8 IS? Probably not, but the lens does represent a wide to mid-tele focal length on the 1.6 fovc sensor.
Also, what is the connection between vignetting and image stabilization?
We luvs your infos.
Thank you for the information. Will Canon be supporting this plug-in for conversion obsolescence for any other platforms? Premiere or Vegas?
As far as I have been told, unfortunately, no.
We have just put some information online which you can check out here: http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/eos_movie_plugin.do
There is one positive aspect for Canon to use the H264 codec : it blurs the image … I can not imagine the result of the silly line skipping process with a lossless codec. So the first thing they should do is to find a way to interpolated lines to have a clean downsampling. Seriously, I’v been filming hours and hours with my 7D (already 3×52′ documentaries broadcasted in Europe) and 50% of the wide shots (using the 10-22) are crappy and unuseable. There is a trend on shallow dof that helps bluring the moiré when using a longer lens, but I would like to have a camera that allow wide shots with everything in focus … If not I would not invest xx.000 $ in something that I could use only for a limited kind of shots …. This moiré problem is really something to be solved before Canon can pretend to offers filmakers something that can compete with a real camera like the Red. Being able to do extreme color grading is fine but first a clean picture is needed !
The first tests Ikonoskop did in Australia are very promising but their commercial approach is strange, the Scarlett is a vapor-gizmo, so I hope Canon will take the good route to offer us a nice and not-so-expensive filming tool …
Well said Iolicht! The moiré problem is the only reason why I haven’t committed on an upgrade, hoping the next model (maybe the s?) will fix this problem!
hehe thats my dream!
Just my 1920 cents :)
Full HD video = 1920*1080
Say you only use CFA pixels (cheating), 14 bits per pixel.
1920*1088*14 = 29 245 440 bits per frame
29245440/8 = 3 655 680 bytes per frame
3655680 * 30 fps = 109 670 400 bytes per second
About 100 MB/sec for uncompressed Full-HD video at 14 bpp.
Add the lamest lossless compression, say 50%, and that’s “only” 50 MB/sec.
And there you go ! Your 32 GB flash will store 10 mins of 14-bits raw goodness ;)
RED does NOT normally shoot RAW video, but (mostly) 6x wavelet compressed.
There was an interview at the introduction of the 5DII,
where the Canon rep said the 5D to 5DII cycle was longer than they planned, that future cycles would be more typical.
With Nikon & Sony pushing FF Canon would be stupid to leave the 5DII as is for 3 years.
Or not enough if you’re waiting for the 3D
Thanks for clearing that up. I do notice some compression on Vimeo, but I always assumed people were editing in the wrong format, and not properly converting first (Apple lossless?). So it has to do with the compression in camera. Well, I am very excited for this RAW video that comes out. And the ensuing size/speed race for cards capable of holding this these raw files.
However, offering raw seems like another step towards film makers, which is great. I just hope that photographers are getting some bumps in resolution and noise handling and other bits to make this a very worthwhile camera.
Could the 1ds mkIV be coming out with a high speed function? Perhaps 120fps 1080p video and 240fps 720p?
Canon, it’s really not so difficult. Just output uncompressed 1920x1080p via the HDMI port, or add an HD-SDI port. We’ll connect that to a Convergent Designs nanoFlash box for the lightest possible compression (up to 280 Mbps I-frame only 4:2:2), which you can’t do in the DSLR.
See http://convergent-design.com for what the video guys use to record at higher quality than the native formats of their cameras. (No, I don’t work for them.)
That is precisely what I am arguing against. Having one camera with lots of gizmos and another without those gizmos is not necessarily going to make the “basic” camera cheaper; it could well be more expensive, as it would be a niche product.
On the other hand, there are many differentiations between models in the range, but usually only when it comes to things that actually affect the price: different bodies, different viewfinders, different sensors, different AF modules, different shutters, etc. Your objections are mostly targeted at things that are unlikely to change the price. The same DIGIC 4 processor and firmware is stuffed into almost every model. Once one model has the related gizmos, it costs almost nothing to add them to the others, particularly as it should increase sales.
You also claim that the features “do cost extra”. However the MSRP for the current generation of cameras is lower than for the previous generation. Any suggestion that they could be even cheaper would be pure speculation.
I believe that the “Ikonoskop A-Cam DLL” shoots raw DMG files. They have focused on increasing the pipeline to the storage card that much, instead of going through compression algorithms. The cam is not out yet, but some people are shooting on protoypes. I probably works, but I suspect it will end up like vapurware eventually, because they have really let down their customers by always moving the release date, and eventually just shutting up and not making any press statements at all. But we´ll see.
http://www.ikonoskop.com
not a bad way of putting it haha
thanks for the great post
They could just license exFat which supports larger files and is a faster file system for Reading / Writing than FAT32.