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Official Canon Survey
Canon has sent invites to folks to participate in a survey geared towards video in SLR's.
Survey Here: http://survey.cusa.canon.com/Pub/2wS26J/Link.html
The survey is only for US residents. You can tell a fib and answer “yes” to that question.
It's nice to see Canon asking for feedback from the users.
thanks Rich
cr
You can do it more then once.
this survey kicks you straight out if you dont click on a camera that has video recording….. in any case, alrighty… everyone make sure you complain about AF speed (or lack thereof)..
Huh, I was expecting a survey on what we wanted out of DSLR video. Instead they want to only hear from people who already have it.
Those are probably the best people to ask at the moment. Perhaps this survey is geared to firmware updates as well as future products.
Well, if you have a video-capable SLR they want to know if you actually use that feature. There are probably more questions for those who do, but I answered “I only take still photos and never make videos” and that was the end of that. If they get the message from this that there is a market for professional SLRs with no video capability, that’s fine with me.
everyone should take this survey and tell Canon that the T1i needs manual exposure control and a real 1080 frame rate! it seems they are getting the hint that T1i and 5D owners want more from their cameras and hopefully we can prove that they should deliver on that with a firmware upgrade!!
IMHO, Canon really should have two versions of the 5D2, 7D or future 3D/whatever: a full version with video and the other one without. I personally do not want to shoot video in a way handheld a dSLR, with the LCD liveview.
Some ideas for you all to consider asking for…
Focus Assist,
AGC Disable option
Headphone Jack
Focus Pulling memories for lenses
Real scaling and no line skipping to eliminate the aliasing and moire.
More frame rate options like 120, 240 and 512fps even at reduced 720p or 480p resolutions.
Peaking, Zebra, Audio meters,
HDMI Hi res output without any overlays so you can capture out.
License the Cineform codec and save in higher than 8bit as an extra option.
Incorporate a global shutter to get rid of jello.
Create video specific lenses with improved AF and step-less aperture like Panasonic.
Commend them for doing much better on the 7D, they are going in the right direction!
Awesome, thank you Canon for taking an interest! Here’s hoping I get my wish for 720p/30 on the 5D in order to shoot longer clips before hitting the 4GB limit. I also down convert my clips to 720p/30 before editing anyway, since I shoot videos for Web use only and have no need for 1080p. Audio also needs to have manual gain as well otherwise its useless for capturing production audio.
How about you just don’t use the feature and save Canon the hassle.
And with your mentality, if I never use bracket-exposure, they should make one camera with it, and one without. Add that to your list with video.
ps – I use bracket-exposure. Just an example.
I am confused.
How does my comment regarding one FF camera w/ video and one w/o have anything to do with my mentality? Or bracket-exposure????
Simply put, I wish the w/o version could be a little bit cheaper. If Canon offers a lower price for customers who swear they wont use the video function, that will be fantastic. I 100% support you to present this genius idea to Canon. :)
BTW I do not use bracke-exposure indeed. There is something called metering, built in all the dSLRs. While you are not sure about the metering, there is something called histogram, also built in. Now can I safely assume you had never used them, since you are a no-hassle person who loves bracket-exposure? :)
What do you care if it has video or not if you dont use it?
They are not going to lower the price by not having video. Adding video has not raised the price at all on any of the cameras, so your arguement makes no sense, and comes across like you are just opposed to more features on a camera. The fact is the 5D2 price is justified just on the photography features alone where they basically doubled the image size giving us 1Ds3 quality on a camera that costs the same as the old 5D did. Same is true of the 500D. Telling Canon to reduce features because you dont use them yourself is just silly.
yeah the survey had no options on features wanted by serious videographers, such as manual audio level control, more frame rate options, HDMI output without overlay, etc.
Whoever wrote the survey does not understand videography.
Um, the 4 gig limit is pure 100% laziness on Canon’s part. All they have to do is file split every 4 gigs to get around the FAT32 4 gig limit, as has been done by many other companies using CF cards, like Citidisk, Marantz, etc. So you get continous recording but it auto splits in 4 gig file segments. When you load the 4 gig files onto your timeline they play and edit seemlessly. No need to lower the resolution at all. I have a Citidisk HDV drive that I used for recording .MTS HDV files from my XLH1 and it was also FAT32 and it just split the files every 4 gigs until the drive filled up. Same thing on my Marantz audio recorder, it splits the wav files every 4 gigs on the CF card but records continuously until the card is full.
I would like 720 60p on the 5D2 though.
Yes, I realize that Canon did say in one of their interviews that it does not cost much for them to put in the video, probably just the firmware turn it on and off. Though as marketing strategy, video especially 1080p with 24p etc are heavily advertised.
IMHO, a 7D with FF CMOS will be ideal, for now. I don’t even NEED video as I am a photographer.
More function is not always better. More funtion useful to the particular user is better.
In this conversation, I merely said a no-video FF camera with lower price tag will attract ME.
BTW, I don’t know how to conclude a price is “justified” or not. How do you value all the “more functions” on 7D? How does that compare to the FF CMOS in 5D2? Which one is more “justified”? I am no ecnomical analyst, but the price drop cycle pretty much suggests there are fairly wide profit margin. As a consumer, I am not sure how many of us could accept this “justified price” concept.
Everyone, please ask for MANUAL EXPOSURE CONTROL and usable frame rate (at least 24fps) in 1080p for Canon T1i/500D! Being a student, I cannot afford to buy a 7D or 5Dmk2. Even with these features enabled via firmware update on 500D, there are enough other differences that set these cameras apart. (shooting speed, sensor size, ruggedness, viewfinder size and so on – video did not exist until recently, did rebels without video ever hinder the sales of higher-end canons?) Seriously Canon, please enable these features – every film students will buy your camera for sure!
I’ll share my wishlist…
I asked for 1080p @ 24 and 25fps.. 720p @ 48, 50 and 60fps and the ability to use a different codec like 10bit apple pro res 422 (hq) as an alternative to H264
also asked for the ability to record video to RAW sequences @ 1920×1080 ;-)
that last one maybe on the 1D mk4… but who knows!!
I’m crossing my fingers!!!
Ask for RAW HD recording and 60fps at the end.
on one hand, I would really like Canon to finish the job, and provide real firmware updates for crippled video.
on the other hand, I just dont like video features and I want Canon to focus on all the rest (AF microtuning on 40D, better faster autofocus, a huge work on lens re-design, and lens QC).
So I wont lie to the survey.
This is a great opportunity.
If someone would like to check a Reference list of some common requests, please check:
http://5dmark2.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/i-called-canon/
We are requesting for video on the 5D Mark II, and the answers given by Canon representatives taking the requests are VERY interesting.
From a member who spoke personally to a Canon representative at an event:
“The representative was well aware of all the issues. They hear us. And they seem to push Canon Japan to address our “beloved” problems. I had the feeling that he had to bite his tongue concerning possible firmware updates. He was pretty much in favor of an update to come. But he was clear that right now Canon is promoting the 7D. Due to the fact that they want to sell the new one, he was pretty pessimistic about a firmware update in the near future. He was guessing that such an update *could* be released maybe in half a year.”
So WE MUST KEEP CALLING, doing the Survey and letting them know about our requests.
There is a big chance indeed.
A member wrote this IMPORTANT comment:
“Make sure to check “other” for some of the answers that the multiple choice lack complete answers. That opens up a comment area where you can list the various features we are looking for…”
“Justified” is a normative ideal- what is “just” and “fair” will change with the times. Cameras start out expensive because they tend to be cutting edge (for that price group). As time goes on, other models are developed that make the same camera worth relatively less, and hence the need to drop the price.
Think of it as the cost of being an early adopter of a new, innovative product. All products have it, and it doesnt mean the original price wasn’t “fair”.
Back to topic though, video is a by product of live view- all the hardware needed for video is needed to provide LV. Once the software has been developed, it probably costs close to nothing to have it added to the cameras- which is why we’ll never see camera models differentiated by video & price only. Little cost increase but great marketing benefits.
Ever heard about HDR?
For those wishing Canon would sell a version of the 5DII without video features and charge less you are delusional. Besides the fact that implementing video costs very little they are selling at the current price for what the market will bear. They seem hard to get at the current demand. There is no way in the world that they will make a non-video version and sell it for less. What they would do, if they did it at all, would be to raise the price of the video version. How does that benefit anyone who doesn’t want video? It doesn’t but it just makes the people who do want it pay more. They current way they do it will not change and it is the best for all consumers. And for what it’s worth they will not ever release a prosumer or pro DSLR again without video capabilities so get used to it.
Know what’d be cool? The ability to save 2mpx stills from a video frame on the LCD during playback. That way, you can use the camera as a 30fps 2mpx still camera. You can already view one frame at a time – why not let us save that frame as a new file?
I would love a FF 7D too. It didnt happen, but I still think the 7D is a great new camera in the EOS line.
Are you saying photographers who shoot video too are not photographers? Dang, guess I’ll have to change my business cards now.
Hi,
JFYI;
This kind of survey was took place in Japan in end of July.
I got a Blu-ray demo disc of Sakura, took by famous Japanese photograper with 5D2.
I joined the survey from here Germany and the Blu-ray disc was delivered to my parent’s place. I got to know it by receiving happy-birthday mail from mon and BTW you got something from Canon. I don’t know when I can see the Blu-ray movie….
Forgot to mention,
a Blu-ray disc was as an award of the participation.
As far as I remember, 500 lucky guys out of all participation could got it. So, I was the one of lucky guys. ;-)
I am in the same situation and feel the sam way as you Peter. The T1i is in my budget for my films and while it works if it had Manual Exposure Control and a 1080 frame rate it would really be amazing.
There are a bunch of other features I’d love to have in the 7D and 5D but there is no chance of me affording them so despite having them I am just going to have to make the T1i work. They aren’t going to gain a sale from me by keeping them out of the T1i just keeping me from making the most of it.
Yes, FF 7D will be nice. But I assume that will be called “3D” instead? :)
No, I was not saying that photographers who use the video function are not photographers, they will be photographer/Cinematographer, which I consider “more funtions” ;)
The reason I said I do not want video, is that shooting video with the current dSLR format handheld is not for me. IMHO, you will definitely need the tripod to do so (imagine a 5D2 + 70-200/2.8 IS on it, hand held, shooting video :). I don’t know about you guys, I will have quite significant hand shake gets into the video, for sure.
PS. yes, you should add the Cinematographer title onto your business card. :)
I would think, other than “cutting edge technology”, the market competition plays a HUGE role here. I am not blaming the companies going after profit, that is natural.
Though I think, with the extra video function marketing strategy, manufacturers (not just Canon) are able to add a few $$$ on top of the price which should be “justified”. As we discussed, the video function costs next to nothing.
I will be shocked if you insist that Canon gives the consumer the video function for free (i.e., justified price without the portion of zero cost for video), yet they put up all the heavy advertisement on the 1080p etc. :)
yes, HDR is fun to look at for the first 10, or even 50 of them. But do you rely on HDR to get proper exposure?
I myself find HDR usually poses a very artificial feeling to it. Those without the post-process feel HDR pictures, you usually can get it with one RAW. I strongly oppose those HDRs made from 5-7 pictures each with 1 stop difference.
So far none of the camera prices are being increased by the addition of video. If you want to Liveview off the camera, or maybe take the LCD screen off of them, then you might save a few bucks and eliminate video in the process – but no one really wants to do that.
Obviously video ability opens up a wider market of consumers for DSLR’s, which means they sell more cameras, so of course they are going to advertise the feature. Increased sales is good for Canon, and good for us because we want them to stay in business and make more cameras.
I dont believe we’ll see a 3D anytime soon. It’s a nice rumor myth topic, but it’s not a price gap hole to fill with it like there was in the 7D/D300 range. The FF “daddy” to the 7D will be the 1D4.
Handheld video sucks in general, on DSLR’s and camcorders imo unless its a shoulder mount camcorder. Personally I’m going to get a Verizoom ZeroGravity Rig to shoulder mount the 5D2 and add a larger LCD and shotgun mic on that. I’m also considering a Verizoom FlowCam GT, ProLite or Aviator stabilizer for smooth video while walking/running. But I’d need all these things to get good video from any handheld camera/camcorder.
Pro looking video is almost never achieved by handholding a camera, except when you want to make it look amaturish or in Reality TV style.
David, without knowing the “true cost” of manufacturing dSLRs, I found it hard to conclude that “the camera prices are not being increased by the addition of video”. I guess only the manufacturers know what’s really happening here.
Now back to the argument, first of all, I don’t recall I ever said I do not need LCD. I need that to check the histograms. :)
I think the key issue here is that, is the dSLR price truly the cost of technology or the combination of technology and marketing. I tend to believe it is the later, in which case, I believe there is room to lower down the price.
Or, if there is a way the dSLR makers could make the dSLR more video friendly (ergonomics I am talking about here), then that price tag will be more close to “justified”.
Just my $0.02.
You’ll probably not see decent 1080p on the T1i. I dont think the hardware is capable of it or they would have delivered 1080 30p initially. Getting some manual control should be doable from firmware, but Canon’s gonna have to see enough demand for manual control on it I’d think. Hope they do it.
Go buy a Nikon already. lol
You have a point about no HD in the G11. The cameras are not crippled. Your opinion of the 7D and 5D2 just means Canon is not a good camera company for you. They can’t please everyone of course. If you want a fast low MP FF in the 5D2 price range go buy a D700 and relax. Canon doesn’t make one.
lol the post I commented on disappeared
Well, The 5D Mark I was $3,299 when it came out. The 5D Mark II was $2700 with video so I don’t get your claim video feature is increasing the price.
The video recording is a function of Liveview, which developed from LCD screens on the back needing a live video feed to view the picture from. So if you’re really gonna ask Canon to save you a few bucks just turning off the menu feature for video is not going to do that. You’d need to eliminate Liveview, and hence the LCD screen, to save any money.
All features cost money to implement. If they hadn’t done video then they could worked on some other features. But since it’s here Canon will save money by putting it in all cameras rather than disable it in some and market and support two sligtly different model.
You could even argue that the disabling the video is the part that will add cost, so the one without video should be more expensive.
& doesn’t understand marketing research either, let me tell you :)
David: where did the quote part in your post come from? Don’t see it anywhere in this discussion. You got private message for this?! Wow, you are a star! :))))))
I have to make it clear that I did not think the extra cost was put there solely because the technology. Some of my friend argue that dSLRs are completely not necessary due to the liveview function. Yes, as long as the visibility and frame speed catch up, the optical viewfinder will be replaced one day. In that case, the cost of the reflex system will completely be removed. Though will that lower the price tag? I doubt it.
As you said, 5D MK I was ~ 1/3 more expensive than 5D2, do you think it is because 5D1 is more expensive to manufacture, or rather, it is because at that time, 5D was the king of the market? If there is no D3x no D700 no Sony A700/A900 (I lost track of the Sony models, sorry), will the 5D2 still stays beneath $3K? Or without D300, will the 7D price be “justified”? (yes I do think 7D’s $1600 price tag is justified)
Market, my friend, is the determine factor here, in terms of price. Technology, no matter how much we love it, is much less a factor in this world, sadly I must say.
I agree. 3D wont be here until late 2010 or 2011. And again, it depends on the market. I don’t think Nikon and Sony will sit tightly and watch Canon takes all the glory. Competition is a good thing, for us consumers anyway. :))
with 5D2 and 7D, especially 7D poses a shadow on D300, I think Nikon will definitely do something quickly. Nikon gained a bit more market share since they act quickly rolling out D700 D300 D3 D40 etc. If I were Nikon marketing people, I will try my best to maintain this momentum. It is not just the product, it is the faith of the product line. Investing in dSLR is not just about the body. I think we can all agree on this. (my painful memory of switching from Minolta to Canon just hit me again :)
Personally, as an amateur photographer, I don’t think I will ever purchase a 1D/1Ds series camera. (Are you guys in this discussion all pros?) Therefore APS-C or FF, there will be room for better cameras. At this stage, I think FF 7D or 3D will be ideal. I agree that could threat the 1D cameras. But Canon is going to make the 1D4 much better, right? ;)
As for video part, I admire those using 5D2 to shoot pro grade video/movies, ON A TRIPOD. I just don’t see myself holding the heavy 5D2 + whatever L lens/Zeiss/Leica plus the adapter, to shoot video, handheld. Again, I am no pro, therefore if I am shooting video, it will be for my family or party, maybe. This purpose could be served better with a dedicated HD vidocam which could be a fraction of the 5D2+lens weight. Wont that be easier on your arm for, say, shooting 1 hour of the video clip? :)))
Nonmem, if you want to keep the LCD, then the technology for video is there too. If you want to save money by eliminating video from the DSLR you need to eliminate the LCD screen unless you are saying take off the video feature from the menu and keep the LCD but that doesn’t save Canon any manufacturing money so why would they lower the price for you? Marketing is going to happen no matter what the features are, so I dont see how taking the words 1080p out of marketing material is going to save any money.
I doubt they will drop the mirror on DSLR’s. Video on the Liveview is one thing but shooting stills is way better when looking through the lens directly. Compact cameras make sense as you have to give up something to get the smaller size and the prism is an obvious choice. DSLR’s just dont need to get that small and I dont know any pros who’d want to trade direct looking through the lens for Liveview-only. It’s a both-and camera, still/video, SLR/Liveview ;)
Just a question: if the 7D had a FF sensor, how much would Canon have asked for it? As it is, the MSRP is well below 2000$ or Euros, the 5DII is about 2500, so a full frame that has all the advanced features of 7D should be aroud 3500-4500! How much is that hypothetical camera different from the 1DsIII? Does the difference in features justifies going from 4500 to 8000? I am not to say the conclusion, I guess it is pretty clear.
I got it. After a few posts, the system no longer allow the posts to indent. :)
David, let me make myself more clear: I do NOT think it is the technology (in this case, the video function) makes the price higher or lower. Rather, technology serves for marketing purpose (from the manufacturer’s point of view). Putting the video into the camera does not cost money or cost very little money. But promoting the video function costs millions of dollars. Unfortunately that money will end up on the price tag for each camera. By promoting, I don’t mean just print out the 1080p on the poster. Marketing is way more complicated than just printing out the poster.
As for liveview photography, I hold the same view as the handheld video. It is awkward. I prefer the optical viewfinder, at least for now. :)
Nonmem, marketing obviously costs money, but that is offset by increased sales, which you must admit video on the 5D2 has clearly added lots of sales that would not have been made without it. Its to every Canon DSLR user’s benefit for Canon to sell as many 5D2 & 7D’s as possible, Canon makes more money and they make us more advanced cameras for our money on the next round. Telling them to cut out popular features is shooting yourself in the foot even if you don’t want or use the feature.
Those wanting lower MP have the same problem because lens improvement is driven by increase in resolution. When the 1D came out at 4 MP the 16-35mm mark I was very usable, as the MP went up it was then found to be too soft and we got the much better 16-35mm mark II. Had Canon stopped at 10 MP like people suggest, lots of other improvements would not be made in lenses and such. Same is true of the 7D being APS-C and not APS-H, it motivates Canon to make better EF-S glass. People should be careful what they ask for because getting might mean losing elsewhere.
The 5D2 is very usable off tripod with a shoulder mount or stabilizer. It could also be valuable for some PJ uses where they may have the only video camera on the scene, while it might be jerky, for news reporting jerky video is still better than no video.
For family or party video I wouldn’t use the DSLR unless I was really into editing video and amature movie making as a hobby. I sure dont pull out my DSLR to shoot family stuff most of the time. I have P&S’s for that. My guess is family/amature video should be optimised for youtube uploading, 720p is the most you need, but how many family dads and moms can edit 720p anyway? But it’s nice to have the option.
The 5D2 and 7D are not family targeted cameras. They are semipro or low end pro cameras, and in todays world HD video can add a lot of sales to those cameras.
Depends on what the MP ended up being. If it was 18MP FF with the 7D’s AF and 8 FPS it would probably be priced between the 5D2 and 1D3 and be the infamous 3D instead of the 7D perhaps. While I’d love to have a custom built camera to all my wishlist specs for cheap, I think Canon made a smart move on the 7D and will look to the 1D4 to be the fast FF pro body.
David, I have to disagree. 5D2 or any other FF dSLR has a fairly large amateur user base. Yes by spec it is semi-pro and lots of pro are using it. Though when you look at SLR market, the once dominated by pro market is now jammed by everyday people, including me.
I guess that is the benefit from computer science as well as internet.
My point is, for amateur photographer, it is a natural upgrade path for them to eventually go to 5D2. There is nothing wrong from tehm to use the 5D2 to shoot family portrait. One obvious benefit from this would be pictures for kids, or available light pictures at the party. Compact DCs, most of them anyway, are not suitable for this purpose.
One example on the other side is, the pros who suppose to use 1D/1Ds are now using 5D2, the semipro body, especially to shoot video.
Therefore I would think 5D2 is no black & white semipro level. It is a mix bag. You mentioned PJ. PJ wont be there if there is no digital camera (let it be iPhone or dSLR) and internet. Same for SLR, it is no longer for pros only.
I’m not saying no advanced amatures use the 5D2, just that it’s not targeted as a “family” camera like the 1000D or 500D.
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