Dynamic range comparison between the EOS RP, EOS 6D Mark II and EOS R

keithcooper · Feb 19, 2019

Any precis for those of us who can't be ****d to watch videos or might find the presenter somewhat irksome ;-) ?

Aussie shooter · Feb 19, 2019

keithcooper said:
Any precis for those of us who can't be ****d to watch videos or might find the presenter somewhat irksome ;-) ?

Slight improvement in DR at base ISO for the rp over the r. High ISO bout the same.

privatebydesign · Feb 19, 2019

The difference in colors is down to the way Adobe create their profiles. The R is a fraction worse than the 5D MkIV so I’d expect the RP to be a fraction worse than the 6D MkII, I’d expect that to be down to the more challenging micro lens angles as Digic 8 doesn’t really impact RAW processing as I understand it.

dsut4392 · Feb 19, 2019

Aussie shooter said:
Slight improvement in DR at base ISO for the rp over the r. High ISO bout the same.

Thank you.

dsut4392 · Feb 19, 2019

keithcooper said:
Any precis for those of us who can't be ****d to watch videos or might find the presenter somewhat irksome ;-) ?

Aye aye. The trend towards videos is so tedious.

digitalride · Feb 19, 2019

Aussie shooter said:
Slight improvement in DR at base ISO for the rp over the r. High ISO bout the same.

Are you sure about that? I took away that the RP is maybe slightly just a touch better than the 6Dii. The R is noticeably better than the RP. However I didn't watch the whole thing but tried to skip to the relevant sections.

Tom W · Feb 19, 2019

Aussie shooter said:
Slight improvement in DR at base ISO for the rp over the r. High ISO bout the same.

I think you might have that reversed - the R was definitely able to pull cleaner shadows up when raised 5 stops, compared to the RF. Granted, 5 stops is a lot, but it is a torture test.

dtaylor · Feb 20, 2019

keithcooper said:
Any precis for those of us who can't be ****d to watch videos or might find the presenter somewhat irksome ;-) ?

R handled a +5ev push fairly well (as expected). RP did not (as expected). Fro will slap you across the face if your exposure is off by -5ev (unexpected).

I don't have a fro but I'll throw in my 2 cents. Having played with 5D4 and 6D2 RAWs I would say that with a little post work you can push +5ev from the 5D4/R and +3ev from the 6D2/RP. (I'm judging the R and RP based on their sensor heritage and what I've seen online.) I can push the 5Ds +4ev. With post work you can push the Sony A7 gen 3's and the D8x0 series +6ev. (My frame of reference is landscape shots printable to at least 16x24 without seeing an IQ loss in the shadows.)

Tom W · Feb 20, 2019

dtaylor said:
R handled a +5ev push fairly well (as expected). RP did not (as expected). Fro will slap you across the face if your exposure is off by -5ev (unexpected).

I don't have a fro but I'll throw in my 2 cents. Having played with 5D4 and 6D2 RAWs I would say that with a little post work you can push +5ev from the 5D4/R and +3ev from the 6D2/RP. (I'm judging the R and RP based on their sensor heritage and what I've seen online.) I can push the 5Ds +4ev. With post work you can push the Sony A7 gen 3's and the D8x0 series +6ev. (My frame of reference is landscape shots printable to at least 16x24 without seeing an IQ loss in the shadows.)

Kind of "as expected", given the R sensor matches the 5D4 and the RP sensor matches the 6D2. I concur about the amount you can push shadows, though I seldom push more than 2 stops in practice, and only in exceptional scenes.

I'm a 5D4 shooter - love that camera. It's awesome. Still, I pre-ordered an RP just to get a taste of the FF mirrorless world. I won't be selling off my 5D4 any time soon, of course.

Also, I just ordered the 24-105 RF lens, after hemming and hawing a few days. Hard to go with such a small camera and then add a ton of lens and adapter just for a "regular" zoom lens. I know that lens will hold its value. And it's the smallest lens to fit the new package, outside of the 35/1.8.

tmroper · Feb 20, 2019

I like how he still has a link to buy the RP at the bottom. Always be closing!

Kharan · Feb 20, 2019

Tom W said:
I concur about the amount you can push shadows, though I seldom push more than 2 stops in practice, and only in exceptional scenes.

Well, that would prove the RP wholly inadequate with the 50mm f/1.2, for example - it has over 4 stops of vignetting in the sides and corners, which would make a simple correction already onerous with the 26 MP chip. And if you are shooting a scene that isn't flat or perfectly lit, or miss your exposure by a couple of stops, forget it - you'll either have to live with the vignetting or the noise.

Tom W · Feb 20, 2019

Well, in portraiture situations, when you want shallow DOF and the subject dominates center frame, vignetting really isn't much of an issue. Landscape, you're probably stopped down anyway so it won't be an issue. Even by f/2.8, it isn't an issue from what I've read. Haven't tried it yet, obviously, since I don't have the RP yet. I do have the EF 50/1.2 though.

dtaylor · Feb 20, 2019

Kharan said:
Well, that would prove the RP wholly inadequate with the 50mm f/1.2, for example - it has over 4 stops of vignetting in the sides and corners, which would make a simple correction already onerous with the 26 MP chip.

IF the vignetting covers deep shadows and IF you want to correct them.

And if you are shooting a scene that isn't flat or perfectly lit, or miss your exposure by a couple of stops, forget it - you'll either have to live with the vignetting or the noise.

IF there are deep shadows in the scene. We're talking about pushing stuff that would appear to be Zone 0 or 1 before the push in a correct exposure. If your scene doesn't have any of that then you have more room to move.

Pretty much any sensor in the 2000's had DR similar to the 6D2. I do recall needing to blend exposures for landscape scenes. And I remember doing some selective NR on tuxedos in some frames. But I don't recall being unable to correct vignetting or a 1-2 stop underexposure.

Surely we can construct a test scene where your concerns are validated, but does it occur with any frequency in the real world?

Kharan · Feb 20, 2019

dtaylor said:
IF the vignetting covers deep shadows and IF you want to correct them.

IF there are deep shadows in the scene. We're talking about pushing stuff that would appear to be Zone 0 or 1 before the push in a correct exposure. If your scene doesn't have any of that then you have more room to move.

Pretty much any sensor in the 2000's had DR similar to the 6D2. I do recall needing to blend exposures for landscape scenes. And I remember doing some selective NR on tuxedos in some frames. But I don't recall being unable to correct vignetting or a 1-2 stop underexposure.

Surely we can construct a test scene where your concerns are validated, but does it occur with any frequency in the real world?

Erm, anything covered by 4 stops of vignetting, unless you're shooting in a studio with a white background or a salt flat, is basically in shadows. If anything outside the center also happens to be darker than the middle, then there's no way to recover those areas to any reasonable degree. I assume one doesn't want to blow the lighter parts of the image, of course.
I often shoot scenes with broad DR. With my 1" camera, which has a similar DR to the 6D, I usually just bracket. I don't like it, but damn it's a convenient camera otherwise. However, I expect more from such a large sensor, especially because the look of native wide DR images tends to be nicer to my eye than that achieved by bracketing and merging exposures.

preppyak · Feb 20, 2019

dtaylor said:
Pretty much any sensor in the 2000's had DR similar to the 6D2.

The 6D sensor is fine...its just exactly what you said, years behind pretty much every other company. Its closer to matching a m4/3 sensor than what Sony is producing.

If I'm shooting outdoors, in shifting clouds, I might miss an exposure by a bit. Or on a bright day against an open background, the camera might miss the exposure some. Being able to shoot to save the higlights and push the shadows gives me a lot of room. And having the flexibility to work longer windows at sunrise/sunset without bracketing...especially on days without a lot of clouds. All scenarios where Sony saves me a lot of time post-processing. That's less time I spend in my hotel room processing and more time I have to explore the city I'm in.

Though Im far more annoyed with the battery life decision and the weird video crippling than I am with keeping the 6DII sensor

dtaylor · Feb 20, 2019

Kharan said:
Erm, anything covered by 4 stops of vignetting, unless you're shooting in a studio with a white background or a salt flat, is basically in shadows.

What's covered by the vignette would have to be a fairly dark shadow before any vignetting to give you any trouble.

Aussie shooter · Feb 20, 2019

digitalride said:
Are you sure about that? I took away that the RP is maybe slightly just a touch better than the 6Dii. The R is noticeably better than the RP. However I didn't watch the whole thing but tried to skip to the relevant sections.

Oops. Typo. O meant the rp was slightly better than the 6d2. Not the r.

Viggo · Feb 20, 2019

Kharan said:
Well, that would prove the RP wholly inadequate with the 50mm f/1.2, for example - it has over 4 stops of vignetting in the sides and corners, which would make a simple correction already onerous with the 26 MP chip. And if you are shooting a scene that isn't flat or perfectly lit, or miss your exposure by a couple of stops, forget it - you'll either have to live with the vignetting or the noise.

Yeah, this not true... It MIGHT have 4 stops in a lab test, and I asked the kind guys at TDP who posted that “4 stop vignetting” test how they got that results, because I was seeing about two stops, also I was about skip that lens because of it They explained that it’s a torture test and you probably never see four stops in any real life shot. And that’s true, vignetting with the RF50 is a none issue. You can notice it, but it’s nothing, absolutely nothing to worry about. And as for correction, also no issue even at higher iso’s.

AlanF · Feb 20, 2019

Viggo said:
Yeah, this not true... It MIGHT have 4 stops in a lab test, and I asked the kind guys at TDP who posted that “4 stop vignetting” test how they got that results, because I was seeing about two stops, also I was about skip that lens because of it They explained that it’s a torture test and you probably never see four stops in any real life shot. And that’s true, vignetting with the RF50 is a none issue. You can notice it, but it’s nothing, absolutely nothing to worry about. And as for correction, also no issue even at higher iso’s.

Optical limits found 3.24 ev at f/1.2: "Ultra-high speed lenses produce quite some vignetting on full format sensors and the RF 50mm f/1.2 USM L is no exception to the rule here. At f/1.2 the vignetting exceeds 3EV (f-stops) which is, of course, easily visible. For some this may be an issue whereas others may actually prefer such an effect. Stopping down to f/1.6 and, more so, to f/2 reduces the issue substantially albeit there's still some light falloff visible. Traces remain at f/4 and beyond." https://www.opticallimits.com/canon_eos_ff/1055-canonrf50f12?start=1

I can't see any real problem either.