Olympus announces the M-D E-M1X, an EOS-1D X Mark II killer?

[Ozarker]

I know my point was that what can be done “easily” with m4/3 isn’t automatically possible with full frame.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

 

[Don Haines]

I ask questions to try and understand what I don't understand, so please bear with me as I still don't understand. Your keep explaining why the MFT requires a huge amount of computing power, which I do understand. What I don't understand is why the FF should require double the computing power of the MFT. To my naif understanding, it seems that the MFT is producing data from 20.6mpx that has to be processed and the FF is producing a very similar 20.2 mpx of data and so the same amount of computing power is needed for image processing for both. So, where does the FF have to have double the computing power of the MFT? Is it because they will be using different AF systems or what?

I was trying to say that a 20 megapixel FF sensor and a 20 megapixel 4/3 sensor require the same amount of computing power, but that the AI enhanced AF modes on the Oly require substantially more computing power than the relatively simple AF modes on mirrored DSLRs

It looks like Olympus had to go big on this one for heat management and battery life.

 

[Don Haines]

I am tempted, temporarily anyway. Time will probably change that. Can't stand the ergonomics on my Olympus E-M5 Mark II, but this is different. If the grandson was school age and playing sports it would be much more tempting. If I were near a beach full of beach bunnies I think I'd get one for sure. This seems to be a really nice camera. I get good output from the one I have, I just hate the ergonomics. Of course if money wasn't a problem... 1DX II and a 600L would be my way forward.

Yes, I hate the ergonomics of the one at work. Large hands do not fit tiny cameras very well. If I were a foot shorter, I would probably have a different opinion

 

[Ozarker]

Yes, I hate the ergonomics of the one at work. Large hands do not fit tiny cameras very well. If I were a foot shorter, I would probably have a different opinion

Wow! Those are some long hands! Do y'all use an E-M5 at work? The ergonomics are the main gripe for me. That and battery life. I would say I only need the 40-150 and then the 300mm, but those fast primes have me very curious. I don't need to be curious.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think Don is saying EVF and hybrid or DP AF will hog up a ton of CPU relative to OVF and dedicated PDAF. So to get the exceptional AF of the 1DX2 on a mirrorless camera, it will take a lot more processing power.

It is much tougher to autofocus a camera as the sensor gets larger, the DOF decreases so AF must be more accurate. Canon uses DPAF which is very processor intensive for AF and tracking, but thats how it gets its performance. With a small sensor, you can get high performance for everything but low light and resolution.

 

[Aglet]

..but those fast primes have me very curious. I don't need to be curious.

you mean those "Bright Prime Lenses" in the future lenses category of the lens roadmap?..
or the existing f/1.2 Pro series?

As for the ergonomics, I prefer the 1 and 10 series over the 5 series bodies.

 

[Ozarker]

you mean those "Bright Prime Lenses" in the future lenses category of the lens roadmap?..
or the existing f/1.2 Pro series?

As for the ergonomics, I prefer the 1 and 10 series over the 5 series bodies.

The existing ED 45mm f/1.2 Pro, which is one of the bright primes in my book anyway. Do you think they'll make then even faster? Can't wait to see that. There are already some out there (f0.95).

 

[Chaitanya]

That 150-400mm lens is really interesting especially with small m43 sized sensor it really can be a good solution for wildlife. Though it's a ridiculous long wait.

 

[old-pr-pix]

Don: I agree, E-M5II can be awkwardly small, but adding the grip improves ergonomics significantly IMO. I was lucky enough to play with the E-M1X tonight and talk with a couple of the Olympus Visionaries. It's clearly targeted to be a mini 1DXII but its overall size is not a lot smaller, partly to allow for "better" button spacing. Big difference is body weight and eq. FL lens size & weight. Olympus has put a lot of features in it -- both hardware and firmware. (For what its worth, comment was made to anticipate more computational photography technology making its way into pro grade m43 cameras. ) 150-400 lens seems aimed at 2020 Olympics as well as wildlife shooters. Lens roadmap was likely an effort to counteract TN video claiming m43 is dead. The 50 mp hand-held high res. shots are amazing from small sensor. Of course, it is nearly the same price as a 5DsR.

 

[tmc784]

Spend $3800 for M3/4 ? no way !

 

[bhf3737]

When I want a small system, lenses and good quality photos I'd go for smaller sensor APS-C camera (EOS-M or Fuji) and when I want larger system, sharper lenses and better quality pictures I grab the full frame system.
I may be wrong but I think there are not many who may want a large system (look at the size of the 150-400mm lens, although excellent glass) and a small M3/4 sensor with the full frame system price point, unless the camera offers something drastically different than what I can get from a full frame system. Better weather sealing and having a few more frames does not cut it.

 

[AlanF]

It's a very interesting tour de force of technology, but it's not for me for my purposes. It's low density sensor gives hardly any more resolution than a high density FF, it weighs as much as a 5D (or more than an R) and I value the wide field of view and image quality of an FF sensor more than the high frame rate and pro view etc. But, I am sure it will delight others.

 

[Jack Douglas]

The comments I read suggested that in low light the AF tanks, and noise is a problem. We are always faced with required shooting parameters that force high ISO and I doubt this camera has solved that issue. IS doesn't solve subject movement. If you want/need high FPS does it not follow that it's because the subject is moving or at least some aspect of the subject is changing?

Here is my sample 1/1250 was not really fast enough. I was at F8 due to 800mm. So that left me with ISO 2000 (manual) and it was underexposed so I've had to push the shadows. Perhaps the correct ISO would have been 3200 or 6400. Maybe this new "smart" camera would have focused on the eyes but given the speed of movement I somehow doubt it - for sure my 1DX2 won't refocus as fast as this bird moves, so I'm dependent on luck with 14 FPS. Remember the new 1DX2 ad demonstrating "fast" AF with an otter running (plodding) straight towards the camera. Apparently Nikon does much better but I doubt it would be that much better here.

Jack

 

[mpb001]

I thought the whole idea of M4/3 was the smaller form factor? What happened to that idea?

 

[raptor3x]

I don't think it'll "tank" but it's not going to be a huge seller at that price when it has to compete with all the APSC & FF gear out there which are also very capable now.

I think it's niche will be rugged reportage and wildlife use where it can deliver adequate image quality in a smaller lighter package which will be up to the job in any weather. Not a big number in marketing but how many high end bodies does any mfr sell compared to their mainstream models? Existing MFT pro's who've been wishing for something a bit more beefy may be able justify adding this to their kit.

The problem is it offers almost nothing over the existing E-M1ii at nearly triple the current street price. The E-M1ii is smaller, has the same same, same AF system, same excellent weather sealing, same EVF, same drive modes. The only thing the E-M1X offers is the integrated grip and a, to be blunt, relatively minor firmware update. Heck, in many ways it's inferior to the $1200 Panasonic G9. They did a good job with the subject tracking for cars and trains but the actual AF system is exactly the same. I had fully intended to buy this camera before release, but Olympus has apparently been sitting on their hands for the last two years. This camera would have been great had they released it alongside the E-M1ii in 2016, but releasing this for $3K in 2019 is an absolute disaster for Olympus.

 

[Larsskv]

For those interested, Jared Polin did a preview of the camera after using it hands on. You can look it up on YouTube.

Summarized, the AF seems to be very good indeed, but he wasn’t impressed by the image quality. The main issue is the lack of depth of field. He found lack of bokeh and background separation. Further the ISO performance is poor compared to FF cameras. Last, he didn’t like the EVF at all. He found it to be the worst he had seen in years, mainly because of the lack of resolution.

 

[dak723]

The problem is it offers almost nothing over the existing E-M1ii at nearly triple the current street price. The E-M1ii is smaller, has the same same, same AF system, same excellent weather sealing, same EVF, same drive modes. The only thing the E-M1X offers is the integrated grip and a, to be blunt, relatively minor firmware update. Heck, in many ways it's inferior to the $1200 Panasonic G9. They did a good job with the subject tracking for cars and trains but the actual AF system is exactly the same. I had fully intended to buy this camera before release, but Olympus has apparently been sitting on their hands for the last two years. This camera would have been great had they released it alongside the E-M1ii in 2016, but releasing this for $3K in 2019 is an absolute disaster for Olympus.

It does offer a few more things than the EM-1 II:
Joystick to move AF points
Better weather sealing
More effective SSWF dust reduction filter
Hand held high res shooting
Improved IBIS - from 7 to 7.5 stops
Low light AF is now rated down to -6EV with use of F1.2 PRO lenses
Subject tracking
Added "My Menu" customizable menu folder
New Olympus Log format for video
Rated shutter life of 400,000 actuations
New video AF setting options
Simulated ND filters

 

[Don Haines]

We should not be fixating on the sensor, what is important here is that this shows what features can be expected with sufficient computing power.

 

[Ozarker]

The comments I read suggested that in low light the AF tanks, and noise is a problem. We are always faced with required shooting parameters that force high ISO and I doubt this camera has solved that issue. IS doesn't solve subject movement. If you want/need high FPS does it not follow that it's because the subject is moving or at least some aspect of the subject is changing?

Here is my sample 1/1250 was not really fast enough. I was at F8 due to 800mm. So that left me with ISO 2000 (manual) and it was underexposed so I've had to push the shadows. Perhaps the correct ISO would have been 3200 or 6400View attachment 182798. Maybe this new "smart" camera would have focused on the eyes but given the speed of movement I somehow doubt it - for sure my 1DX2 won't refocus as fast as this bird moves, so I'm dependent on luck with 14 FPS. Remember the new 1DX2 ad demonstrating "fast" AF with an otter running (plodding) straight towards the camera. Apparently Nikon does much better but I doubt it would be that much better here.

Jack

I sure do admire your photos, Jack!

 

[AlanF]

I looked at the MFT forum on fredmiranda. The new Oly is not going down that well. Complaints about old technology in a new body.