Canon EOS 90D and Canon EOS M6 Mark II announcements coming at the end of August

[EduPortas]

How do you know using a 90D would be a step down without knowing the true specs yet? My hunch is it will have much better DR than a 7D as well as other improved features, especially if Canon is considering making the 90D an amalgamation of an 80D and 7DII.

It's a step up for 80D users, but 7DM2 owners are a completely different set of buyers.

If Canon intend to merge both series they would be wise to call this model by a completely new nomenclature.

But they won't, because a 7D Mark III will come out for Tokyo 2020 Olympiad. If it does not, I'll eat my shoe.

 

[EduPortas]

Short of putting a hose on them I can't give you a demo but the 7d2 is sealed to the 1d level. I am not sure exactly what level the 80d is but I would guess around the 6d level. So third tier. But there are more things than just weather sealing to robustness. More metal, less plastic. Everything inside built just that little bit stronger. All components that bit better quality. These are the areas I imagine the 90d will fall short.
It will absolutely be good enough for most people though. Especially enthusiasts. Not sure how many pros will get it as a serious second body

This is spot on. It's very difficult to actually explain why the 7D series is so beloved to someone who has never handled one.

There's a very distinct difference between the 80D and the 7DM2. It's not just specs. It feels better and respondes quicker. Everything is exactly where you need it to be. No fluff. It just shoots and makes your job easier (two card slots helps a lot).

One often overlooked fact about the 7Dm2: it has a special shutter mechanism shared only with the 1D series, according to Imaging Resource. This results in less vibration and a longer shutter life.

 

[Otara]

Not everyone who has a 7D2 has loved it over the 80D. I liked the tilt screen and sensor of the 80D and its better video. If it had the 7D2's AF options, Id probably have preferred it overall. Even the expanded AF would probably been enough.

Will be very interesting to see the balance with the 90D.

 

[Aussie shooter]

Not everyone who has a 7D2 has loved it over the 80D. I liked the tilt screen and sensor of the 80D and its better video. If it had the 7D2's AF options, Id probably have preferred it overall. Even the expanded AF would probably been enough.

Will be very interesting to see the balance with the 90D.

If you bought the 7d2 as a video camera I'd say you bought wrong. If you haven't and are just referring to your final choice being the 80d then no surprises there. None of us are talking about the 7d2 as a video camera. It isn't. We are talking about it as a 7d2 and why the 90d will be a step down from it in it's capacity as a pro aps-c action stills camera.

 

[Otara]

I had both at the same time, till the 80D died as I described earlier, still have the 7D2. Predominantly stills, but like the all rounder aspect of video as well.

Your step down isnt everyones, it depends on what you liked about it.

 

[Aussie shooter]

I had both at the same time, till the 80D died as I described earlier, still have the 7D2. Predominantly stills, but like the all rounder aspect of video as well.

Your step down isnt everyones, it depends on what you liked about it.

Obviously. Which is why everyone has been saying it will be a step down in some aspects. Not all. But there is no way it can be considered a replacement for a 7d2 as it cannot do what a 7d2 can in respect to durability. It can for an 80d however. Ergo it is a step down from a 7d2 overall and a step up from an 80d overall.

 

[Jasonmc89]

With my 80D noise becomes a major issue at ISO's above 1250, and even at ISO 1250 there's quite a lot of noise in most of my shots. I can clean the images up quite well at ISO 1250 but anything over that becomes a major task in post. ISO 2000 on my 80D is basically unusable. (I'm shooting in the woods all the time and dealing with major highlights and shadows in each image also).
I've noticed if I'm shooting birds or airplanes in low light with the sky as a background, shots at ISO 2000 are sometimes usable/savable.
I've been heavily using my 80D since it was released in 2016, I pretty much know every trick/setting with it to get the most out of it.
Regardless, some of the best wildlife shots I've ever got has been with the 80D.....

I agree, with the harshest of shadows and highlights it will struggle. Nail the exposure in camera (no so easy in forests, I know!) though and you can push the iso a lot more!

 

[-pekr-]

It's a step up for 80D users, but 7DM2 owners are a completely different set of buyers.

If Canon intend to merge both series they would be wise to call this model by a completely new nomenclature.

But they won't, because a 7D Mark III will come out for Tokyo 2020 Olympiad. If it does not, I'll eat my shoe.

If 7D III will come as you suggest, then 90D specs are unprecedented in terms of the xxD line of cameras imo - dual slots, dual Digic? But who knows, maybe Canon wants to more differentiate 77D to 90D lines. What I expect (not that it matters) is, that there is not going to be a 7D III as we know it, but later on, there is going to be high performance R camera instead. On the other hand and according to rumours, 1D III seems to be planned, so who knows, maybe even the 7D III gets released in the end.

 

[SecureGSM]

Can I just quickly share my view on the "7 III to be or not not be" issue....

assuming Canon solved the sensor readout speed issue (there are indications this has been solved), then a MILC 51.2MP FF Canon R camera at @10fps would be equivalent to what 7D II offers in terms of speed and resolution.. if so, then a weather proofed to the level of 5D body, FF R camera can serve the 7D II purpose with certain limitations around: battery life, EVF instead of OVF (well, tough luck really, we have to adopt..), with added benefits of Eye AF, better tracking (potentially, not in current Canon implementation - which is a big one for a wildlife / sport shooters), live histogram, and so on and so forth).. so.. due to higher readout speed capabilities, the high frame rate feature previously available in either APS-C format or a lower resolution FF there is a clear use case for a universal semi-pro 50-ish MP FF camera with either 10-20 FPS crop readout mode or 10-12-ish FPS in a FF read out mode.
I dare to say, that due to Canon sensor technology, advancements and APS-C vs FF sensor price convergence, the price / performance advantage of high FPS semi-pro camera like 7D II vs FF 5Ds/R is no longer the case.

 

[Otara]

Obviously. Which is why everyone has been saying it will be a step down in some aspects. Not all. But there is no way it can be considered a replacement for a 7d2 as it cannot do what a 7d2 can in respect to durability. It can for an 80d however. Ergo it is a step down from a 7d2 overall and a step up from an 80d overall.

Well it will be a potential replacement for me, and I think Ive done some fairly extensive practical testing when it comes to durability with both. But I respect that for you the build of the 7D2 is a significant factor, and that it is presumably irritating that this has a fair chance of being deprioritised with this next model.

 

[-pekr-]

Can I just quickly share my view on the "7 III to be or not not be" issue....

assuming Canon solved the sensor readout speed issue (there are indications this has been solved), then a MILC 51.2MP FF Canon R camera at @10fps would be equivalent to what 7D II offers in terms of speed and resolution.. if so, then a weather proofed to the level of 5D body, FF R camera can serve the 7D II purpose with certain limitations around: battery life, EVF instead of OVF (well, tough luck really, we have to adopt..), with added benefits of Eye AF, better tracking (potentially, not in current Canon implementation - which is a big one for a wildlife / sport shooters), live histogram, and so on and so forth).. so.. due to higher readout speed capabilities, the high frame rate feature previously available in either APS-C format or a lower resolution FF there is a clear use case for a universal semi-pro 50-ish MP FF camera with either 10-20 FPS crop readout mode or 10-12-ish FPS in a FF read out mode.
I dare to say, that due to Canon sensor technology, advancements and APS-C vs FF sensor price convergence, the price / performance advantage of high FPS semi-pro camera like 7D II vs FF 5Ds/R is no longer the case.

So the basic idea might be to have enough high resolution FF chip and allow something like a crop mode (reading-out just a part of the frame), hence reaching even higher read-outs (fps)?

Such scenario might actually work and imo is more than probable, if new Canon sensor tech is coming and if it fulfils those needs. It is more than probable, due to some other factors:

1) I don't think 7D III is probable in an M mount form, due to the ergonomy ppl are expecting, unless Canon would decide to make the body bigger, which then denies an overal M advantage.

2) APS-C in an R body - I think it is possible, but most think that it is not probable scenario and I can agree, that it might not happen too.

3) 90D being a merge of xxD and 7D lines is a possibility, but what about the price? If it is going to be more expensive, than historically xxD line was, ppl might refrain from an upgrade of their xxD bodies. If it is cheaper than 7D line was, Canon would lose some money here.

So yes, high megapixel, high performance R body might be an answer. OTOH - the same could be said about the 1DX III - rumours are, that it is still going to be a DSLR, so who really knows what's the answer for a 7DII replacement .....

 

[SecureGSM]

So the basic idea might be to have enough high resolution FF chip and allow something like a crop mode (reading-out just a part of the frame), hence reaching even higher read-outs (fps)?

Such scenario might actually work and imo is more than probable, if new Canon sensor tech is coming and if it fulfils those needs. It is more than probable, due to some other factors:

1) I don't think 7D III is probable in the M mount form, due to ergonomy ppl are expecting, unless Canon would decide to make the body bigger, which then denies an overal M advantage.

2) APS-C in an R body - I think it is possible, but most think that it is not probable scenario and I can agree, that it might not happen too.

3) 90D being a merge of xxD and 7D line is a possibility, but what about the price? If it is going to be more expensive, than historically xxD line was, ppl might refrain from the upgrade. If it is cheaper than 7D line was, Canon would lose some money.

So yes, high megapixel, high performance R body might be an answer. OTOH - the same could be said about 1DX III - rumours are, that it is still going to be a DSLR, so who really knows .....

... something like a crop mode: is already available.. this is my point. an EF-S lens attached to Canon R via EF-to RF adaptor being recognised and camera sets itself in "Crop" mode. so.. 50-ish MP FF camera body with faster readout in FF or even just crop mode is all you need
1. you are correct.
2. not happening - FF R system body in a crop mode instead.. please see above.

 

[Aussie shooter]

Well it will be a potential replacement for me, and I think Ive done some fairly extensive practical testing when it comes to durability with both. But I respect that for you the build of the 7D2 is a significant factor, and that it is presumably irritating that this has a fair chance of being deprioritised with this next model.

Very irritating. But there is no way they can keep the price down and specs up without sacrificing build quality.

 

[haggie]

You're missing the point. Originally the 1D series was both: 1D for action, 1Ds for high resolution landscape/studio. Canon eventually made the cheaper 5D series the landscape/studio camera.

The post I was responding to claimed that Canon would never make a 90D good enough to serve as a 7D mark III because Canon would never do 'something like that', make a cheaper series replace a more expensive one. But they have. And let us not forget that the xxD series was once everything people came to expect the 7D series to be: tough sealed magnesium bodies, action orientated, etc. Canon introduced the 7D so that they had room to make the xxD series more 'prosumer' orientated. Who is to say they aren't merging the lines again and the xxD won't be every bit as tough as the 7Ds were?



And what if the 90D uses the rumored M6 II sensor and can do 16 fps (mirror up) with AF/AE? Then what?

The badge is not 'magic'. The specs determine what the camera can do.

Apparently you are missing your own point, dear dtaylor.

I wrote "You cannot realistically expect that Canon will deliver a camera named xxD and priced at around USD 1400.00 to be as good an action camera as a camera from the xD-series..." and then you replied with a comparison about a landscapeing/studio camera (5D), derived from an action camera (1D).

Apparently you also missed that I explicitly wrote about action photography, not the landscaping/studio that you introduced and based your wrong conclusion on.
But your comparison does show something that we can use for our expectations of the 90D as an action camera: just as the 5D is no better action camera than the 1D (your comparison, not mine), so will the 90D not be a better action camera than the 7D Mk II.

I really do not see why you want to argue that statement by introducing irrelevant comparisons and misrepresenting the specifics of what I wrote.
And also, I never said Canon could not make the 90D to be a good all-round camera; in fact I wrote that I expected the opposite to be the case .........

So once again, especially for you I will repeat what I wrote:
the 90D will never match the 7D Mk II as an action camera, let alone that the 90D will be an improvement on the 7D Mk II for action photography.

PM To refresh your memory, I wrote that in reply to an earlier post that expected the same from the 90D and drawing the conclusion "I'll stick with my 7DM2 for as long as I can".

 

[blackcoffee17]

Can I just quickly share my view on the "7 III to be or not not be" issue....

assuming Canon solved the sensor readout speed issue (there are indications this has been solved), then a MILC 51.2MP FF Canon R camera at @10fps would be equivalent to what 7D II offers in terms of speed and resolution.. if so, then a weather proofed to the level of 5D body, FF R camera can serve the 7D II purpose with certain limitations around: battery life, EVF instead of OVF (well, tough luck really, we have to adopt..), with added benefits of Eye AF, better tracking (potentially, not in current Canon implementation - which is a big one for a wildlife / sport shooters), live histogram, and so on and so forth).. so.. due to higher readout speed capabilities, the high frame rate feature previously available in either APS-C format or a lower resolution FF there is a clear use case for a universal semi-pro 50-ish MP FF camera with either 10-20 FPS crop readout mode or 10-12-ish FPS in a FF read out mode.
I dare to say, that due to Canon sensor technology, advancements and APS-C vs FF sensor price convergence, the price / performance advantage of high FPS semi-pro camera like 7D II vs FF 5Ds/R is no longer the case.

A FF 51.2MP FF R camera with 10fps will be way out of the 7D's price range, i would say more than double. One of the main selling points of the 7D was that you got almost a mini 1DX for less than third of the price.

 

[SecureGSM]

A FF 51.2MP FF R camera with 10fps will be way out of the 7D's price range, i would say more than double. One of the main selling points of the 7D was that you got almost a mini 1DX for less than third of the price.

yep, it may be in US$2500+ territory. but previously was available in FF at 1D level only. how much was that? you know, right..
so, my point is: price is converging.. not much of a difference as in 7D II vs 1Dx II. as per above.

 

[neo302]

You’re providing feedback to other users on features important to you, and you’re not providing it to anyone who can act on your feedback. In regard to the cameras supposedly being announced this month, your feedback is irrelevant since it’s far too late to change anything about them.

Canon doesn’t really care if you don’t buy Canon, you’re one person. Canon has a long history of making cameras that the majority of ILC buyers want to purchase. They’ve done so successfully for >16 years without your feedback.

I can’t speak for others, but I’m not especially concerned about Canon’s profit. It’s solid enough that there’s no worry about them exiting the ILC market. Regardless, as an individual you are essentially irrelevant to their profit.

It’s good to know you’re not ovine. Otherwise I’d be quite curious about a keyboard that works for hooves.

Funny at the reaction from wanting clean hdmi out is. I guess I’m the only one that wants it and anyone else that does is just one person that Canon doesn’t care about. If that is the mentality that you allegedly have insight to, I really don’t feel good about that hubris mentality which has led to the decline of major corporations over time.

 

[EduPortas]

If you bought the 7d2 as a video camera I'd say you bought wrong. If you haven't and are just referring to your final choice being the 80d then no surprises there. None of us are talking about the 7d2 as a video camera. It isn't. We are talking about it as a 7d2 and why the 90d will be a step down from it in it's capacity as a pro aps-c action stills camera.

And yet it's still a decent video machine thanks to its DPAF system.
Pair it with a 18-135 STM lens and Canon's own power zoom add-on and you've got a nice setup.

 

[Architect1776]

90D better have clean HDMI out

I believe so. They got the laundry working again.

 

[Jasonmc89]

Everybody seems to be forgetting that the 90D is rumoured to have 2 digics. Doesn’t sound like a normal 80D upgrade to me. We’ll see soon enough..