Canon EOS R5 firmware update coming soon, RAW light to be added? [CR2]

[Bert63]

Raw lite at 4k120 would be fantastic. H265 is not a good codec to use. I’d rather pay more for storage than deal with that codec

And you can always compress to H265 if that suits later...

 

[mkamelg]

https://www.direstudio.com/shuttercount/whatsnew/en/

Version 4.5

New features:

• Added support for Canon EOS R5. Due to bugs in this camera's firmware, establishing a connection via Wi-Fi may take unusually long (up to 1 minute).

Fixes:

• Fixed a possible crash when IPTC information is applied to a camera having no IPTC set beforehand.

So an firmware update would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Andy Westwood]

The best firmware update so far for the EOS R Series was when Canon released version 1.4.0 for the EOS R it was like using a new camera the eye AF and AF in general was so much improved in one simple upload.

Let’s hope Canon continue this, supporting their customers with not only minor fixes but real leap forwards in usability.

 

[Baron_Karza]

Perhaps you should have beta tested your post longer because it seems like you are just taking a jab at the R5 for no reason and from a position of being uninformed. You made no thorough or credible arguments and seem to not realize the R5 is already what you hope Canon has the sense to come out with. Canon are not the ones being completely short sighted here.

The R5 already has no issues with photos with incredible noise and DR performance. It does quality detailed stills and basic 4k video all day long without any problems, with a great workflow better than any past Canon and arguably competitor offerings. Do you even have the camera or just another on the hype train bashing? Have you bothered to go see the sensor measurements? Have you listened to anyone who actually has the camera and is getting great results? What is your background in electronics design? Do you also have experience in mechanical engineering with specific focus on 3D thermal analyses? Your understanding of how heat sinks work is flawed if you think they can be kept in a tiny enclosure without adequate ambient airflow, and this body could never hold a fan. Adding all that garbage would ruin an already great stills camera and defeat half its features. Your claim that a processing board 'over' (it is behind it) the processor is some clear flaw is ridiculous. How do you know the PCB doesn't have a massive copper fill to move heat? Have you seen the PCB layer breakout? Without a 3D thermal analysis on an entire device this complex, one which considers component power dissipation, material thermal resistivity, ambient conditions, etc. and does that in all operating modes, none of this speculation means a thing.

The R5 is a powerhouse in a tiny body, obviously it can generate some heat in the high throughput video modes. So what? No other camera this size can even come close because no one has tried. The options are remove features or realize it is a great tool with limitations many will find acceptable. The R5 is what Canon intended all along, a mirrorless 5D5 replacement STILLS camera with limited very high quality video that offers incredible value for SOME people and others should go buy something better suited to their work. The only thing that continues to plague the R5 are the people who have no idea what it was designed for and think it is somehow fatally flawed.

I agree with most of what you wrote but you can't fault people for this one thing.

This is Canon's fault that all this confusion was created.

But people who now are informed with all the different types of scenarios the heating issues causes, should no longer be confused if this is the camera for them. The thing is, there are so many scenarios due to so many variables, that it is hard to know 100% for sure if this is the camera for everyone considering it.

As of now, I will probably get the R6.

 

[nikkito]

I hope they will add the possibility of taking photos with it.

 

[David - Sydney]

In addition is what I consider to be the most important benefit of CRL: Lower bandwith/frame sizes. That will create a chain reaction of goodness, including less stress/heat on the CFexpress card.

WIll this mean that CRlite will be able to record on the USH-II SD card?

 

[David - Sydney]

Well, HDMI 2.0 only supports 8K30P 8-bit, 4:2:0, no HDR, and that's a huge downgrade from 8K 12 bit 4:2:2. HDMI 2.0 only supports 8K UHD ( 7680 x 4320 ) and not 8K DCI (8192 x 4320). Unless there's a HDMI 2.1 in the R5 now enabled in a future firmware update (or possible with a future hardware upgrade) there won't be 8K or 4K120P available for external recording.

According to Max Yuryev, 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 hardware codecs exist today but 4:2:2 don't (except for the iPad Pro). Having the option of 4:2:0 may be beneficial for work streams even though it is poorer quality. I'm waiting to upgrade my old macbook pro to a new one when they switch to Arm processors which should have this hardware codec in them. I don't want to hang onto a new macbook pro for years when it can't process the video efficiently.
Separately, I also believe that there won't be able HDMI2.1 certified cables available until the end of the year. Your current cables may work but aren't certified. It would be really bleeding edge to have a HDMI2.1 port on the R5 when you can't officially connect to it. Doesn't sound like Canon - does it?

 

[David - Sydney]

To me, it is people complaining they can't use a feature as much as they say they'd like to without doing something to make it more appropriate. Some of them don't have the camera, never had the camera, never intended to buy the camera. Honestly, an external recorder seems to be the biggest and best work around, except for 8k. I know, people don't want to use external recorders, I guess, but all the complaining seems to be dumpster fires of the Id.

Canon EOS R5 records 4 hours of 4KHQ 30p to an external recorder, with a couple of simple tweaks

Wayne from No Life Digital has posted a video to his YouTube channel showing how he got the Canon EOS R5 to record 4 hours of 4KHQ 30p video to an Atomos Ninja V before the camera overheated. Simply by removing the memory cards from the camera while recording externally lead to a big boost in...

www.canonrumors.com

Replicating Wayne's results appears to be problematic but PAL vs NTSC times does appear to be signifcantly different
I don't have an external recorder and cannot test my R5 but the setup details are important

 

[mppix]

HDMI 2.0 supports up to 8k@30 8 bit. But it’s not actually documented anywhere which standard the R5 has. Even after speaking with Canon tech support I could not learn weather it is 2.0 or 2.1. So it remains a mystery as to which spec is supported.

Canon has always been slow in adopting new HDMI standards (see 5Div). R5 is almost certainly HDMI2.0 since the advanced_user_manual states that HDMI-output of 8K-movies yields 4K-movies.

Hence, I don't think we'll see 8K HDMI output unless they decide to implement 8bit 420 in general. That code may have other use cases too as most modern GPU will happily de/encode 8bit 420 but not 10bit 422

Video Encode and Decode GPU Support Matrix

Find the related video encoding and decoding support for all NVIDIA GPU products.

developer.nvidia.com

Do you prefer 8K 8bit 420 or 4K 10bit 422?

 

[ashmadux]

Let's hope this will kill all the talk about overheating once and for all.

it wont.

Lord knows that extra angry guy at eoshd will keep the hits coming, petapixel will pick up on it, and dpreview will eventually have something to say too. that guys has problems.

"im actually a filmmaker, those guys (dpreview's jordan) are not! they dont know anything, only i do! disagree with me and ill boot you from my blog comments!" *

Annnnnnnd this story's rat wheel will begun spinning again for another 3 weeks.

* That last part is not made up... he actively threatens to remove users that dont lap up his crisis-level anger at canon. It's pathetic.

 

[Otara]

I love my R5, but the recovery times are a bit too mystical and seem oddly long. I dont find it directly impacts me so much as it seems - weird.

Finding out there is an ignore function has made the threads much easier to read. Personal attacks, ALL CAPS and more than one exclamation mark are a pretty good starting point for consideration.

 

[Aregal]

CLog3 is great (for those who like to color grade)

I only have a few menu items or UI items to nitpick, like being able to add a few more functions to buttons, or being able to split dial customization for AV/TV/M mode. I like being able to use the back wheel for quick AF switching in AV mode. For now I’m relying on C1 to remember that so it doesn’t rob my M mode of aperture. I use top dial for exposure adjustment.

Also, I would love to get a precision focus for infinity (imagine as you slow your focus, the range expands and lets you find the actual infinity point and lock it). The last one is easiest, can we get the zoom indicator on the display or viewfinder? I’d like to know what I’m zoomed to without looking at the lens.

Canon Log 3 was touted as the “Goldilocks” Canon log because it required minimal grading yet retained a good amount of DR over Canon Log 1. Canon Log 2 is the super flat log Canon Made.

 

[mppix]

And you know this how? Because it sounds like an assumption, whereas in testing there seems to be something other than heat dissipation driving recovery times. Indeed, it seems that regardless of temperature the recovery times remain constant.

This is of course not an exact science but I'll give it a try:

Let us assume that when electronic devices are off, the firmware is not active (and no internal heat is generated)*.

Then, the constant recovery time is physics: temperatures reach equilibrium with an exponential function with time constant Tau (first order approximation that is quite accurate for a passive cool-down case). You need ~5*Tau to reach equilibrium independent form the initial and final temperature. From independent cool-down measurements, the R5's Tau is somewhere between 15-30 min.
This does 2 things: it prevents the camera from heating up when used and prevents the camera from cooling down afterwards.

It may be possible to do better calculations to improve cool-down marginally. However, it makes absolutely no sense to expect a significantly faster cool-down. For that, one would need a better heat transfer (resulting in a smaller Tau). If the internals can take higher temperatures, they may be able to reach operating points closes to equilibrium (I think this is how Sony fixes overheating). Unfortunately, evidence suggests that the R5 is quite far from thermal equilibrium. To reach equilibrium, the internal temperature (difference vs. external) would need to be increased in excess of 37%. I'd be surprised if they have that design margin.

* This hypothesis may not be true in general. However, I would suggest it is true for the extent and purpose of this discussion since batteries don't drain within hours or days when electronic devices are permanently off.

 

[DBounce]

THE R5 DOES NOT OVERHEAT - FEATURE LOCKOUT IS DELIBERATE

It’s official... the high quality modes are locked out due to a firmware cripple... The R5 does not overheat at all. It a deliberate cripple by Canon to protect their cinema line... nothing more.

Here is a detailed test using temperature readings stored as metadata in the EXIF of the jpeg stills. An intervalometer was used to automatically take a stills image every 5 minutes to plot the internal camera temperature while idle until the automatic feature lockout activated. The finding showed a steady constant temperature of 46c. No raise in temperature precipitated the activation of the lockout.

Canon you are officially busted!!!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293339067170643969

 

[mppix]

Raw lite at 4k120 would be fantastic. H265 is not a good codec to use. I’d rather pay more for storage than deal with that codec

I hear this quite a bit but always wondered why. Can you explain?

Initially, I always thought this was due to computation power but most GPUs today support h255 encode/decode (except for 4:2:2 chroma subsampling that lacks support independent from codec and bitrate)

Video Encode and Decode GPU Support Matrix

Find the related video encoding and decoding support for all NVIDIA GPU products.

developer.nvidia.com

Then, I'd prefer AV1 (no license fees baked in) but that actually has less support.

 

[syder]

Which part is wrong? That sigma 18-35 1.8 is a great lens that would fix the issue with having to work with the x1.7 crop (someone mentioned x1.6 as well, so I'm not sure which is correct) for the wide shots.

More to the point, if theres a PL mount adapter for the R5 that you can mount super 35 sized glass onto, wouldnt that then work perfectly with the crop for 4k?

Do I have that wrong? Let me know, I'm my head it should...

S35 is a 1.4x crop. It's not the same size or shape as a Canon APS-C 1.6x crop sensor.

For example the 7D has a 22.3 x 14.9mm sensor while the C300iii has a 26.2 x 13.8 sensor.

 

[Ozarker]

THE R5 DOES NOT OVERHEAT - FEATURE LOCKOUT IS DELIBERATE

It’s official... the high quality modes are locked out due to a firmware cripple... The R5 does not overheat at all. It a deliberate cripple by Canon to protect their cinema line... nothing more.

Here is a detailed test using temperature readings stored as metadata in the EXIF of the jpeg stills. An intervalometer was used to automatically take a stills image every 5 minutes to plot the internal camera temperature while idle until the automatic feature lockout activated. The finding showed a steady constant temperature of 46c. No raise in temperature precipitated the activation of the lockout.

Canon you are officially busted!!!

Yeah, okay.

 

[mppix]

THE R5 DOES NOT OVERHEAT - FEATURE LOCKOUT IS DELIBERATE

It’s official... the high quality modes are locked out due to a firmware cripple... The R5 does not overheat at all. It a deliberate cripple by Canon to protect their cinema line... nothing more.

Here is a detailed test using temperature readings stored as metadata in the EXIF of the jpeg stills. An intervalometer was used to automatically take a stills image every 5 minutes to plot the internal camera temperature while idle until the automatic feature lockout activated. The finding showed a steady constant temperature of 46c. No raise in temperature precipitated the activation of the lockout.

Canon you are officially busted!!!

(1) eoshd is a drama queen
(2) interesting
(3) unfortunately pointless unless they can match their findings with a 3D thermal CFD model of the camera and know exactly where the thermal sensor is (it is usually not in the hot spot)

 

[DBounce]

(1) eoshd is a drama queen
(2) interesting
(3) unfortunately pointless unless they can match their findings with a 3D thermal CFD model of the camera and know exactly where the thermal sensor is (it is usually not in the hot spot)

The readings track closely to the flir imagery from a couple days ago. There will be dozens of videos on YouTube and articles over the next few days.
Silly rabbit ... looks like you backed the wrong horse:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1293339067170643969

 

[SteveC]

I hope they will add the possibility of taking photos with it.

Oh, you can take pictures with it.

You just can't take pictures without simultaneously hearing the din of people kvetching about the video modes (either unhappy that they're there, or that they don't work well enough).;