Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R5 C

[tomislavmoze]

I think Canon is very aware of the market segment of people doing both. As @jam05 said above, many pros have more than one body. I imagine that Canon knows who their customer is, and it's the hybrid shooter that has more than one camera. Now instead of having an R5 for stills and a C70 or C200 for video, a shooter can have an R5c for stills and 8k raw video as well as a smaller camera for gimbal work with superior AF to the rest of the cinema line, as well as their C70/C200 for lockdown shots etc.

I think that this idea that there should be one camera for all things is an antiquated mindset. These are professional tools with specific use cases. I use a 2x R6 bodies for shooting events and when I need more mpix or higher res video, I rent an R5 or C70, or use my backup 5Div.

You misunderstood what I said, I had a few shots where I was shooting a model in one set doing photos and video at the same time, switching between cameras would not be time efficient for me. It was basically I take 10 photos switch to video mode on my R5 and do a clip of a video. The problem with R5 and R6 is that it overheats after a while for the video since it accumulate heat while doing photos. (R6 is a bit better regarding that). The other scenario was where I was covering a hiking event doing photo and video, two cameras are no go since you have to set up your equipment as light as possible.
Also I know a lot of wedding shooters that have the sam approach when doing weddings, they do a video sequence and switch to photo and do photos after. Photojournalist for Reuters are doing also video clips and photos at the same time. I think one camera for everything is a thing of a future not the past. Since there are more and more hybrid shooters.

 

[unfocused]

Hybrid shooter and C300 III and R5 owner who's looked at the C70 with a lot of interest but never pulled the trigger. This was an easy preorder. Canon priced it at the exactly right number to be competitive.

A few things that stand out to me:

No IBIS is a good thing for video -- it drives me crazy on the R5 because it couldn't always be disabled depending on the lens (I don't know if firmware has corrected this).

Micro HDMI is surprising, but in fairness the point of the camera is to have everything in-body in a small package. This isn't a big studio production camera... it's run and gun fun. The C70 is still the better option at this price point if you're someone who wants to rig up with external monitors, V-mount batteries, etc.

XFAVC, higher bitrates, the two different menu systems, C-series features such as false color, and obviously the unlimited record time really make this a compelling camera for a hybrid shooter. You don't need anything else except ND and a lot of batteries.

If you ONLY do video, the C70 is still the obvious option in my opinion.

Thanks for being a voice of reason in a sea of drama queens.

Amused by your comment about needing a lot of batteries. One of the first things I wondered about was what the battery life was going to be on this baby, especially since the battery has to run a fan and power accessories through the new hotshoe. I doubt if the external grip will fit the new design and it may not be practical even if it does.

 

[Respinder]

Wow - thats all I can say at this point.
I was so looking forward to this camera, and everything in the video was going great - until, of course, he started saying "the still imaging features and operation of the EOS R5C are nearly identical".. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop after that. I had long predicted that IBIS would likely not make it in this camera, due to Canon's past practices of subtracting features in order to differentiate their product line. And of course, its missing. And Ill say it now - without IBIS, this camera is junk.

For me, this is really depressing. I'm still using my 5D Mark III from 10 years ago - not because I can't afford to buy another camera - but because I haven't found a camera that Canon has yet made that checks off all the boxes I need. All I've been waiting for since the beginning is a proper hybrid - a photo-video shooting product. Without IBIS, this product simply can't compete in the photography realm.

And when Canon inconsistently applies IBIS to their products, it also creates overall inconsistency with product expectations. For instance, Sony has IBIS in all of their pro models, including their video-oriented a7S III (!). This means that when you stick on a lens between an a7S, an a7R, an a7, an a9 or an a1, you know how the lens and body will give you a stabilized image, since all of these models have in-body stabilization. With Canon, there's no such consistency - you still have the EOS R and RP models without in-body stabilization, the R5/R6/R3 with stabilization, and now the R5C without - its really inconsistent, and it makes this complicated for the end user. For instance, should I buy the 24-70 f2.8 lens with in-lens stabilization, or the 28-70 f2 without? On a R3/R5/R6, this doesn't matter since the in-body stabilization is great and both lenses will perform great. But now on a R5C, suddenly that in-lens stabilization is a requirement.

As is always the case when Canon releases a new product and subtracts desired features, I see folks on here trying to defend the decisions - either by stating videographers don't need IBIS or that Canon came through on the price. I would gladly had paid more money for a more complete product. And not everyone uses gimbals for stabilization! And lastly, these cameras are expensive!

For context - I'm in Canada, so a R5C plus battery grip, extra battery, 512 GB CExpress card, RF-EF adapter plus 24-70 f2.8 lens would cost nearly $10K Canadian. If I'm paying that much for a camera, it had better be perfect. No missing features. Right now, for me, this camera is a non-starter, and I am left to ponder whether Canon will ever release a product free from feature subtraction/crippling/etc.

Also please note that this continued issue of feature subtraction/crippling is uniquely a Canon issue. I don't know any other company that does this. Certainly, Sony and Nikon do not. They both put their best foot forward in releasing the best products that people want to buy without the need to diminish features. Canon on the other hand keeps on doing the same thing again and again - releasing products with key features subtracted, forcing you to buy MORE products.

And its sad because I feel that Canon doesn't understand customer needs. More photographers shoot video (in addition to photos) than ever before. Many people brought this up when the original overheating issues concerning the R5 came up. All Canon needed to do was respect the wishes of hybrid shooters and actually create a camera that meets both target needs, which Sony, and now Nikon with the Z9, have done.

This ongoing issue with Canon has just gotten too ridiculous for me. But in hindsight, I suppose this was bound to happen. Canon's real reason for crippling appears to be keeping the Cinema EOS line well protected, and they just released the C70 last year. So I'm not sure where this product was ever going to fit. Perhaps what would have been better is for Canon to release a proper R5 Mark II that fixed all of these issues. And perhaps that R5 Mark II may end up being the true spiritual successor to one of the last "perfect" products that Canon made 12 years ago - the 5D Mark II.

Some other issues that folks have brought up about this camera:
- It just looks weird from a design standpoint
- The totally separate video/photo UI is weird and feels like Canon just frankensteined the whole thing together. My 10-year-old 5D Mark III switches from video to photo mode at anytime without time delay. Why does this product have to be so different?
- Lack of full-sized HDMI

So I guess now, I wait for the R1? And likely a $10-13K price tag all in with lenses/cards/battery/etc? Sigh!

 

[unfocused]

...Am I the only one noticing this? I feel like I’m take crazy pills!

You are definitely not the only one who thinks you take crazy pills.

 

[unfocused]

...without IBIS, this camera is junk.

Just like the 1DxIII and every DSLR Canon has ever made. All junk because they don't have In-Body Stabilization. I mean, how can anyone shoot a decent picture without IBIS?

 

[entoman]

No IBIS. That's a good thing according to most of what the video guys post, but the one thing that will make a stills guy really have to think hard deciding between R5 and R5C.

And the price was on the low end of the predictions! For like the first time ever! Seems like a real beast of a body at that price.

Brian

Why would a stills guy even remotely consider the R5C?

The R5 is significantly cheaper, lighter, less bulky, and has IBIS...

I do agree about the price of the R5C, which is a lot lower than anyone expected - I think we have Nikon to thank for that.

At this point I think the most relevant question is whether people would be better off spending a bit more and getting the Nikon Z9, which from initial impressions seems to be able to do everything that the R5C can do - but retains IBIS, and doesn't need a fan to keep it cool when shooting hi-end video... I'm very happy with my R5 for stills, and I'm tied into Canon glass, but if it was economically viable, I'd have little or no hesitation in switching to a Z9.

 

[bbasiaga]

If your use case is 80% stills then an R5 CINEMA was never going to be the right camera for you.

yeah. I think its pretty clear this is the camera for the 80/20 video/stills shooter, and the R5 is the opposite.

Pretty wild that 18 months ago 8k in a camera or hybrid body was unheard of, and now there is an 8K machine at this price point. How fast technology marches sometimes is amazing.

Brian

 

[Quackator]

I would gladly pay 500$-700$ more for ibis or ND, full hdmi and a solution where you don't turn off camera when switching from mode to mode.

And I have been on record to state gladly paying more for a camera without IBIS.
The R5C will be the next camera in my shopping cart.

 

[tomislavmoze]

Wow - thats all I can say at this point.
I was so looking forward to this camera, and everything in the video was going great - until, of course, he started saying "the still imaging features and operation of the EOS R5C are nearly identical".. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop after that. I had long predicted that IBIS would likely not make it in this camera, due to Canon's past practices of subtracting features in order to differentiate their product line. And of course, its missing. And Ill say it now - without IBIS, this camera is junk.

For me, this is really depressing. I'm still using my 5D Mark III from 10 years ago - not because I can't afford to buy another camera - but because I haven't found a camera that Canon has yet made that checks off all the boxes I need. All I've been waiting for since the beginning is a proper hybrid - a photo-video shooting product. Without IBIS, this product simply can't compete in the photography realm.

And when Canon inconsistently applies IBIS to their products, it also creates overall inconsistency with product expectations. For instance, Sony has IBIS in all of their pro models, including their video-oriented a7S III (!). This means that when you stick on a lens between an a7S, an a7R, an a7, an a9 or an a1, you know how the lens and body will give you a stabilized image, since all of these models have in-body stabilization. With Canon, there's no such consistency - you still have the EOS R and RP models without in-body stabilization, the R5/R6/R3 with stabilization, and now the R5C without - its really inconsistent, and it makes this complicated for the end user. For instance, should I buy the 24-70 f2.8 lens with in-lens stabilization, or the 28-70 f2 without? On a R3/R5/R6, this doesn't matter since the in-body stabilization is great and both lenses will perform great. But now on a R5C, suddenly that in-lens stabilization is a requirement.

As is always the case when Canon releases a new product and subtracts desired features, I see folks on here trying to defend the decisions - either by stating videographers don't need IBIS or that Canon came through on the price. I would gladly had paid more money for a more complete product. And not everyone uses gimbals for stabilization! And lastly, these cameras are expensive!

For context - I'm in Canada, so a R5C plus battery grip, extra battery, 512 GB CExpress card, RF-EF adapter plus 24-70 f2.8 lens would cost nearly $10K Canadian. If I'm paying that much for a camera, it had better be perfect. No missing features. Right now, for me, this camera is a non-starter, and I am left to ponder whether Canon will ever release a product free from feature subtraction/crippling/etc.

Also please note that this continued issue of feature subtraction/crippling is uniquely a Canon issue. I don't know any other company that does this. Certainly, Sony and Nikon do not. They both put their best foot forward in releasing the best products that people want to buy without the need to diminish features. Canon on the other hand keeps on doing the same thing again and again - releasing products with key features subtracted, forcing you to buy MORE products.

And its sad because I feel that Canon doesn't understand customer needs. More photographers shoot video (in addition to photos) than ever before. Many people brought this up when the original overheating issues concerning the R5 came up. All Canon needed to do was respect the wishes of hybrid shooters and actually create a camera that meets both target needs, which Sony, and now Nikon with the Z9, have done.

This ongoing issue with Canon has just gotten too ridiculous for me. But in hindsight, I suppose this was bound to happen. Canon's real reason for crippling appears to be keeping the Cinema EOS line well protected, and they just released the C70 last year. So I'm not sure where this product was ever going to fit. Perhaps what would have been better is for Canon to release a proper R5 Mark II that fixed all of these issues. And perhaps that R5 Mark II may end up being the true spiritual successor to one of the last "perfect" products that Canon made 12 years ago - the 5D Mark II.

Some other issues that folks have brought up about this camera:
- It just looks weird from a design standpoint
- The totally separate video/photo UI is weird and feels like Canon just frankensteined the whole thing together. My 10-year-old 5D Mark III switches from video to photo mode at anytime without time delay. Why does this product have to be so different?
- Lack of full-sized HDMI

So I guess now, I wait for the R1? And likely a $10-13K price tag all in with lenses/cards/battery/etc? Sigh!

Well for me it was either this or the R3. Since it misses some to me really important features, and now knowing all this I think the R3 is a better hybrid solution so I guess I'll go with it, sell my r6 and keep R5 for the shoots where I need the extra mpx. I just don't understand from what you have written here what is wrong with the R3?
Btw although I'm disappointed regarding a lot of things I think the R5c is a really interesting cinema camera, but not so interesting hybrid camera to a lot of people.

 

[Respinder]

Just like the 1DxIII and every DSLR Canon has ever made. All junk because they don't have In-Body Stabilization. I mean, how can anyone shoot a decent picture without IBIS?

Well no offense but based upon what you're saying, I should just stick with my 5D Mark III because it works fine.
The point is camera technology continues to advance, pricing keeps going up, and consumers expect more features.
I expect IBIS in every R-series Canon camera, and why not? It's about creating consistency across the product line, so you know how your lens will work with each R-series body. Makes it easy to decide if I buy a lens with in-lens IS or not.
And furthermore, please lets stop defending the cripple hammer. I always see it, and when you defend the practice, Canon just keeps doing it.

 

[entoman]

Just like the 1DxIII and every DSLR Canon has ever made. All junk because they don't have In-Body Stabilization. I mean, how can anyone shoot a decent picture without IBIS?

I still use a 5DMkiv alongside my R5, so I'm used to experiencing the difference that IBIS can make. Sure, it's absolutely possible to take razor sharp photos without IBIS, but an improvement of roughly 2 stops (in my experience) is nothing to be sniffed at. I find it results in greatly improved keeper rates, and the ability to shoot at lower ISO, so it's disappointing that Canon excluded IBIS from the R5C - especially as the competing models from Nikon and Sony do have IBIS (at a price premium admittedly).

 

[Respinder]

Well for me it was either this or the R3. Since it misses some to me really important features, and now knowing all this I think the R3 is a better hybrid solution so I guess I'll go with it, sell my r6 and keep R5 for the shoots where I need the extra mpx. I just don't understand from what you have written here what is wrong with the R3?
Btw although I'm disappointed regarding a lot of things I think the R5c is a really interesting cinema camera, but not so interesting hybrid camera to a lot of people.

Yep same with me. The R3 just made a lot less sense once Nikon announced the Z9. If Canon knocked the price of the R3 down by $1000, then I think it becomes much more palatable. At this point, I'm thinking the R5 Mark II (another 1-2 year wait at least) or the R1..

 

[tomislavmoze]

And I have been on record to state gladly paying more for a camera without IBIS.
The R5C will be the next camera in my shopping cart.

Well I thinking more like the ibis to be like nikon's with a locking ability. And with an ability to decide to have it turned of and only lens IS on would be nice.

 

[bbasiaga]

Why would a stills guy even remotely consider the R5C?

The R5 is significantly cheaper, lighter, less bulky, and has IBIS...

I do agree about the price of the R5C, which is a lot lower than anyone expected - I think we have Nikon to thank for that.

At this point I think the most relevant question is whether people would be better off spending a bit more and getting the Nikon Z9, which from initial impressions seems to be able to do everything that the R5C can do - but retains IBIS, and doesn't need a fan to keep it cool when shooting hi-end video... I'm very happy with my R5 for stills, and I'm tied into Canon glass, but if it was economically viable, I'd have little or no hesitation in switching to a Z9.

Remember, this is the internet. WHere the R5 was a total failure because it couldn't do unlimited 8k. The discourse over the past years has had people who don't use these features often 'waiting' for the R5C, hoping it would 'fix' the R5.

But my comment was originally more about the feature set being a big differentiator between the two. They are more different than might have been expected given they share a model number. Canon did a good job of making it clear which of these you really need. Case in point, R5C is clearly not a a camera for me.


You correctly identify that the switch to a Z9 is not cheap. Especially if this is your b-cam and you're in the Canon system with your others. And we haven't seen 8K60 yet in the Z9, and what limitations it may have. WHether $1k more for 2 ish stops of additional stabilization is worth it to some is up to them (typically 2 additional stops is what is estimated when you combine IBIS with lens IS). As a foot note, the Z9 pricing being too low for what it is does make for an interesting twist in that decision - i'm sure that's why Nikon decided to go low on it, to attract as many users back to the system as possible. Ultimately, R5C is going to be great for 8K on a budget, and have all of the stills functionality of its cousin, minus a stop or two of stabilization (which you didn't even have on your 5D4 or 1DXIII, but still did fine without).

Brian

 

[tomislavmoze]

Just like the 1DxIII and every DSLR Canon has ever made. All junk because they don't have In-Body Stabilization. I mean, how can anyone shoot a decent picture without IBIS?

try shooting 20mpx camera and then a 45 mpx camera especially one that is lighter and a smaller form factor without IS and then come back, there is a huge difference in what is needed to get a sharper image. Also the IBIS combine with IS can offer so many benefits to a shooter, from not using a tripod when needed and also helps in a low light situations, or if you are moving and shooting to reduce breathing shakes.

 

[AJ]

As I always guessed, IBIS is the weak link when it gets to effectively cool such a high performing sensor. If you are a bit into semiconductor tech you weren't surprised by the R5's so-called "heating problems" (since it is a stills camera in the first line, Canon did a good job). The massive data rate of 8k video transforms any sensor into a little oven, so it needs a really strong connection with heat sinks to achieve an appropriate cooling rate.

Makes sense. The IBIS assembly got in the way of the cooling system, rather than Canon cheaping out.

 

[CanonGrunt]

What happened to the lens announcements and modules for the c300 MK III and c500 MK II?

 

[unfocused]

try shooting 20mpx camera and then a 45 mpx camera especially one that is lighter and a smaller form factor without IS and then come back, there is a huge difference in what is needed to get a sharper image. Also the IBIS combine with IS can offer so many benefits to a shooter, from not using a tripod when needed and also helps in a low light situations, or if you are moving and shooting to reduce breathing shakes.

Then use an R5. What about CINEMA do people not understand? As others have explained, Canon needed to remove IBIS in order to offer efficient cooling for cinema use. If you need IBIS because you can't get a sharp picture with a stabilized lens, then buy an R5.

 

[[email protected]]

My one comment on the comments: a bunch of people are throwing up their hands and waiting for the R1. I do not think that the R1 is going to be a solution to many of their complaints. The assumption - because the R3 has low resolution - that the R1 will have higher resolution so as to be able to shoot 8K is not at all a safe bet.

Canon over time has considered high resolution and video cameras to be non-flagship, somewhat niche-y products. An R1 is likely to continue the decade-long tradition of disappointing on resolution. It is likely to have awesome 6K video features, and a more intelligent heat sinking layout than that of the R5, but unlikely to have active cooling. If the R1 goes to 45 megapixels, I would be very pleasantly surprised.

All this is to say that if you want 8K, you should probably use the R5, and if you need 8K 60p or longer-form clips in 8K 30p, or perhaps just a bunch of those video features akin to the cine cameras, you probably want the R5c.

Last couple days I've been collecting specs to create comparison charts among the major players in hybrid cameras for addition to an R3 review section, and it shows some advantages for the R5C over and above the Sony A1, Nikon Z9 and Canon R3 (and some disadvantages too).

 

[TiMLud]

No IBIS. That's a good thing according to most of what the video guys post, but the one thing that will make a stills guy really have to think hard deciding between R5 and R5C.

And the price was on the low end of the predictions! For like the first time ever! Seems like a real beast of a body at that price.

Brian

Still guys can use a tripod or just hold the camera still. (no IBIS)