Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R5 C

[trianbampol]

Not a fair comparison...the Reds and Alexa's are one trick pony cinema cameras.

This R5C is supposed to be a hybrid....you should have IBIS on it for the still side of the camera....just lock it off for video if you don't want it on video.
That would have made it a hybrid best of both worlds.

That's all people are saying.

In this day in age, for stills at this price...IBIS is an expected given.

But the R5c is a hybrid, it fills in the gap of what the R5 is missing. And for this price I'll take unlimited 8k/60p internal over IBIS any day.

I've been running two R5 bodies for a year and a half and am planning on replacing my second body with an R5c because this new version solves a lot of issues in my workflow.

- I don't have to rotate bodies when one overheats while shooting photo + video in 4kHQ
- No longer have to worry about IBIS wobbles with a wide angle lens (In lens IS + digital IS with a light crop is way better than having to deal with wobbly corners)
- Can now run an ultralight handheld rig without an Atomos bc there are no more overheating issues.

When I book a gig that prioritizes photo, I'll bring my R5. When a client needs video on set I'll use the R5c.

 

[goldenhusky]

The R1 will likely be substantially more expensive, and while I suspect it will have QPAF or some other tech equivalent to cross-type AF points and be blazing fast, I don't think the specs will be hugely different from the Z9. So, waiting for the R1 does not really make sense.

For many years, brand choice was really about lens selection. In some ways, that hasn't changed. I really like my compact 70-200/2.8 and my 28-70/2, and those aren't available for Nikon or Sony, so the R3 makes a lot of sense, to me.

Just a general comment, I don't have a horse in the video race as I don't use my ILCs for that, except a few seconds of footage I once shot on my 1D X by accident while customizing the buttons.

You would be happy with anything Canon produces at any price point isn't it? Seriously though is there anything ever Canon produced has disappointed you?

 

[IWLP]

So what are people actually seeking here?

You want unlimited 8K, IBIS, and immediate switching from photo to video mode? Canon gave you two out of three. Yes, there's more to it with the in-depth video menu system and features in the R5C (the likely reason for the less-than-immediate switching), but for the main objections in the nine post pages I read (!) these three keep coming up.

So if you have to choose two of three: Unlimited 8K, immediate photo/video switching and IBIS, who must have all three, and who is willing to pay the full price (both cash outlay and ergonomics/size) to do this? Or what's the other game in town by which you are measuring this Canon "total fail"?

For shooters who need immediate photo/video mode switching, are your clients or is your workflow demanding 8K capture? For people who need IBIS for run-and gun, and unlimited 8K shooting, by the time you have a production that necessitates the 8K, are you really running hand-held with a non-IS lens? And if you're shooting so many stills compared to video, what about the R5 is lacking?

I think posters here have created a straw man user who may exist and who needs "all of the above," but more likely, they're mad about what the R5C is not.

I went through this a while back with the original R came out - I was perplexed as to all it's perceived "crippled" features and it bothered me.

But then I realized you should buy a camera for what it is "is" rather than what it "is not." And if we're honest with our needs, I cannot imagine many cases where an R5 (which I actually own and use in a "hybrid" way) or an R5C would not be a good solution that produces very usable results.

 

[bgoyette]

Let's see if Canon agrees with your assessment, currently on the front page of their website:

View attachment 202150

Looks to me like they're saying that the R5C is a hybrid camera "ready for anything". A hybrid camera with no IBIS isn't exactly ready for stills photography, especially at this price point.

Yeah. You're right. Photography without IBIS? Who would even try? Recipe for Disaster. Fools Errand. Lost Cause. Imagine me, shooting for clients for over 30 years. If they only knew about the lack of IBIS on every camera I've owned (except the current one, a GFX100) they certainly would have never hired me...I might have to start sending out refunds.

 

[DiXi]

Canon removed IBIS to cripple the R5c to protect their cine cameras which have...no IBIS?

Canon is clearly ill-fated!

Also: if the R5c had IBIS it still wouldn't be weather sealed with a fan. Price/sealing would still sell the R5.

How good is the weather sealing actually?
Any info?

 

[monton1999]

The reason why the pc struggles is likely because the CPU doenst directly support decoding of 10 bit 422 in h.265. another codec should work better. Experienced it myself. I pretty much hate the performance in premiere on my pc with R5 files. My macbook is much better, though I am not yet realy used to the OS, which slows me down a lot, after 25 years on a pc =D

11th generation Intel CPUs (Tiger Lake) have much better support for h.265/HEVC

They actually support hardware decoding up to 8K 12bit 444 and encoding up to 8k 10bit 444

Intel HW media features

Supported Encoding and Decoding Output Formats and Max Resolution

 

[Sampetra]

Yeah. You're right. Photography without IBIS? Who would even try? Recipe for Disaster. Fools Errand. Lost Cause. Imagine me, shooting for clients for over 30 years. If they only knew about the lack of IBIS on every camera I've owned (except the current one, a GFX100) they certainly would have never hired me...I might have to start sending out refunds.

Your condescension is noted. Now that you've shown how snarky you can be maybe you should address the issue that I presented, which is that Canon is marketing the R5C as a hybrid camera "ready for anything" while removing a major photography feature present in the R5.

The R5C is a step backwards in the photography department, it doesn't even tread water compared to its predecessor. At $4,500 that's an issue.

 

[sergeyross]

Yet Nikon and Sony have brought to market professional-level cameras capable of non time-limited 8K, and that have retained IBIS. If they can do so, why can't Canon?

The only conclusion I can reach is deliberate market-segmentation. They have decided to send out a clear message (with which I have no argument) that stills shooters and casual videographers should still go for the R5, and that the R5C is not in any way aimed at them.

I'm certain Canon could have brought IBIS to R5C, they chose not to do so. Here's how I see this whole R5 pickle happening.

Canon developed what they thought was a revolutionary hybrid camera that could shoot 8K video - R5. It was never meant to have unlimited recordings. It was meant to give a sub-segment of photographers who also do video a taste of Canon video prowess and lure them into Cinema line.
What Canon did not anticipate was a significant backlash over overheating of the R5. Obviously blown out of proportion like anything on the web. Sony A7SIII comparison tests were humiliating for Canon even though you are comparing apples and oranges. Video camera 12mp vs primary stills 45mp.

Canon may not known about A7SIII specs or perhaps they didn't care before the release. What they certainly didn't anticipate were the side by side comparisons with Sony. Perhaps, at this moment, someone at Canon got enough justification for a new product (R5C) based on a segment of people who, as it turns out, wanted unlimited video recording in a mirrorless format. And so R5C project was greenlit internally.

Canon set an aggressive, for hardware at least, timeline to launch a modified R5 with a fan this time.
But they simple didn't want to invest the engineering cost to have active cooling work with IBIS. It all comes down to this. Canon spent a ton of R&D and development money to make R5 chassis. They want to extend those cost on another product, not engineer one from scratch.

IBIS working with active cooling required, and this is my guess, a complete or major redesign. That's huge cost, that's pushed launch date, etc, etc.
So, What Canon execs do? They, correctly, say we can't add IBIS into R5C. And they are correct. What of course they wouldn't say, is that would actually decided not to redesign the whole body to make it happen. It's a simple business decision. Rational, logical.

Why did Canon leave micro-HDMI? Again, back to chassis engineering. They wanted to lower the cost of R5C development as much as possible.
Will they introduce a better model in the future? Nobody knows.

Nikon Z9, Sony A1 8K + IBIS - those guys had it planned and designed from day 1. Canon R5 was designed for short bursts of video.
That's my take on the situation.

 

[entoman]

Except that, as you've been told, time and time again, the audience Canon wishes to target with this body largely doesn't need IBIS, and may not want it at all, as it is one more mechanical element that can fail in demanding usage/environmental conditions. I'm not saying you shouldn't want IBIS or be disappointed that this body doesn't include it, but the hyperbole being expressed about it in this thread is absolutely ridiculous, and I firmly believe that if it was a matter of profit and customer preference, they would put it in the body and jack up MSRP accordingly.

The problem is that there seems to be no communication between the marketing department and the design and manufacturing teams. The marketing team are calling this a "hybrid" camera that is "ready for anything". But it has been designed as a professional video camera (which doesn't need IBIS), that pays little more than lip service to stills shooters (who gain hugely from IBIS).

The moral of the story is that if you are serious about video, get the R5C, but if you are serious about stills, get the R5.

.. or if you are equally serious about stills and video, get a Z9.

 

[Jethro]

It's amazing how much quicker you can flick through 10 pages of comments when you ignore any which include 'cripple hammer' ...

 

[entoman]

Yep, Gordon has produced a very thorough review of a pre-production sample of the R5C, which should be compulsory viewing for anyone thinking about buying this tool.

 

[tataylino]

The crippled specs maybe the result of the low price?
I have worked in a design team before though it was not a camera design. The marketing team is the one giving us the specs and the target cost. After we evaluated the design, we often get back to marketing team and give them choice like "increase the target cost or remove these features". And sometimes we ask to extend the deadline or remove this feature.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You would be happy with anything Canon produces at any price point isn't it? Seriously though is there anything ever Canon produced has disappointed you?

What gives you that idea? I like the gear I’ve bought, because I’ve chosen carefully. For example, I never bought a 50/1.4 or 50/1.8 – I’m pretty sure I’d be disappointed with them. That’s why I only own one non-L Canon FF lens (the MP-E 65mm).

If I’m not reasonably certain I’d be happy with something, I don’t buy it. If I’m not sure one way or the other, I’ll buy it used and re-sell it if I’m not happy. I did that with the 300/4L (bought a new 100-400L), the 200/2.8L (bought a new 70-200/2.8L IS II), etc. The MP-E 65 was one of those, actually.

People who buy something then complain probably didn’t do sufficient research before the purchase. But I think most people complaining on this forum never had any intention (and/or means) of actually buying whatever product they’re complaining about.

Like people on car enthusiast forums complaining about a sports coupe with a supercharged V8 instead of a V12 when in reality they need to drive 4 kids to school and/or barely have the down payment for a Corolla in their savings.

It’s why there are a bunch of ‘if only’ comments. I’d have bought the R5C if only it had IBIS. I’d have bought the R3 if only it had more than 24 MP. In most cases, no…you wouldn’t have.

 

[byjohnburns]

Your condescension is noted. Now that you've shown how snarky you can be maybe you should address the issue that I presented, which is that Canon is marketing the R5C as a hybrid camera "ready for anything" while removing a major photography feature present in the R5.

The R5C is a step backwards in the photography department, it doesn't even tread water compared to its predecessor. At $4,500 that's an issue.

I guess I'm failing to see why IBIS is really that important to begin with. Everybody has their way of shooting, so not trying to discredit anyone -- I just don't really understand the outrage over it lol. For me, it's handy if I'm shooting fast action and want motion blur, and it's handy if I'm too lazy to use a tripod for an occasional long exposure. Beyond that, how often are people shooting at ridiculously slow shutter speeds? I've never wanted IBIS and in a year of owning the R5 and doing 4-5 shoots per week, I've only benefited from it twice: once when shooting Nascar and once when shooting NHRA. And I could have lived without it then.

The photo side is 100% identical to the R5 minus the IBIS. Claiming that the R5C isn't a true hybrid due to its absence of a single feature that is useless above 1/200th doesn't check out. By nature, hybrid traditionally = compromise. Think about bikes - a hybrid with shocks and thicker tires will fair better off-road than a road bike, but it won't excel at one or the other the way a road or mountain bike would. A really good one might get you 75% of the way there on both fronts (and I mean a really good one). It's the way it works: I have yet to see any hybrid product from ANY industry overcome this rule.

 

[scyrene]

BTW - I don't think the R5 ever needed a fan at all. The 1DC never needed a fan - all it had was a very well designed heat sink. Ultimately the R5 just needed a better designed heat sink as well.

So there's no good excuse here for why IBIS was removed, other than finding a convenient way to differentiate the products and forcing you to buy separate photo and video products - which seems to have always been the Canon gameplan from day 1.

So does Canon really understand the market anymore?

The 1DC was a much larger body. And it didn't have IBIS either, shock.

As to your question, they're still by far the most successful camera company, so I'm gonna guess they understand the market than you...

 

[scyrene]

So let's put it a bit differently then.
Say you've driven an older car without a CD player/MP3/SiriusXM/Navigation/etc for years
Now you want to upgrade. You obviously want to upgrade to the latest standards of car technology, right? So why would you buy a new car without all that built in infotainment, even though its now in most cars?
Same applies to IBIS. Its in almost every pro-body ILC. So why omit it here?

Let me ALSO put it another way: Canon did such a good job with IBIS on the R5 that it became the killer app. Now, why would you take the killer app away?

Finally and lastly, if this is a true hybrid, then it must meet photo and video needs. Again, understanding how good Canon's IBIS is, and recognizing that EVERY OTHER Canon R camera will surely get IBIS in the future, how is this particular camera a good solution for photographers who also want good video capabilities? Its not. Its not a hybrid camera.

Sounds like you're holding out for a perfect camera that cannot by definition exist. Or else you just like to moan. A very plausible explanation has been offered in this thread as to why the feature you're so upset about is missing.

And as for your apparent belief that a hybrid device must be as good at everything as specialised tools... have you looked at how anything works?

 

[scyrene]

YEs..but IBIS plus Lens IS combined is even better.

And remember, this R5C is supposed to be for both Video AND Stills.

You could lock off the IBIS if you wanted for video but switch it on for stills.....and these days, IBIS is pretty much considered a commodity at this price range for stills.

So you didn't read the thread. Heat dissipation is not the same. Seems reasonable to me. But by all means believe a conspiracy theory.

 

[neuroanatomist]

So does Canon really understand the market anymore?

As to your question, they're still by far the most successful camera company, so I'm gonna guess they understand the market than you...

Yes, it’s amazing how many people on this forum seem to understand the ILC market so much better than the global, multibillion dollar company that dominates that market today and has led it for the past two decades.

 

[Respinder]

Sounds like you're holding out for a perfect camera that cannot by definition exist. Or else you just like to moan. A very plausible explanation has been offered in this thread as to why the feature you're so upset about is missing.

And as for your apparent belief that a hybrid device must be as good at everything as specialised tools... have you looked at how anything works?

You know what? If you want to be a Canon apologist then you do you. But just realize that you'll be seeing the same issues from Canon time and time again.

If you bothered to read any of my other posts, you'll notice that Canon DID in fact make three perfect cameras - cameras without compromises: the original 5D Mark II, the 1DC and the 1DX Mark III. Canon is capable of creating a perfect camera without compromise. Want to see other cameras with little to no compromise? Look at the Nikon Z9 or the Sony A1. In Nikon's case, they removed the mechanical shutter - a feature that most folks don't care about - but they also ensured that rolling shutter would be dramatically reduced.

I'm certain Canon could have brought IBIS to R5C, they chose not to do so. Here's how I see this whole R5 pickle happening.

Canon developed what they thought was a revolutionary hybrid camera that could shoot 8K video - R5. It was never meant to have unlimited recordings. It was meant to give a sub-segment of photographers who also do video a taste of Canon video prowess and lure them into Cinema line.
What Canon did not anticipate was a significant backlash over overheating of the R5. Obviously blown out of proportion like anything on the web. Sony A7SIII comparison tests were humiliating for Canon even though you are comparing apples and oranges. Video camera 12mp vs primary stills 45mp.

Canon may not known about A7SIII specs or perhaps they didn't care before the release. What they certainly didn't anticipate were the side by side comparisons with Sony. Perhaps, at this moment, someone at Canon got enough justification for a new product (R5C) based on a segment of people who, as it turns out, wanted unlimited video recording in a mirrorless format. And so R5C project was greenlit internally.

Canon set an aggressive, for hardware at least, timeline to launch a modified R5 with a fan this time.
But they simple didn't want to invest the engineering cost to have active cooling work with IBIS. It all comes down to this. Canon spent a ton of R&D and development money to make R5 chassis. They want to extend those cost on another product, not engineer one from scratch.

IBIS working with active cooling required, and this is my guess, a complete or major redesign. That's huge cost, that's pushed launch date, etc, etc.
So, What Canon execs do? They, correctly, say we can't add IBIS into R5C. And they are correct. What of course they wouldn't say, is that would actually decided not to redesign the whole body to make it happen. It's a simple business decision. Rational, logical.

Why did Canon leave micro-HDMI? Again, back to chassis engineering. They wanted to lower the cost of R5C development as much as possible.
Will they introduce a better model in the future? Nobody knows.

Nikon Z9, Sony A1 8K + IBIS - those guys had it planned and designed from day 1. Canon R5 was designed for short bursts of video.
That's my take on the situation.

This is absolutely the correct take. Canon clearly wanted to get something out the door as quickly as possible. And clearly from the reaction, you've got quite a few folks who will buy this camera. But given my style of run-and-gun videography + traditional photography, I'll need something with IBIS.

 

[vladk]

Let's see if Canon agrees with your assessment, currently on the front page of their website:

View attachment 202150

Looks to me like they're saying that the R5C is a hybrid camera "ready for anything". A hybrid camera with no IBIS isn't exactly ready for stills photography, especially at this price point.

LOL, you opened my eyes.
I was not aware that first Canon camera that is exactly ready for stills was made only in 2020...