Canon’s profit likely to slide 40% on European slowdown

Aug 1, 2017
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189
International Corp's always blame currency fluctuations or a business downturn somewhere when their financials take a dive. Who wants to put out a press release that says "nobody buys what we are selling anymore"? I just came back from a vacation to a tourist hotspot and I could count the number of ILC's I saw on two or three hands. Unless one of the big manufacturers comes up with a very compelling reason for consumers to start buying dedicated cameras again I'd get used to seeing headlines like this.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,109
193
Davidson, NC
I travel a lot for both work and fun. I have seen a wide range including being shocked that I am the only person with the ILC at epic photo destinations to shocked how everyone has a DSLR at more casual places. Recent trip to Italy (Amalfi, Capri, Naples) I was very surprised as I would say most people taking pictures had a ILC. But I have also seen it the other way, Alaska, Sedona/Grand Canyon, Arizona, etc, most if not all but me had phones. Iceland was even a bit of a surprise, for every dedicated photographer with tripods galore (of which there were many), I would say there were 2-3 people with phones. I even had someone walk up to me at Kirkjufellfoss and ask me why this waterfall is so famous. I tried to explain how it perfectly aligns with Kirkjufell in the background, received a blank stare and then muttered something about "Game of Thrones" at which point they snapped a picture with their phone and walked back to their tour bus.

But, overall, I am seeing the whole gammut. There are a good number of dedicated "hobbyist" photographers (usually identified with annoyed look on their face waiting for people to get out of their shot), a good number of people with better cameras wanting to document their travels (camera strapped around their neck), and then the mob with their phones.
A large percentage of the folks I see shooting with their phones are taking pictures of themselves with just a bit of the scenery in the background showing up around themselves. Phones do great for that, other than without the selfie stick the face is distorted by the close distance.

As for the people shooting more seriously, I'm the outlier with my G7X II, while most of the others are lugging around DSLRs. Folks I know travel with crop Nikons and one zoom with a large ratio, so not as much to deal with as I do when using my DSLR.

Usually I'm not that much concerned about what other people think, but I would never use my iPad to take pictures, out in public anyway. (I did take a friend's picture once as we sat around in his den, and I use the picture with his contact info on my devices. I think that is about it.) Using an iPad for photography just looks so stupid. If that is all someone has, I don't begrudge them. I just wouldn't want to be seen doing it myself. I don't know whether my iPad has a better camera or worse camera than my iPhone. I don't care. I'm going to use the phone, if the two of them are all I have. I know that's silly.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,088
515
It's my fault. The only Canon product I bought this year is the lens hood for the Canon EF-M 32mm F1.4. SORRY!
The only Canon product I bought this year was actually an MFU. In Europe. So it's not my fault that the sales of Canon's office equipment in Europe are slipping.

I also wanted to buy a new Powershot, but Canon is still too slow to deliver.
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
422
232
Frankfurt, Germany
Might be small, but I believe a percentage is also attributable to photographers hesitating to commit to mirrorless while being reluctant to spend more on dSLR. Applies to all the major brands. A transitional phase, surely.
Well, Sony users shouldn't be reluctant because of Sony's DSLR offerings... I guess you can't find many unused A-900 copies on any shelves anymore ;)
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
422
232
Frankfurt, Germany
The tragicomic side of Europe's economic growth slowdown is that it is caused by guys with bad hair style: Trump and Boris (note his Russian first name) Johnson. Let Kim Young-Un join this club with a little nuclear thrill, and not only the camera industry's profits will decline a bit more...:poop:
 

jayphotoworks

EOS 80D
Aug 11, 2016
182
48
A large percentage of the folks I see shooting with their phones are taking pictures of themselves with just a bit of the scenery in the background showing up around themselves. Phones do great for that, other than without the selfie stick the face is distorted by the close distance.

As for the people shooting more seriously, I'm the outlier with my G7X II, while most of the others are lugging around DSLRs. Folks I know travel with crop Nikons and one zoom with a large ratio, so not as much to deal with as I do when using my DSLR.

Usually I'm not that much concerned about what other people think, but I would never use my iPad to take pictures, out in public anyway. (I did take a friend's picture once as we sat around in his den, and I use the picture with his contact info on my devices. I think that is about it.) Using an iPad for photography just looks so stupid. If that is all someone has, I don't begrudge them. I just wouldn't want to be seen doing it myself. I don't know whether my iPad has a better camera or worse camera than my iPhone. I don't care. I'm going to use the phone, if the two of them are all I have. I know that's silly.
I personally don't really bring my ILC camera gear with me on trips anymore. Obviously there are certain exceptions if I'm travelling to somewhere very very remote.. but for the most part I've found my smartphone can do an acceptable job. This has been even more the case now that I've upgraded to a P30 Pro. For myself, a substantial difference would involve one of my Sony FF bodies, a few primes or a constant aperture zoom and that would mean carrying around a dedicated camera bag and a 3lb setup around my neck/shoulder pretty much for the duration of my trip. Since I can now cover 16mm to 125mm on my phone and shoot 4k in a IP68 rated body with all-day battery life, its makes me less conflicted about actually bringing heavier camera gear. The obvious caveat will be the trade-off in IQ and low light performance, but what I gain is the ability to enjoy any particular moment more without the encumbrances of an ILC.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,109
193
Davidson, NC
I put a $29.95 battery in my old iPhone 6S back in December, so it should hold me for several more years. Instead of upgrading the phone to get better cameras and tricking them out with accessories, I'd rather put the money into actual cameras and/or lenses for my real cameras. No matter how much faster a processor the phone has, I find that I don't talk any faster on the phone.

Still, the old 6S can take decent pictures within its limitations. I prefer having the control I get with the G7X II, and it still fits in a pants or jacket pocket. A lot of times instead of networking the phone and camera together to get GPS tags in the camera shots' metadata, I'll just shoot an occasional picture with the phone if there is some doubt in my mind quite where I am.

I decided last year that I'd make 13" x 19" prints of some of my nicer shots from the 2017 Hawaii trip, and frame them to hang in my front room, which has sort of a tropical beach décor anyway. I looked at pictures I had posted on my web pages about the trip and picked four I liked. I went into Bridge to find the edited RAW files to prepare them for making prints. I couldn't find one of the pictures, though. It turned out that one of them was a beach shot I had made with the iPhone. The finished print looks great on the wall.
 
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YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,356
377
Southeastern USA
The tragicomic side of Europe's economic growth slowdown is that it is caused by guys with bad hair style: Trump and Boris (note his Russian first name) Johnson. Let Kim Young-Un join this club with a little nuclear thrill, and not only the camera industry's profits will decline a bit more...:poop:
Please keep this site, this one site, free of politics. As much as we fuss over gear, it is so nice to have a sanctuary which excludes the same stuff we read, see, and hear everywhere else.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,023
367
I tried to explain how it perfectly aligns with Kirkjufell in the background, received a blank stare and then muttered something about "Game of Thrones" at which point they snapped a picture with their phone and walked back to their tour bus.
It’s like that in Dubrovnik now too.
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
422
232
Frankfurt, Germany
Please keep this site, this one site, free of politics. As much as we fuss over gear, it is so nice to have a sanctuary which excludes the same stuff we read, see, and hear everywhere else.
I apologize, sorry! Like many Europeans, currently waves of black humor overcome me sometimes. But seriously, what I said about the state of international trade is what already happens. The rising problems will most probably hit the camera industry further, since consumers will hold back on products they can do without, if necessary. This can cause a slow-down of new camera products hitting the market during the next years. And that's what we all are interested in, I guess.
 
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justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
422
232
Frankfurt, Germany
It’s like that in Dubrovnik now too.
Yes, but in Iceland the very sensitive arctic flora really suffers where the mass tourism hits the ground. I traveled several times to Iceland in the past 20 years, but nowadays you can't visit some famous places at least in summer anymore because they are too crowded. Fortunately, there are still some breathtaking places where you can go, in particular the remote ones...
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
460
429
The tragicomic side of Europe's economic growth slowdown is that it is caused by guys with bad hair style: Trump and Boris (note his Russian first name) Johnson. Let Kim Young-Un join this club with a little nuclear thrill, and not only the camera industry's profits will decline a bit more...:poop:
:LOL: Europe needs another Delilah!
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,356
377
Southeastern USA
I apologize, sorry! Like many Europeans, currently waves of black humor overcome me sometimes. But seriously, what I said about the state of international trade is what already happens. The rising problems will most probably hit the camera industry further, since consumers will hold back on products they can do without, if necessary. This can cause a slow-down of new camera products hitting the market during the next years. And that's what we all are interested in, I guess.
Yes, everything can be seen through the lens of personal political beliefs. And some of us are so immersed in politics we respond reflexively to all topics by spewing more politics. But surely we can set aside some spaces, such as this one.

Many on CR tend to say some amazingly silly things about gear, myself included! Claiming we can't get the gear we need at the price we want to pay because politician X in Country Y imposed policy Z seems to be as insightful and compelling as a whole series of photos taken with the lens cap on. Oh wait, we've had those too, right? Talking about dynamic range? :p
 
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Rudeofus

EOS 80D
Jun 1, 2013
148
5
European economic forecasts always look like that. It also was during and shortly after the financial crisis of 2007/2008:
2007: economy strong as ever, massive growth!
2008: oh no, a brief slow down, but forecast is excellent, massive growth in 2009
2009: oh no, another slowdown. but future will be bright, predicting growth by 2010 and massive growth in 2011
2010: well, stagnation is was, but growth will return in 2011 and will be huge in 2012
2011: stagnation! but growth will come in 2012, and will accelerate by 2013
....

The point of economic forecasts is not prediction, but shaping of future. Overly optimistic forecasts are seen as a cheap means of boosting the economy. Investments based on these "forecasts" are great, as long as it's other people's money spent on these investments :D
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,016
543
Saw some headlines again saying Canon’s profits and income are both down 55% and “Can they turn it around” etc... it seems like the collective photo”media” is out to get Canon. It annoys me more than it should.

I guess this is in danger of being the same thing when a bank warns there might be a strike and that ATM’s might run out of cash, everybody and their mother storms out of the house to take out as much cash as possible, and as a result the ATM’s actually do run out of money. If everybody just used them like every day, they wouldn’t.

So since everybody slams Canon it will affect their sales just because of people believing crap like this...
 
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Here's a link to Canon's financial results for the second quarter. The Investor slide show has good segment detail.

Sales are off 18% in the Imaging Products group and nearly 25% with cameras. The decline is attributed to a slowdown in DSLR sales to the lower end part of the market, and declines in virtually every region. There was a greater decline in Asia ex-Japan (mainly China). Operating profit in the Imaging Group has declined 70% from the prior year and the forecast is just a 33% decline for the rest of the year - which seems optimistic. Inventory levels are up sharply due to slow DSLR sales (an increase of 20% in terms of days sales). This suggests additional discounts on DSLR cameras as they try to work down the excess. R&D spending is being held flat and is mainly related to mirrorless.

The good news is Canon is in a leading market position. They are seeing good performance in mirrorless - especially full frame cameras. The bad news is they suffer the most from market declines, and have the biggest entry level DSLR lineup which is where the problems are. Canon is not doing well in other areas such as MFD's, printers and copiers, so a restructuring might be ahead.