Lighting modifier recommendations- softboxes, umbrellas, shape, size?

[sagittariansrock]

• Dear all
  I need some guidance on deciding on light modifiers, and will greatly appreciate your help. Here is the situation:
  
  1. I don't have a dedicated studio, and hope to work partly in my apartment, partly in subjects' houses and locations, and plan to shoot portraits and real estate/architecture. This will be strictly a weekends and holidays thing, and mostly for friends and family. So space and budget is limited, but so is the scope.
  
  2. Regarding lighting gear, I have 3 600EX-RTs, two large Rogue flash benders (one with the diffusion panel) and sets of gels for each flash, a Wafer softbox (30" x 40") and two Manfrotto 1052BAC lights stands that I recently purchased.
  
  3. I plan to buy the TTL version of the Godox 360 when it comes out (300 Ws, bare bulb)
  
  4. I am considering buying a couple of modifiers- one large and one small.
  
  A. For the first, I am considering a PLM- I am thinking soft silver as it is somewhat less specular than the extreme while still producing efficient output. I hope that it will give me controlled but bright light, let me utilize the full power of the Godox and produce round catchlights when I need them.
  
  >Question is, am I choosing the right surface?
  >If so, should I go for the 51" or the 64"- that is, how many people can the first light- how many the second?
  >Will my Godox 360 be sufficient to light a 64" umbrella?
  >Finally, I am thinking of getting the Elinchrom ring mount for the PLM and the Elinchrom mount Speedlite bracket to fit my Godox and Speedlites. I shall also get an Elinchrom mount for my Wafer. Is it silly to go for this mount even though I don't have an Eli light? The alternative is to go Bowens on the wafer and Speedlite bracket and use the PLM by the shaft (PCB doesn't make Bowens ring mounts).
  >>http://www.paulcbuff.com/plm.php
  
  b. For the latter, I am thinking of a small flash-mounted softbox. What shape and size should I look for?
  
  >There are some square Lastolite clones as well as some small and cheap octaboxes (links below)- which will be better?
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Portable-60cm-Softbox-Soft-Box-for-Flash-Light-Speedlite-Photo-Speedlight-/390954391191?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b06b29697
  
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Octagon-Speedlite-Softbox-Umbrella-Soft-Box-Flash-Light-Diffuser-for-Nikon-Canon-/311245372470?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4877ab7c36

Are there other, better alternatives?


Thanks in advance!

 

[Viggo]

Fwiw I use my Godox ad360 with a ProFoto 3' Octa RFi that I am VERY happy with. Excellent light quality and built to last. I use it with the ProFoto Speedlite Speedring.

I use my light mainly out and about with the kids.

 

[sagittariansrock]

Fwiw I use my Godox ad360 with a ProFoto 3' Octa RFi that I am VERY happy with. Excellent light quality and built to last. I use it with the ProFoto Speedlite Speedring.

I use my light mainly out and about with the kids.

The Profoto box looks great, but I am afraid it's a bit out of my budget

 

[IndustrialAndrew]

For use on weekends umbrellas cost a lot less, are easier to set up and take down, produce very similar results and travel easier because you don't have to keep track of so many delicate parts. I find my entry level Elinchrom soft boxes control the light a touch better but, are not easy to set up or pack up on location. For use with speed lights on stands I'd choose umbrellas.

 

[CreationHeart]

For use on weekends umbrellas cost a lot less, are easier to set up and take down, produce very similar results and travel easier because you don't have to keep track of so many delicate parts. I find my entry level Elinchrom soft boxes control the light a touch better but, are not easy to set up or pack up on location. For use with speed lights on stands I'd choose umbrellas.

After I upgraded to using profoto, umbrella was the first light mod I bought. It's easy to carry and fast set up, and turns into an octa with just a sock. Only problem I discovered its durability, way more fragile when compared to a softbox construction...say if your stand/light falls in strong wind, there's quite some chance the softbox will take the fall and without and damage whereas umbrella rod would most likely bend or break. Just my 2c..

 

[brianleighty]

I've found the Westcott Speedlite ProGrip Umbrella Kit to work pretty well and it's a lot easier to carry around than a softbox. Learned about it from Zach & Jody: http://westcottu.com/photography-tips/modifying-speedlites-in-confined-spaces/

 

[paulc]

A soft silver PLM plus the diffusion fabric will probably cover the majority of uses for the majority of people. I'd get one of those and then if you need to fill in the gaps go from there.

 

[Spiros Zaharakis]

I bought the Lastolite grip and collapsible umbrella which is the same like the westcott mentioned here but the cheaply made plastic lock of the umbrella broke on the third use. Also the umbrella has a 10mm shaft that only fits in the supplied grip. It will bot fit in any other umbrella holder.
I also bought a cheap umbrella softbox from China similar to the one on the last link of the OP. I bought one with fiberglass rods as I thought they would be more durable but I was wrong. Two of the rods broke a couple hours after I opened them before they get any use.
However I really like the design and the quality of light from those so my suggestion is the Original Westcott Apollo.
That one also has fiberglass rods but I hope they are more durable than the Chinese copies.

 

[Pookie]

If you're not using this in a studio setting (or in a very small studio)... I'd suggest going a little smaller. Something in the sizes you're talking about is unwieldy. I use Elinchrom Rangers or Quadras and more time than not it's actually the Quadra on-site... at 400ws per head it is more than sufficient for 1-5 people in a group. I own a ton of modifiers; PLM's, Lastolite, and Rotalux predominantly. The two I use the most are a 52in Rotalux Shallow Octa but the most used for on-site work is a 1m Rotalux Octa as it is small enough to carry around and maneuver easily. It also produces great light. I can light a single person easily (head to toe) and also use it for small groups(3-5). It is very strong and won't break easily like a umbrella. After years of replacing so many for broken ribs (a windfall is the usual cause), I have just forgone all umbrellas as they don't hold up well and you end up replacing them more than just about anything else you own. I do like the PLM's but they are not very robust. I do do this professionally though (5-10) sessions per week, sometimes more in the busy season... so YMMV.

I have a small 24x24in Lastolite Ezybox that works beautifully with the Quadra's... 1-2 people and it's perfect. My only advice would be to modify the square catchlight by adding some baffles to produce a octa shape. Otherwise this is also a good choice and very abuse friendly. Much smaller and foldable too.

I looked at you ebay links and I notice for both units there are no internal diffusers... this would make this light harsher compared to say the versions from Lastolite. It would almost be like using a beauty dish and in that case, why not a beauty dish? Also, I've found with a speedlite firing into the umbrella will produce uneven light, not horrible but also not as nice as you could get with a unit that you fire through not at (the reflective surface).

Here are some examples with the 1m Octa...

 

[justsomedude]

However I really like the design and the quality of light from those so my suggestion is the Original Westcott Apollo.
That one also has fiberglass rods but I hope they are more durable than the Chinese copies.

I <3 the Westcott Apollo. It's definitely my favorite flash modifier... ever! Such even, soft and beautiful light. Definitely my go-to for mobile shoots where light-weight is a priority, and the monolights need to stay at home.

Just don't forget the good ol' Offset Arm from Paul Buff to make the most of your softbox. Check the nerd-video I just made for details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmChCSMwSEM

 

[NancyP]

PLM? What is this?

 

[ishdakuteb]

PLM? What is this?

it is parabolic light modification

 

[pwp]

Paint your walls and ceiling white, and bounce your 600 EX-RT's. For harder light put the flash closer to the wall, for softer light move it away from the wall (or ceiling).

I use the 86 inch PLM's with Einsteins, they deliver a beautiful quality of light, but to be honest, when I can bounce lights, that's generally what I do. With practice you can get bounce looking like window light just about every time. This morning I did a corporate shoot and bounced the Einsteins off matt-gray walls and color corrected in post. They look great. With lighting I apply the KISS principal when as often as possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

-pw

 

[Jamesy]

I suggest either Westcott Apollos or Phottix have a similar line of boxes they call Easy-up in various sizes and configs. Both of these I have had for years and they perform well. The Phottix come with a sleeve and grid, depending on the model you get.

Phottix also sell nice umbrella swivels that have a feature on the clamp that does not crush the stems of umbrellas - they are called Phottix Varos.

 

[markphoto]

Thanks for this tip and your video. Very helpful when using the Westcott Apollo!

However I really like the design and the quality of light from those so my suggestion is the Original Westcott Apollo.
That one also has fiberglass rods but I hope they are more durable than the Chinese copies.

I <3 the Westcott Apollo. It's definitely my favorite flash modifier... ever! Such even, soft and beautiful light. Definitely my go-to for mobile shoots where light-weight is a priority, and the monolights need to stay at home.

Just don't forget the good ol' Offset Arm from Paul Buff to make the most of your softbox. Check the nerd-video I just made for details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmChCSMwSEM

 

[Jamesy]

Thanks for this tip and your video. Very helpful when using the Westcott Apollo!

However I really like the design and the quality of light from those so my suggestion is the Original Westcott Apollo.
That one also has fiberglass rods but I hope they are more durable than the Chinese copies.

I <3 the Westcott Apollo. It's definitely my favorite flash modifier... ever! Such even, soft and beautiful light. Definitely my go-to for mobile shoots where light-weight is a priority, and the monolights need to stay at home.

Just don't forget the good ol' Offset Arm from Paul Buff to make the most of your softbox. Check the nerd-video I just made for details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmChCSMwSEM

I have one of these arms - really good quality and very functional.

http://flashhavoc.com/phottix-multi-boom/

 

[sagittariansrock]

Thanks all for your posts. Your advice is most informative and the images on your websites are fantastic and most humbling.

IndustrialAndrew and CreationHeart, thanks for explaining the pros and cons of umbrellas. As a result I did buy some umbrellas (2 convertible see through/reflective, 1 silver double fold) but I got them cheap (@ average $ 15 per at B&H). I will, however, get a 64" soft silver PLM from PCB with umbrella mount as soon as I move in April. Got some great advice from the tech stuff there. I just love the fact that I will get something with pretty directional light allowing me to feather while still wrapping around nicely. Very versatile, and a steal for 50 bucks or so. Thanks, Paulc (Paul C??).

Thanks, Spiros and Jamesy, for the Westcott/Phottix advice. For now, I decided to stick with stuff where I can get access to the flash, and the movement on the Apollo seems too restricted- I will definitely need something like the offset arm if I ever get an umbrella softbox so thanks for the tip, Andrew!

On the umbrella swivels crushing the rods point- both my umbrellas have sealed ends- does that mean that the shaft might be solid or is that wishful thinking?

PW, great advice re bouncing flash, but you do have the knowledge to use a PLM whenever you need to. I need to practice and have that tool in my belt since I am a complete novice with modifiers.

Pookie, thanks for the very informative post. I have seen a bunch of images and the rotalux boxes look great, but maybe down the line. I ended up getting the 24inch softbox but unfortunately one without internal diffuser (there are ones on ebay that do have the baffles, I just got one from Amazon and didn't notice it didn't. I suppose I can DIY a diffuser if I see a hot spot, although I need to figure out which cloth will have the same kind of heat resistance and diffusion. Also, you mentioned baffles to make the catchlight round. How would you do that? (on hindsight, Cheetahstand sells a box with 2 baffles, a grid and the round mask, but it is also 4x the cost. Maybe later I will go for that one when this one breaks).