So the banding is back??

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#41
I guess since I saw that great upgrade in IQ from 1dx to 1dx2 I just assumed they finally got it.

I’m spoiled with the 1dx2, no question. But if this is a POTENTIAL issue with a lot of other cameras and no one seem to be very much bothered with it, I’m sure I can also use it without running into issues.

I never expose for highlights, and never push in post, ever. So I guess my old ETTR habit still comes in handy though, haha:D

What draws me to the R is the size/weight, that RF 50, and that AF system. Some people never use edge AF, but for me, using the edges and negative space etc in weird and different compositions is what I really enjoy, I’m not a centerpoint only shooter to say the least. Thanks again guys!
 
Oct 6, 2015
151
42
#42
if you're getting banding, try a different converter. There's more to life than ACR/Lr, DPP and Capture One.
Which one would you go for ?

When I had a 5DIII I used Dfine to remove it - but it didn't come for free (besides the PITA that it was to add another step in PP). Any object / subject containing details horizontally aligned with the sensor would be affected by the de-banding process.

I don't think that camera manufacturers can ask most photographers to use a specific software when a large majority use Adobe's products, for example. At some point they have to successfully contain banding in camera.
 
Oct 6, 2015
151
42
#43
if this is a POTENTIAL issue with a lot of other cameras
In 2018 most cameras handle it well. I don't think that there's any Fuji camera beyond the original X100 that exhibited noticeable banding patterns. Same goes for currently sold Nikon cameras, most recent Sony, etc.
When I wrote "Canon isn't an exception", I probably should have used the past tense, as reports of significant banding elsewhere are increasingly rare. Besides it's rather the 5DIV / R that may be the exception, rather than Canon as a whole - your 1DXII being an example of a Canon camera with banding decently under control :D.
 

jd7

EOS Rebel SL2
Feb 3, 2013
603
33
#44
As far as I can see the EOS R lacks that priority between focus and release. It seems only available in One Shot, which makes it true that Servo is 5 fps, and continous AF, all the time ON, is when it drops to 3 fps...
If I am reading the EOS R manual correctly, I think it works this way:

Servo AF and high speed continuous shooting mode (H) selected -> AF tracking is active and the camera operates in release priority mode -> you get 5 fps

Servo AF and low speed continuous shooting mode selected -> AF tracking is active and the camera operates in focus priority mode -> you get 3 fps

Servo AF and single shot mode selected -> AF tracks until you take the shot, and I'm guessing the camera is in focus priority mode -> umm, you only get one shot!

One Shot AF and high speed continuous shooting mode (H) selected -> AF locks at initial focus distance -> you get 8 fps

EDIT - maybe delete the line about Servo AF and single shot mode selected, I think. Can you select that combination, or does single shot mode necessarily mean you are in One Shot AF? I don't think you can select that combination.
 
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Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#45
If I am reading the EOS R manual correctly, I think it works this way:

Servo AF and high speed continuous shooting mode (H) selected -> AF tracking is active and the camera operates in release priority mode -> you get 5 fps

Servo AF and low speed continuous shooting mode selected -> AF tracking is active and the camera operates in focus priority mode -> you get 3 fps

Servo AF and single shot mode selected -> AF tracks until you take the shot, and I'm guessing the camera is in focus priority mode -> umm, you only get one shot!

One Shot AF and high speed continuous shooting mode (H) selected -> AF locks at initial focus distance -> you get 8 fps
Is that a quote from the manual or how you interpret it?

I have H and L for bursts in my current body, and nothing is different but the fps, so I don’t necessarily assume that focusing is different between H and L, and I couldn’t verify this in the manual. How can this be so hard to find out? Lol....

Another thing is that the manual states that you absolutely can not take a picture if the focusing point is orange, that being not in focus. It actually says it has to be blue and focused in servo in order to release the shutter, and nothing about conditions or other options... that to me means that there is no focus and/or release priority.
 

jd7

EOS Rebel SL2
Feb 3, 2013
603
33
#46
Is that a quote from the manual or how you interpret it?

I have H and L for bursts in my current body, and nothing is different but the fps, so I don’t necessarily assume that focusing is different between H and L, and I couldn’t verify this in the manual. How can this be so hard to find out? Lol....

Another thing is that the manual states that you absolutely can not take a picture if the focusing point is orange, that being not in focus. It actually says it has to be blue and focused in servo in order to release the shutter, and nothing about conditions or other options... that to me means that there is no focus and/or release priority.
It's my interpretation of the manual.

Have a look at pages 144 and 145 of the manual. In particular:

first dot point on p145 refers to what you get if you are using servo AF with high-speed continuous shooting -> it says 5 fps and seems to refer to the camera using release priority mode

third dot point on p145 refers to what you get if you are using servo AF with low-speed continuous shooting -> it says 3 fps and seems to refer to the camera using focus (ie subject tracking) priority mode

PS - you will see I've edited my earlier email to delete something I think I got wrong
 
Likes: Viggo

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#47
It's my interpretation of the manual.

Have a look at pages 144 and 145 of the manual. In particular:

first dot point on p145 refers to what you get if you are using servo AF with high-speed continuous shooting -> it says 5 fps and seems to refer to the camera using release priority mode

third dot point on p145 refers to what you get if you are using servo AF with low-speed continuous shooting -> it says 3 fps and seems to refer to the camera using focus (ie subject tracking) priority mode

PS - you will see I've edited my earlier email to delete something I think I got wrong
Yeah, I read those pages also, I just saw it differently I guess. Based on the fact I can’t find the option to either have priority in focus or release like in my 1-series.. perhaps L is in fact focus priority and H is release priority? I don’t know..
 

jd7

EOS Rebel SL2
Feb 3, 2013
603
33
#48
Yeah, I read those pages also, I just saw it differently I guess. Based on the fact I can’t find the option to either have priority in focus or release like in my 1-series.. perhaps L is in fact focus priority and H is release priority? I don’t know..
That is my reading of it - there is no specific setting to choose between release priority and focus priority, but high-speed continuous means you get release priority and low-speed continuous means you get focus priority. I could be wrong, but so far I cannot think how else to read pages 144 and 145.
 
Likes: Viggo

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#49
That is my reading of it - there is no specific setting to choose between release priority and focus priority, but high-speed continuous means you get release priority and low-speed continuous means you get focus priority. I could be wrong, but so far I cannot think how else to read pages 144 and 145.
Thanks! Yeah, that could be the case. That truly would suck though, and I must admit, pretty horrible effort, even for a lower end FF body in 2018... 5 I can live with, but 3 is a dealbreaker I think...

And this begs the question; what’s the hitrate in Release Priority with this body? I have to say, I don’t really notice a difference between release and focus priority in the 1dx2...
 
Dec 26, 2015
127
24
England
#50
Don't think we should be comparing the AF between the 1DX2 and the EOSR, due to the fact the DX2 has 3 processors with one dedicated to AF
the single processor has a awful lot of data to process.
Im hopeful when Canon do produce a 1DX2 type mirrorless it will be better than the 1DX2, also size should not be the issue here, but as a native R mount. If Canon are working on one i would expect a prototype out next summer/fall, with a release due out late spring 2020 in time for the olympics
that are due to be held in Tokyo, for that reason alone i think its imperative they do so.
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#52
Don't think we should be comparing the AF between the 1DX2 and the EOSR, due to the fact the DX2 has 3 processors with one dedicated to AF
the single processor has a awful lot of data to process.
Im hopeful when Canon do produce a 1DX2 type mirrorless it will be better than the 1DX2, also size should not be the issue here, but as a native R mount. If Canon are working on one i would expect a prototype out next summer/fall, with a release due out late spring 2020 in time for the olympics
that are due to be held in Tokyo, for that reason alone i think its imperative they do so.
I’m not comparing the two... And as stated couple of times earlier, it’s the 85 that holds the 1dx2 back, that’s why I think it won’t be the biggest difference in AF performance. And a 30mp AE/AF sensor can do some stuff too ...
 

tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,723
118
#53
I’m not comparing the two... And as stated couple of times earlier, it’s the 85 that holds the 1dx2 back, that’s why I think it won’t be the biggest difference in AF performance. And a 30mp AE/AF sensor can do some stuff too ...
But you will either use the 85mm with the converter again or you will use the 50 1.2 and in both cases you do not know if you will see improvement in (follow subject) focusing.
 
Likes: Viggo

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#54
But you will either use the 85mm with the converter again or you will use the 50 1.2 and in both cases you do not know if you will see improvement in (follow subject) focusing.
I will try the 85, but think I will go for selling the 85 and buying the RF 50.

This is not the only reason I’m replacing the 1dx2 with this though.

I just saw the DPR sample gallery shot with the RF 50, and great Scott Marty, it’s the prettiest background I’ve ever seen, it has the pop of a Zeiss and bokeh of the 200 f2.0, absolutely mind blowing at 1.2...!
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#55
So! I contacted TDP as they said I could ask anything about the R, and here’s the grim truth:

  1. High-speed continuous shooting
    • Max. approx. 8.0 fps
      • The conditions are attaining the maximum continuous shooting speed are as follows:
      • Shooting with a fully charged battery in One-Shot AF mode at a 1/1000 sec. or faster shutter speed and maximum aperture (depending on the lens), at room temperature (73°F/23°C), with flicker reduction, Dual Pixel RAW shooting and Digital Lens Optimizer disabled.
      • In One-Shot AF mode with Image Stabilizer off when using these lenses: EF 300mm f/4L IS USM, EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM, EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM, EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM.
      • The continuous shooting speed for high-speed continuous shooting may be lower, depending on conditions such as these: battery level, temperature, flicker reduction, Dual Pixel RAW shooting, shutter speed, aperture, subject conditions, brightness, AF operation, type of lens, use of flash and shooting settings.
      • The maximum continuous shooting speed may be lower when using a cold battery in cold environments or when the battery level is low, at approx. 6.0 shots/sec.
  2. With Servo AF: Max. approx. 5.0 fps (shooting speed priority) [Silent LV shooting: Mode 1]
    • With Servo AF, the maximum continuous shooting speed may become slower depending on subject conditions or the lens used. Also, the maximum continuous shooting speed will become slower when setting the [LV silent shooting] to [Disable].
  3. Low-speed continuous shooting (Tracking priority)
    • Max. approx. 3.0 fps
    • With Dual Pixel RAW: Max. approx. 2.2 fps
      • High-speed continuous shooting not possible.
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#56
That is my reading of it - there is no specific setting to choose between release priority and focus priority, but high-speed continuous means you get release priority and low-speed continuous means you get focus priority. I could be wrong, but so far I cannot think how else to read pages 144 and 145.
You were right, bummer...
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#58
Viggo, please clarify for me, why do you have problems with the 85? It seems like a great lens.
It is a great lens! I REALLY like it, where it doesn’t cut it at all for me is tracking kids soccer and kids on a swing or other playground activities. Everything struggles with kids faces, but I used to own a 70-200 and it’s infintely better at tracking. I’ve tried shooting the 85 at 2.8 also, but just misses way too much.

For everything slow moving or still it’s very, very good in every way.
 

tron

EOS 5DS R
Nov 8, 2011
3,723
118
#59
I will try the 85, but think I will go for selling the 85 and buying the RF 50.

This is not the only reason I’m replacing the 1dx2 with this though.

I just saw the DPR sample gallery shot with the RF 50, and great Scott Marty, it’s the prettiest background I’ve ever seen, it has the pop of a Zeiss and bokeh of the 200 f2.0, absolutely mind blowing at 1.2...!
Maybe but you cannot know how fast the 50 1.2 focuses. In addition you continue to use shorter focal lengths. From 200 to 85 to 50...
 

Viggo

EOS 5DS R
Dec 13, 2010
3,343
61
#60
Maybe but you cannot know how fast the 50 1.2 focuses. In addition you continue to use shorter focal lengths. From 200 to 85 to 50...
Yeah, like I said, there’s more reasons I’m selling the 1dx2. And I change lenses and FL’s quite often. I buy both for FL and for quality. The 85 was as much about IS and f1.4 plus weather sealing as much as it was about 85mm. The 200 was also sold due to my health. I’ve owned lots of UWA also, but I don’t like them so generally I’m not slightly interested in anything shorter than 35mm. And since I’m more about using my light and do portraits with invironment and the 85 isn’t fast enough for soccer, 35 and 50 would be a great combo, and I’ve owned those many times previously also. I change needs and don’t want a lot of lenses I spend money on light.