Sony does it again, A7 II with 5-axis in-body stabilization

[Aglet]

NOW we're getting somewhere! A machine like this will temp even me to try out a Sony body... with lots of lens adapters.

www.sony.jp/ichigan/products/ILCE-7M2/

translated at SAR forum:

www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a77i-officialy-announced-in-japan/

for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes.

This is a product I wish Ricoh-Pentax would have put out... 2 years ago.

Higher-end A-9 model still rumored for early 2015, Hmmm...

 

[Marsu42]

for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes.

Oh my, the IS does sound appealing and is bound to rival Canon's hybrid IS on their newer 100L, 24-70L. But looking at the picture on the japanese site, the 5-axis version seems to need a generic, tc-like attachment?

Canon and their shareholders have to count on the old-school dslr crowd not jumping ship, looking at the speed Sony innovates Canon can nearly stop trying in the enthusiast-midrange market.

 

[AvTvM]

Sony on the rampage: A7 II official

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a77i-officialy-announced-in-japan/

A7II specs (translated via google):
- 24.3 million pixels FF sensor
- 5-axis in body stabilization (same as the Olympus E-M1)
- LCD monitor 3.0-inch 1.23 million dot. 107 degrees up, and tilt 41 degrees below
- EVF 0.5-inch 2.36 million dot
- ISO100-25600 (extended with ISO50). Video ISO200-25600
- The shutter speed is 30 seconds -1/8000 seconds
- 270 sheets at the number of possible shots EVF use. LCD monitor when using 350 sheets
- Continuous shooting 2.5 frames / sec. When speed priority continuous shooting 5 frames / sec.
- Video XAVC S, AVCHD, MP4
- The battery is NP-FW50
- The size of 126.9mm x 95.7mm x 59.7mm
- Weight 599g (including battery and memory)
- Vertical position grip VG-C2EM (sold separately)
- Media Memory Stick PRO Duo / PRO-HG Duo / XC-HG Duo, SD / SDHC / SDXC (UHS-I compatible)

Release date for the camera is December 5.
Price is 190,000 yen (current conversion: 1300 Euro or $1,600). Although I am sure price in Dollar will be lower


... plus even higher specced A9 heavily rumored for early 2015. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a9/
Maybe with eye control AF 8) ... http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-eye-tracking-af-coming-in-2014/
YES! Count me in.

Canon, Nikon ... mirrorslapper window is closing ... fast!

 

[Marsu42]

Re: Sony on the rampage: A7 II official

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-a77i-officialy-announced-in-japan/

You're late, and since it's announced it's no rumor anymore but belongs in the gear talk section ...
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23769.0

 

[Marsu42]

Edit: it seems the adapter is for A-mount lenses.

Right, that makes sense. And the two divisions are for lenses that have internal IS (pitch/yaw) and for IS-less lenses that require the camera body to perform all 5 IS functions.

What i'm curious about is how would this behave when using a image stabilized lens, if it's possible at all to gain any benefit from using say, a 4 stops rated IS lens in this 4.5 stop rated IBIS.

I'm rather critical of these IS "ratings" as IS is all about statistics, you cannot just say "saves 5 stops at all times". As far as I understand it, using an IS lens with the new camera simply adds more axis to compensate.

 

[weixing]

Hi,

for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes.

Oh my, the IS does sound appealing and is bound to rival Canon's hybrid IS on their newer 100L, 24-70L. But looking at the picture on the japanese site, the 5-axis version seems to need a generic, tc-like attachment?

Canon and their shareholders have to count on the old-school dslr crowd not jumping ship, looking at the speed Sony innovates Canon can nearly stop trying in the enthusiast-midrange market.

The TC-like attachment is the adapter for A-mount lens to the A7 II. I think what the picture show is that:
1) The pitch and yaw IS correction is perform in the E-Mount OSS lens when use with A7 II.
2) The 5-axis IS correction is all done in the A7 II when using E-mount non-OSS lens and A-mount lens via adapter.

Hmm... Is there any new innovation?? Only just a refresh of A7 with better specifications...
Anyway, at this rate of releasing upgrade (releasing upgrade model faster than Canon Rebel entry DSLR??), I don't think it's good for Sony and especially their technical support department... may be they don't intend to have one: Your camera not working... we just release a new one, go and get it.

Have a nice day.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

Sony entered the market with little to nothing. They had no market share. Commercial pros (sports, wildlife, illustration, corporate, wedding, portrait) and imaging artists could buy "better" gear from Canon or Nikon. Sony acquired Minolta/Konica and with them came certain technologies that Sony didn't have to develop in-house. Meanwhile, Sony put what appears to be a significant investment in sensor technologies. Finally, when Olympus' management team screwed up and had to sell the imaging group, Sony was able to pick up yet more technology.

At some point Sony would have to surpass the traditional camera manufacturers somehow, someway, right?

Sony's marketing team must be going nuts! with all this great "sizzle" they can sell. This kind of stuff is good attention grabbing material.

Perhaps more importantly, these things are actually useful technologies and can help solve a number of problems for Sony and bring them level with Nikon and Canon. I'm thinking in terms of Sony not having to invest in OSS development for their 70-400mm competitor to Canon's much-loved 100-400L. I'm thinking of all the vintage glass that now has image stabilization (as noted below).

NOW we're getting somewhere! A machine like this will temp even me to try out a Sony body... with lots of lens adapters...

...for those who haven't experienced IBIS in a Pentax or Olympus body, it can work very well. Makes nearly every lens you have stabilized, even classic old primes...

Higher-end A-9 model still rumored for early 2015, Hmmm...

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

It's this kind of innovation that has lead me to put my DSLR gear up for sale.

I recently picked up a Sony APS-C A6000 and confirmed that it can produce a (slightly) better image than my full frame 5D MkII. That's what six years of investment in sensor technologies can do for a company.

I'm blown away to see just how good a Sony A6000 image can be. Now they've announced serious in-body IS technologies and with Sony's 36mpixel already on the market for several years and with the rumored 46mpixel and 54mpixel FF sensors on the horizon... yikes!

As I get older and as the weight, size, mass of DSLR gear becomes problematic I've wanted to downsize my gear but not downsize my image quality. I've proven to myself that this is possible with a mirrorless system. Like so many people, I'm absorbing the transition costs and jumping into a different set of gear.

It's painful as I never thought I'd feel this way as I've been a loyal Canon user for over 40 years. I've invested too many $$$'s to go through this, but what choice do I have if what I can put to better use is small, light, powerful and doesn't have a mirror-box?

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

I hope Sony puts all this interesting stuff into their soon to be released A7000. This at the rumored 50Euro more than current A6000 prices.

I can't imagine what the A9 will be like. Well. I can. I'll Bet a Beer that they'll put their new 46mpixel sensor into it. ;D

It's this kind of innovation that has lead me to put my DSLR gear up for sale.

the price is not too bad either.
1300 euro for a fullframe with 5 axis IBIS.

only question is, will i buy the A7 II for christmas or save the money for a A9? ;D

 

[Marsu42]

I recently picked up a Sony APS-C A6000 and confirmed that it can produce a (slightly) better image than my full frame 5D MkII. That's what six years of investment in sensor technologies can do for a company.

Sensor tech will keep evolving, but a larger sensor means less dof with the same f-stop - that'll keep "full frame" running even if "full" is just a strange reminder of the film days.

It's painful as I never thought I'd feel this way as I've been a loyal Canon user for over 40 years. I've invested too many $$$'s to go through this, but what choice do I have if what I can put to better use is small, light, powerful and doesn't have a mirror-box?

No doubt Canon will make the same switch sooner or later with DO lenses and their dual pixel af. They just don't want their current customers to know and keep on selling their mirror gear until the very last second. Imho there will be a market for maybe the next decade. A lot of people don't mind about heavy and large, it implies value and craftsmanship.

My guess is that there is a ~2 years time window for Canon do something about their product policy. If Sony keeps innovating at the same speed, about that time the difference to old-school dslr gear will be so large people might really jump ship rather than talk about it.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

What convinced me to jump ship was Sony's A6000 IQ and price.

For the cost of a single Canon 5D MkIII body I can buy 6 (SIX!) A6000's. Further, Sony gear offers a higher level of integration and more image making functions than Canon. Simply put, they're more flexible.

If reliability really is an issue... and yes, I use my equipment often enough that reliability issues will arise... well... at these kinds of prices... and with these kinds of small sizes and feather weights... I'll take two please!

One as a backup, right?

don't think it's good for Sony and especially their technical support department... may be they don't intend to have one: Your camera not working... we just release a new one, go and get it.

wishfull thinking?

... i think Sony is doing it right... they gather new customers.

 

[ChristopherMarkPerez]

About APS-C vs FF bokeh/DOF - a recently published portfolio of mine in Lenswork Magazine contains a number of images that I made with a small NEX5 and a Nikkor pre-Ai manual focus lens. The OOF rendition is so creamy smooth and luscious that people thought I might have used an old large format film camera and lens. I feel concerns about OOF rendition in APS-C vs FF may be overblown.

About heavy and large having perceived value - I immediately thought of Cadillac (or whoever it was) putting lead in their doors to give them a customer satisfying "clunk" when they closed. Between friends we call this the "impressing strangers" effect (yes, we're all nerdy engineering types). Bigger and heavier means "better", right?

About talking jumping ship - You can put me down in the column of people who already have jumped ship. The only thing I have left to sell is my 7D/100-400L birding kit. The 5D MkII/24-105L studio kit (and a bunch of other L glass) are already sold. And with the in-camera IS Sony just announced, I can see a 70-400 Sony kit on will soon be on it's way.

I'm only one small insignificant drop in a sea of millions of cameras sold each year, so I'm not tilting any balance any particular direction by doing what I'm doing. I just wish Canon gave me a compelling reason to stick around. The transition costs are significant.

Sensor tech will keep evolving, but a larger sensor means less dof with the same f-stop - that'll keep "full frame" running even if "full" is just a strange reminder of the film days...

... A lot of people don't mind about heavy and large, it implies value and craftsmanship...

... If Sony keeps innovating at the same speed, about that time the difference to old-school dslr gear will be so large people might really jump ship rather than talk about it.

 

[AvTvM]

... the weight, size, mass of DSLR gear becomes problematic I've wanted to downsize my gear but not downsize my image quality. I've proven to myself that this is possible with a mirrorless system.

Exactly!

I was just about ready to carve in and get yet another tired old Canon mirrorslapper (5D III) for my Canon glass, but now I'll definitely hold off any purchase until I see the Sony A9. It may well be 100% of what I am looking for:
* even better, new sensor (= way better than any Canon sensor)
* AF hopefully fully tracking capable
* probably next gen electronic viewfinder ("Retina"-resolution and even less lag)
* possibly a larger battery, holding more charge (500+ shots),
* most likely a better shutter without maddening vibrations; hopefully fully electronic global shutter with crazy X-Sync
* and possibly even eye control AF point selection http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-eye-tracking-af-coming-in-2014/ 8) , something Canon has abandoned for no apparaent reason

Sony lens range is also getting more attractive by the day ... that 16-35/4 sure is a nice lens, at least on par with the Canon. I'd be perfectly happy with the three f/4 zeiss zooms - 16-35/4, 24-70/4, 70-200/4 plus 55/1.8. Anything else can be had via adapter if needed ... e.g. tilt-shift. I don't use long teles anyway. Only open issue are my Canon 600EX-RT flashes ... let's hope Yongnuo,or Phottix will finally come to market with a little radio trigger that opens the RT-system for use with Sony bodies as well.


Mirrorslapper window is closing really fast now on Canon and Nikon. 8)

 

[Marsu42]

About heavy and large having perceived value - I immediately thought of Cadillac (or whoever it was) putting lead in their doors to give them a customer satisfying "clunk" when they closed. Between friends we call this the "impressing strangers" effect (yes, we're all nerdy engineering types). Bigger and heavier means "better", right?

This effect is not to be underestimated from a mass-marketing point of view - car manufacturers employ sound designers to make cheap cars sound cheap and vice versa. There are lots of customers out there who wouldn't want to buy a "gadget" even if the image quality and "objective" specs are better, and no doubts Canon will try to keep a large part of that old-school market share.

 

[meywd]

I don't see how you can compare this with the 5D III, the 6D yes, and its in the same price range, A7 II has more MP and new technology while the 6D will still perform better in low light.

 

[weixing]

About APS-C vs FF bokeh/DOF - a recently published portfolio of mine in Lenswork Magazine contains a number of images that I made with a small NEX5 and a Nikkor pre-Ai manual focus lens. The OOF rendition is so creamy smooth and luscious that people thought I might have used an old large format film camera and lens. I feel concerns about OOF rendition in APS-C vs FF may be overblown.

About heavy and large having perceived value - I immediately thought of Cadillac (or whoever it was) putting lead in their doors to give them a customer satisfying "clunk" when they closed. Between friends we call this the "impressing strangers" effect (yes, we're all nerdy engineering types). Bigger and heavier means "better", right?

About talking jumping ship - You can put me down in the column of people who already have jumped ship. The only thing I have left to sell is my 7D/100-400L birding kit. The 5D MkII/24-105L studio kit (and a bunch of other L glass) are already sold. And with the in-camera IS Sony just announced, I can see a 70-400 Sony kit on will soon be on it's way.

I'm only one small insignificant drop in a sea of millions of cameras sold each year, so I'm not tilting any balance any particular direction by doing what I'm doing. I just wish Canon gave me a compelling reason to stick around. The transition costs are significant.

Sensor tech will keep evolving, but a larger sensor means less dof with the same f-stop - that'll keep "full frame" running even if "full" is just a strange reminder of the film days...

... A lot of people don't mind about heavy and large, it implies value and craftsmanship...

... If Sony keeps innovating at the same speed, about that time the difference to old-school dslr gear will be so large people might really jump ship rather than talk about it.

Every woman is beautiful and every man is handsome when seen alone, but when you start comparing side by side, some woman are more beautiful and some man are more handsome unless you are very good in makeup.... ha ha ha

Anyway, I consider camera an expensive equipment and I usually only change once in many years unless there are some feature on the new model that I need, so for me, good technical support and after sales service is top priority. IMHO, Sony had many very good and interesting products, but their technical support is very bad (at least in my country)... the service center told me that they do not have power adapter and LCD screen replacement for a notebook that just run out of warranty, so cannot repair and this had happen not once, but quite a few times. For me, I won't buy any Sony product that cost more than double digits.

Have a nice day.

 

[AvTvM]

I don't see how you can compare this with the 5D III, the 6D yes, and its in the same price range, A7 II has more MP and new technology while the 6D will still perform better in low light.

... this is why I will wait for the Sony A9 to come. With new, even better sensor. 8)

 

[idene]

A machine like this will temp even me to try out a Sony body...

My first DSLR was a Sony A100 followed by a Sony A350.

Had it not been for the price of the lenses and scarcity of them, I'd have kept going as a Sony shooter. The photos straight out of the camera are amazing in comparison to Canon.

 

[TomazK]

I wonder what the IBIS will do to the battery life ?

 

[Marsu42]

I wonder what the IBIS will do to the battery life ?

It's not like Canon's in-lens IS has a separate battery, and I notice a big difference in battery drain with IS on or off. If it wasn't for Canon's hilarious original battery prices, this isn't a big deal unless you're away from an ac socket for more than a few days.