Portrait Lighting - Newbie

[TrumpetPower!]

You can do very well indoors with a couple of 580ex II.

The 580 is an excellent flash, but it only makes economic sense if you're mostly going to be using it in the hotshoe or in ultra-portable remote shooting scenarios. As soon as you take it off the camera, it becomes underpowered and overpriced.

It's about $500 at B&H. For that same $500, you can get Paul C. Buff's flagship Einstein studio flash, or you can get a pair of AilenBees B800 320 Ws heads -- any of which will put out <i>far</i> more light than the 580. Plus, the studio flashes are designed to work with any and every modifier imaginable, all the way from beauty dishes to seven-foot parabolic reflectors to even more massive arrays of octabanks to high-focus overhead stadium flashes for sports...with the 580, you're doing good to get decent results with a 10" softbox or an 18" umbrella.

Again, I'm not trying to put down the 580. It's an awesome hotshoe flash, and well worth every penny. It's just that it <i>is</i> a hotshoe flash, and it's no more a good idea to use it as a studio flash (or compare it with a studio flash) than it is to use a studio flash handheld at an event (or to do so and complain about the size, weight, and the length of the power cord). Horses for courses and all that....

Cheers,

b&

 

[paul13walnut5]

A used 580 mk1 is as good, or even a 430 or 420. The TTL will sort it out, or use group ratios.

Maybe studio flashes are overpriced given they can't be used on the camera on location, or do stroboscopic?

 

[revup67]

Wow..after days of reading this thread, gathering ideas from all that have contributed from Trumpet, Paul, Wicki, etc, reading upon reading especially gained much insight from the blogspot.strobist site, I had to fine tune my needs at the moment which are portrait (1-4 persons), mobility, flexibility and sturdy.

I think what I may go with (please object and steer me back on course if need be) is the following:
Using the 580 EXII as a Master on camera and having it trigger the YongNuo 565IIs Flashes x 2 of them acting as slaves - they from the reviews appear excellent and at $135 ea will do the trick. I believe (need help here) the 580 EXII can trigger both so I don't need a Strato II or King Wireless TTL Flash Trigger or ST-E2 (is this correct) that the 580 will be the transmitter. Two umbrellas with stands that can mount the 565 II's, weights to hold down the stands (recommendations for good quality stands with sturdy strobe holders would be appreciated). A back drop system such as http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/331732-REG/Interfit_COR756_Background_Support_System.html, clamps to hold the back drop, backdrop paper or muslin, gaffer tape. Also thinking about the Pixel TD583 which helps recycle the flash in 1.24 seconds vs. built in. Wondering though if this will also aid off camera slave flashes? Couldn't determine from tutorials or do I need one of these for each flash?

If I have more control with Soft Boxes than Umbrellas and more versatility then I would prefer to get soft boxes. Recommendation for brand, stands and strobe holders would be appreciated. I think I will hold off on wattage kits at the moment as that appears to be more studio single to 4 person portraits are the immediate need. Would like to generate business with the kit I assemble then migrate to a 800 w/s system that Wicki had recommended as my budget is around $500 - $750 for now. Thank you in advance again for all of your kind assistance.

 

[wickidwombat]

For the stands umbrellas backdrops etc I suggest going to an ebay seller called selens they have good quality stuff are helpfull and will replace damaged items too I've bought a lot of stuff from them and can confidently recommend them. Also get some spare umbrellas as they arr easy to break so just buy cheap ones don't get uber e/pensive lastolite gear or anything. Yongnous will be fine just remember you won't have hss. I woukd recomend geting a set of ebay povety radio triggers I got a set caled dslrkit 1 trigger and 3 recievers with hot shoes and umbrella holders built in cost 40 bucks good for playing around with manual flash and handy if you can't always have line of sight

 

[revup67]

Yongnous will be fine just remember you won't have hss. I woukd recomend geting a set of ebay povety radio triggers I got a set caled dslrkit 1 trigger and 3 recievers with hot shoes and umbrella holders built in cost 40 bucks good for playing around with manual flash and handy if you can't always have line of sight

I am ok without HSS especially since most of my shots will be indoors. I guess I still don't get the concept of how the 580 EXII can be a Master and trigger Slaves such as the YN 565 or even a pair of 430 II's yet I still need a triggering system. Sorry for the mundane question on the triggering system vs what the 580 EX II does. Have searched them out but unclear on the difference between the two as I thought if I have the 580 mounted on camera and enabled as a Master it would communicate with the the 565's or 430 ex's.

Update: spoke with Canon support on the 580 EXII - when it acts as a master on camera with other flashes as slaves Infrared (not radio of course) it should be fine within the 15 foot - 20 foot perimeter (not great through walls where radio prevails). Sounds like I might not need another trigger system (at least at this point) - thanks for the heads up on Selens - will check out their stuff

 

[wickidwombat]

The flashes use a built in ir system which needs line of sight so sometimes you can't or have difficukty getting that so having some cheap radio triggers as a backup is handy

 

[RLPhoto]

4x 600 EX RT's and accessories. Done. 8)

 

[Drizzt321]

Yongnous will be fine just remember you won't have hss. I woukd recomend geting a set of ebay povety radio triggers I got a set caled dslrkit 1 trigger and 3 recievers with hot shoes and umbrella holders built in cost 40 bucks good for playing around with manual flash and handy if you can't always have line of sight

I am ok without HSS especially since most of my shots will be indoors. I guess I still don't get the concept of how the 580 EXII can be a Master and trigger Slaves such as the YN 565 or even a pair of 430 II's yet I still need a triggering system. Sorry for the mundane question on the triggering system vs what the 580 EX II does. Have searched them out but unclear on the difference between the two as I thought if I have the 580 mounted on camera and enabled as a Master it would communicate with the the 565's or 430 ex's.

Update: spoke with Canon support on the 580 EXII - when it acts as a master on camera with other flashes as slaves Infrared (not radio of course) it should be fine within the 15 foot - 20 foot perimeter (not great through walls where radio prevails). Sounds like I might not need another trigger system (at least at this point) - thanks for the heads up on Selens - will check out their stuff

If you put umbrellas in between the slaves and the subject the master will be bouncing the IR off of, you might not get it to work. I never tried it, I just have been using the Strato II's. I'd go with the super cheap ebay RF triggers if you are going to use any light modifiers, they should work well enough most of the time.

 

[revup67]

Wicki and Drizz - thanks for the heads up on the radio triggers - the Strato II appear excellent by the reviews I have read. Just need to confirm that (1) 580 EXII (own) (1) 580EX (can borrow anytime) and (1)430EXII (to buy) or a YongNuo 565 will all work off the Strato's

 

[Drizzt321]

Wicki and Drizz - thanks for the heads up on the radio triggers - the Strato II appear excellent by the reviews I have read. Just need to confirm that (1) 580 EXII (own) (1) 580EX (can borrow anytime) and (1)430EXII (to buy) or a YongNuo 565 will all work off the Strato's

They will trigger (flash) with the Strato's, I'm certain of that, but you will not get ETTL, except if you have one mounted on the transmitter on top of your camera. You'll have to manually set the power on the remote speedlites, then shoot a shot to check exposures, and adjust as necessary. If you want wireless ETTL, that's a lot more expensive. You'll need to move up to the more expensive Phottix Odin's, or Pocket Wizards or one of the couple other brands out there.

 

[revup67]

Again loads of great info here - many thanks to all for opening my eyes in so many ways it was overwhelming and most enjoyable ...not to sound ambiguous but I've opted to go with the Elinchrom kit as my readings and conversations with various folks have caused my abandonment of the Master + 2 Slave option. I've been seeing time and time again it's best to have more light than less. BandH also stated that these Elichrom lights are very accurate with respect to color temps whereas many others are not. In taking all of the good info posted here I was able to talk with some intelligence with B and H and notched out what I believe to be a good quality mobile rig using AC power (DC later) So here's what BandH proposed. The PDF attached here was their proposal though I think I can do better on the Background System this is the one I am considering on Ebay not sure if anyone has tried this rig. Also within the quote you note umbrella, stand, hotshoe, etc this is for the 580 EX to run off a third Sky Port receiver also in the quote. I'll probably add a Snoot to this ensemble as well - thanks again to all contributors for all your help, guidance and input